"Red Wolf" restoration scandal

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Jett

Ten Pointer
I'll give them one thing, They have mastered how to milk funds for this con job.

The internet and the Freedom of Information Act is quickly bringing a close to this particular "con job". I trust history and law enforcement will treat this fiasco for exactly what it was, A CON JOB.
 
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Jett

Ten Pointer
USFWS and Red Woofs are headed to Bertie, Martin, Halifax and Northampton Counties

Roanoke River


The U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service is hosting a series of open house meetings to provide information and solicit input on the proposed expansion of the acquisition boundary of Roanoke River National Wildlife Refuge located in Bertie County, North Carolina.

The proposed expansion will help to achieve several goals: conservation of the most extensive bottomland hardwood forest on the East Coast, improvement of the region's water quality, and overall preservation of a functional landscape on the peninsula.

The proposed expansion area encompasses the floodplain of the Roanoke River in Bertie, Martin, Halifax, Northampton and Washington Counties.

Comments and questions may also be emailed to roanokerivernwr@fws.gov; mailed to U.S. Fish & Wildlife Service, P.O. Box 430, Windsor, NC 27983; or telephoned to 252-794-3808.

Public Open Houses

Monday, January 23rd

6:00 - 8:00 p.m.

Halifax County

TJ Davis Recreation Center

400 E. 6th Street, Roanoke Rapids, NC


Tuesday, January 24th

6:00 - 8:00 p.m.

Martin County

Martin County Extension Office

104 Kehukee Park Rd, Williamston, NC



Wednesday, January 25th

6:00 - 8:00p.m.

Bertie County

Windsor Community Building

201 S. Queen Street, Windsor, NC




Thursday, January 26th

6:00 - 8:00 p.m.

Northampton County

Northampton Recreation Center

9536 NC HWY 305, Jackson, NC



Friday, January 27th

6:00 - 8:00 p.m.

Washington County

Washington County Extension Office

128 E. Water Street, Plymouth, NC
 
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odie408

Ten Pointer
Closed nighttime coyote hunting coming to these counties and next your county. When and where will it stop? Maybe in about a week things will start to change.
 

Jett

Ten Pointer
Remember, these meetings are now taking place.

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USFWS and Red Woofs are headed to Bertie, Martin, Halifax and Northampton Counties

Roanoke River

The U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service is hosting a series of open house meetings to provide information and solicit input on the proposed expansion of the acquisition boundary of Roanoke River National Wildlife Refuge located in Bertie County, North Carolina.

The proposed expansion will help to achieve several goals: conservation of the most extensive bottomland hardwood forest on the East Coast, improvement of the region's water quality, and overall preservation of a functional landscape on the peninsula.

The proposed expansion area encompasses the floodplain of the Roanoke River in Bertie, Martin, Halifax, Northampton and Washington Counties.

Comments and questions may also be emailed to roanokerivernwr@fws.gov; mailed to U.S. Fish & Wildlife Service, P.O. Box 430, Windsor, NC 27983; or telephoned to 252-794-3808.

Public Open Houses

Monday, January 23rd

6:00 - 8:00 p.m.

Halifax County

TJ Davis Recreation Center

400 E. 6th Street, Roanoke Rapids, NC


Tuesday, January 24th

6:00 - 8:00 p.m.

Martin County

Martin County Extension Office

104 Kehukee Park Rd, Williamston, NC



Wednesday, January 25th

6:00 - 8:00p.m.

Bertie County

Windsor Community Building

201 S. Queen Street, Windsor, NC




Thursday, January 26th

6:00 - 8:00 p.m.

Northampton County

Northampton Recreation Center

9536 NC HWY 305, Jackson, NC



Friday, January 27th

6:00 - 8:00 p.m.

Washington County

Washington County Extension Office

128 E. Water Street, Plymouth, NC
 
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ron.sutherland2

Four Pointer
Here's a different perspective for your consideration:

http://www.newsobserver.com/opinion/op-ed/article136432798.html

By night, hunters would blast red wolves into extinction

By Ron Sutherland

Just before Christmas 2016, somewhere in the 110,000-acre Pocosin Lakes National Wildlife Refuge in eastern North Carolina, another red wolf was found shot to death. Whether the person who shot that wolf thought they were killing a coyote or knew they were shooting one of the world’s most endangered mammal species is hard to say for sure. What is for sure, though, is that the red wolf population has been shredded by bullets since 2012, to the point where at last count the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service only knew of 29 red wolves with functioning radio-collars.

The red wolf is our snow leopard, our giant panda, our Siberian tiger (actually all three of those species have much larger wild populations than red wolves). But rather than trying to save the red wolf, a few of the political leaders of North Carolina are actively trying to finish it off.

The latest salvo is an attempt by N.C. Sen. Bill Cook of Beaufort County to allow nighttime coyote hunting in the five counties that make up the red wolf recovery area. No one can tell a coyote from a red wolf just by looking down the beam of a spotlight. The proposed law, if it stood up to court challenges, which it won’t, would provide the perfect cover for anyone to go out shooting wolves under cover of darkness.

Why do people want to shoot red wolves and coyotes? The dominant industry in the red wolf recovery area is large-scale crop farming, and the wild canids pose little threat to corn and soybeans, especially in comparison to serious crop pests like white-tailed deer. But a multi-millionaire real estate developer has been working since 2012 to build up landowner resentment toward the red wolf program. He has met with some success by repeating one strident claim over and over: That the red wolf has caused the “greatest wildlife disaster in the history of North Carolina.”

Some landowners apparently are willing to buy into the notion that a carnivore like a wolf or coyote must be destroying their local deer and wild turkey populations. This sentiment is admirable in the sense that it demonstrates a conservation ethic for protecting game species from extinction. But it turns out to be misplaced.

Deer and wild turkey are both doing well across North Carolina, despite the presence of coyotes in all 100 counties by the year 2000. For example, 2013 provided the record statewide harvest of white-tailed deer, and in 2015 wild turkey populations hit record highs. Deer and turkey also remain quite abundant inside the red wolf recovery area – in fact the reported deer harvest in Tyrrell County (where the anti-wolf real estate developer has his hunting preserve) has increased 270 percent since the wolves were reintroduced in 1987!

In part to address landowner concerns over the impact of the wolves, Wildlands Network set up 23 motion-sensitive wildlife cameras at various points in Alligator River and Pocosin Lakes NWR’s, along with a few tracts of private land. Rather than tell you what we’ve seen, I’d rather people go to our Flickr site and judge for themselves. In the interest of transparency, we’re continuing to post all of the tens of thousands of wildlife photos online as we collect them: www.flickr.com /photos/redwolfreality /albums

The Albemarle Peninsula is still wild and expansive enough to support a robust hunting culture and a recovering population of red wolves. But the wolves will only bounce back if people stop shooting them, and that is going to take some serious landowner outreach and myth-busting on the part of the U.S. FWS and the conservation groups that want the wolf to survive.

Ron Sutherland, Ph.D., of Durham is a conservation scientist for the Wildlands Network, a national group dedicated to creating an environment “where humans co-exist in harmony with the land and its wild inhabitants.”

notes:

Dead wolf found in December:

http://www.newsobserver.com/news/local/crime/article123879694.html

NC WRC deer harvest data are available here:

http://www.ncwildlife.org/Portals/0...Reported Deer Harvest by County 1976-2015.pdf

NC turkey hit record high:

http://www.citizen-times.com/story/...urkey-population-hits-all-time-high/81104482/
 

shaggy

Old Mossy Horns
They shouldn't be here to begin with. They are not native to NC and they are a mixed breed of mutts anyways.
 
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DRS

Old Mossy Horns
Well, if those coyote hybrids don't stay on the refuge being shot is fair game. Besides as far as I know no one can tell the difference in a coyote/gray wolf and a red wolf.

There is no comparison of the coywolf, AKA red wolf, to the snow leopard, giant panda or Siberian tiger. I'm willing to bet the other three have a gene, specific to them.

The real myth is what some call a red wolf!

Show me genetic proof that the so called red wolf is a distinct species, there is no proof. I can believe that there is a candid that is going through an evolutionary change. This being the case, this candid is doing well and the population in running rampant and they don't need special protection.
 
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BR549

Twelve Pointer
Does the current coyote settlement violate the Commerce Clause?

Suppose, ABC Preditor Hunt Outfitters specializes in nighttime coyote hunts. ABC's lodge and leased lands are within the said 5 county area. A significant amount of ABC's revenue is derived from out of state consumers.

How would ABC interstate commerce nexus apply within the case law below?


Case Brief

Gibbs v. Babbitt case brief
214 F.3d 483 (4th Cir. 2000)

CASE SYNOPSIS: Plaintiffs appealed a judgment of the United States District Court for the Eastern District of North Carolina, at Greenville, upholding a Fish and Wildlife Service regulation as a valid exercise of federal power under the Commerce Clause.

FACTS: Plaintiffs, private landowners and counties, challenged the constitutionality of a Fish and Wildlife Service regulation that limited the taking of red wolves on private land. The district court upheld the regulation as a valid exercise of federal power under the Commerce Clause. This court affirmed, finding that the regulated activity substantially affected interstate commerce and because the regulation was part of a comprehensive federal program for the protection of endangered species. The court also found that the tourism the red wolves generated substantially affected interstate commerce. Further, the court found that the regulation of red wolf takings was also closely connected to a second interstate market -- scientific research. Finally, the court found that the taking of red wolves was connected to interstate markets for agricultural products and livestock. Judicial deference to the judgment of the democratic branches was therefore appropriate.

CONCLUSION: Judgment affirmed; the protection of the red wolf on both federal and private land substantially affected interstate commerce through tourism, trade, scientific research, and other potential economic activities.
 

Mike Noles aka conman

Administrator
Staff member
Contributor
With your ability to pull numbers, Ron, would you mind posting the up to date mortality figures due to being "shredded by bullets" vs all other mortality figures of the red wolf program? This would be inclusive of the kills of hundreds of "non viable specimen" in the captive program, the den kills and animals "put down" by the USFWS, road kills and animals lost to attrition. I would think (and this is just a guess, mind you) that the "shredded by bullets" kills would be less than 1% of the true red wolf mortality figures over the life of the program.

I posted what I think to be an appropriate response to your op ed in the N&O.
 

woodmoose

Administrator
Staff member
Contributor
harrumph,,,,you have to have facebook to post a reply,,,,,,,,,,I wanted to post the following,,,,,,,,

------------------------------------------

Mr Noles is correct, the issue with Red wolves is the interbreeding with coyotes, not hunters.

Mr Southerland - what are the numbers of "red-wolf/coyote hybrids" (as I expect 100% of these animals are) that are "shredded" by vehicles on the highways? Or are you blaming the drop in numbers solely on those "shredded" by firearms? Lets see the numbers on ALL mortality before blaming any one source. Or would that hurt your agenda?

You know, I have hunted a lot of animals in my time, none where "shredded" - but then I expect you were going for the sensationalistic horror of the visual and not actual facts.

When a species can't sustain itself due to interbreeding, is it really a species? Or were the original red wolves from coastal Louisiana/Texas actully mixed breeds themselves? Kind of like a "labradoddle" that was all the rage a few years ago.​


guess I need to look at doing a facebook account if I want to participate in such,,,,,,,,,,,,or not
 

Mike Noles aka conman

Administrator
Staff member
Contributor
Another thing that sticks like a thorn, Ron. Why do the pseudo wolf advocates always post pictures of captive animals in their op eds and fund raisers? Could it be that the ones in the wild look too much like the coyote hybrid that they are and are not representative of what y'all want to "save"?
 

BR549

Twelve Pointer
"Red Wolf" restoration scandal

Last year NCWRC was in the process of a "Human Dimension" Study to assess the "Social" acceptance of the Red Wolf Program...

This included surveys, interviewing the public within the 5 county area.

When we inquired why the study survey being used was totally silent on the prescribed den hunting scheme (adaptive management) things got very quiet.

We further suggested that unless the public is aware of these secret extermination programs with the first being housed within the Zoos and the second being carried out by the Red Wolf Den Hunting team NCWRC's study would be of no value.

Simply put and to Mikes point, the Wolf Constituency has little idea of the hundreds of newborn culls that have been exterminated within walls of Point Defiance Zoo and their Captive Zoo Partners.

Then add the large number of canids the Red Wolf field team has physically removed from their dens and exterminated, carrying out the pup removal management plan.

When we take a step back... Is this not exactly what the Animal Welfare Institute, Defenders of Wildlife and the Red Wolf Coalition lawsuit has asked of a Federal Judge, by way of ordering USFWS to resume its recently halted Den Hunting - Pup Euthanization Scheme?

It's the facts that prove the Wolf Advocates own Zoo mentors & USFWS Staff that are the ones whom have long held the lead in human inflicted mortality within the Red Wolf Program.

This is well covered and expressly documented in books written by Wolf advocates on the Red Wolf program.



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Buxndiverdux

Old Mossy Horns
Mr. Sutherland,

Your argument would have much more value if the DNA of the introductory population of animals was actually pure bred Red Wolf. The DNA of the captive animals that started this program decades ago were part coyote. The ESA has no business protecting hybrid species.

The Red Wolf was declared extinct in the wild in 1980. Mr. Sutherland, there is no pure bred Red Wolf left to protect.

If you want to protect the coyote, that is your right, but it does not deserve federal funds or the protection of the ESA or USFWS.
 
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Wanchese

Twelve Pointer
Since he mentioned their trail cams pics............. How is it that Ron and company are allowed to clear brush and small trees in front of the cameras, screw camera lock boxes to the trees and leave cameras on a NWR?

If I cut a tree or insert a metal object into a tree, I'm breaking the law. I can't leave treestands or other hunting equipment on the refuge and I even pay for a permit to be able to hunt there.


Ron, you wouldn't break the law would you?
 
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BR549

Twelve Pointer
"Red Wolf" restoration scandal

Wanchese - On that note, it's denning season and Lynn stated SD Cards went missing from trail cameras on private land just last week.

It seems private landowners only have this issue during denning season.

Strong argument that the Plantation (Refuge) Managers will never be satisfied with the size of their sandbox!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
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BR549

Twelve Pointer
"Red Wolf" restoration scandal

I agree with Ron on this, the old school FWS did the best they could given the science circa 1968 - late 1970's.

It's during 78'-79' that an assumptive range map was created (quote) "with no conclusive evidence" to support the Red Wolf ever existed within the bounds of NC.

Then came the 1989, USFWS taxpayer funded DNA Study with its "Sole Intent" to determine if this red canid was a listable under section 3 of the ESA.

After it was published in 1991 and given the FWS's previous listing decisions it was clear, the Red Wolf was little more than a selectively bred coyote and was not listable under the Act. That is the exact day this experiment morphed into a "Fraud" and further defines when and who intentionally suppressed these facts.

When USFWS employees direct an independent scientist to specifically wordsmith their intellectual work product it crosses the line in gross fashion.

It was likely viewed as no big deal... Until, Al Gores famous invention came along.

Finally, while camera surveys are one tool in the box, we must further quantify the deer harvest calculations. Key factors include how many licensed individuals "participated" per county during those years.

Simply using harvest numbers provides no quantifiable depth in assessing the abundance of deer or lack there of.








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BR549

Twelve Pointer
"Red Wolf" restoration scandal

How does a Red Wolf Program with the documented Culling of 1000 + Coyotes, Hybrids and Pups have any public support, all to restore whats been recently defined as a wild population of 29 known Coyotes (Wayne 2016 DNA Study) not to mention how it passes the Human Dimension Test?

Inventing, to only later Euthanize for Profit, just has a bad ring.

"This is a case of well-intentioned biologists going back several decades, trying to bring back a species they believe existed," says Gary Mowad, a former deputy chief of law enforcement for the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service.

"But it turns out now the science clearly indicates red wolves from the very beginning were nothing more than a hybrid between a coyote and a grey wolf. This animal is not an endangered species. This animal is a hybrid and should be delisted immediately."
 
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NCST8GUY

Frozen H20 Guy
MR Sutherland

Are there any pictures of these "wolves" carrying their catch? Any cameras posted near these dens?

The reason I ask is, when hunting in Canada years ago, the worker explained the wolf history and it's impact in that area. He told us how wolves were once protected, but years later, when we arrived, if we wanted, would could buy 1, won, one, wolf tag per hunter. He showed us the early type trail cam pics of a cam posted very close to a den. Over the course of one spring, either 26 or 27 days out of a 31 day period, was a picture of a wolf carrying a white tail fawn in it's mouth to the den.

So I'm curious, were any of your cameras set up near a den? If so, were ANY of the "wolves" catches photographed? If not, why not? Are you not curious about what what these creatures bring back to the den?
 
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NCST8GUY

Frozen H20 Guy
NCST8GUY,

I assume you are referring to something like this?

Wolfwithfawn-2_1.jpg

Yes Jett,

In Canada, they spoke of (and produced) photographs (film shots) very similar to that (posted) near one single wolf den.

I would imagine the Red Wolf folks have placed cameras in/around known den areas, as that would be a great scientific location. I imagine those pics would show the breeders bringing back their catch. I imagine those pics would be highly helpful to their cause, OR, highly hurtful. I imagine there is a reason we don't see those pictures, that we all know exist(ed).


I can only assume that since we have photographic proof that yotes feed on deer fawns in the spring, that a yote/wolf hybrid would also. And considering yote/hybrid's larger body size, a yote/hybrid would feed on more deer fawns than a pure yote over the same time period.

Unless science is wrong?
 
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Mike Noles aka conman

Administrator
Staff member
Contributor
The science is right, Brian. The beauty of finding dens is not only for photo opportunities. It's hands down the best opportunity to hunt them. There's no other time that they can be patterned so simply as when pups are whelped and hungry.
 

NCST8GUY

Frozen H20 Guy
The science is right, Brian. The beauty of finding dens is not only for photo opportunities. It's hands down the best opportunity to hunt them. There's no other time that they can be patterned so simply as when pups are whelped and hungry.


So, are there pictures which exist near wolf dens? Were cameras placed near den's on purpose? Were cameras placed away from dens on purpose?

Is the purpose of the camera's pics linked to capture the "wolves" in their "natural state"? or to capture "nature" in that given area, at that give time, in her "natural state"? Or to suggest nature stays proliferation even with the introduction of a new, non essential invasive species?

MR Sutherland. Do you mind please describing/explaining the purpose of the cameras you have provided links to?

Was The purpose of the camera's location what you expected/hope to capture? What results were you/they hoping/happy to see? Were "wolf dens" considered "off limits" for cameras? If so, why? If not, were any placed outside of "wolf" dens? If so, are those pictures available? If so, are they available without any deletions (ie; 001-1000 without interruptions)?

Are "wolf" dens so hard to find that friends of them can't find/photograph them? Or are they easy to find but friends of them don't want them photographed? Are they photographed or not?

With all due respect sir,
When dealing with Federal Fund$, shouldn't EVERY aspect be taken into consideration? Shouldn't all $ be treated as equal? Is Rhode Island Federal Tax $ less important or more important that NC Tax $
 
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GSOHunter

Twelve Pointer
Contributor
So, are there pictures which exist near wolf dens? Were cameras placed near den's on purpose? Were cameras placed away from dens on purpose?

Is the purpose of the camera's pics linked to capture the "wolves" in their "natural state"? or to capture "nature" in that given area, at that give time, in her "natural state"? Or to suggest nature stays proliferation even with the introduction of a new, non essential invasive species?

MR Sutherland. Do you mind please describing/explaining the purpose of the cameras you have provided links to?

Was The purpose of the camera's location what you expected/hope to capture? What results were you/they hoping/happy to see? Were "wolf dens" considered "off limits" for cameras? If so, why? If not, were any placed outside of "wolf" dens? If so, are those pictures available? If so, are they available without any deletions (ie; 001-1000 without interruptions)?

Are "wolf" dens so hard to find that friends of them can't find/photograph them? Or are they easy to find but friends of them don't want them photographed? Are they photographed or not?

With all due respect sir,
When dealing with Federal Fund$, shouldn't EVERY aspect be taken into consideration? Shouldn't all $ be treated as equal? Is Rhode Island Federal Tax $ less important or more important that NC Tax $
I predict the next Ron sighting will be when he gets published again in the N&O. He probably gets a nice bump each time he posts an article here.
 
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