440 yds.....

specialk

Twelve Pointer
had a rabbit go straight run from the jump 440 yds before turning yesterday according to the garmin......if I hadn't seen the rabbit I'd of swore it was some off game.....
 

shadycove

Twelve Pointer
We may be seeing an evolutionary change in the way rabbits run when jumped. Blame it on feral dogs/cats, coyotes and hawks/owls and timber practices.
Think back to the days when we had plenty of small game [if you are old enough], we also had lots of fox and some hawks/owls but there were very few compared to the numbers we have now due to everyone having a gun in every vehicle used for shooting every "chicken hawk"that was seen while driving. Most folks had chickens and also hunted small game for food and any hawk seen was in danger. Rabbits could run circles and be OK.
Nowadays, birds of prey are off limits and they take huge numbers of small game. And due in part to timber practices, they can watch and fly up and down rows of mature pines easily. Good hunting for them.
Same thing applies to coyotes since they do better in the open when after prey and they run to eat so they do not quit a track often, either in the open or in a cutout. Coyotes also run in packs and will circle and post to cut game off. They take more deer than rabbits but they use the rows to take both. If it gets too thick they will quit but not often IME. In briars, a fox will do much better than a coyote but the coyotes have thinned them considerably too.
Sorry for being long but the take-away is.
The rabbits that run straight instead of circling live longer than the rabbits that circle. And evolution says that the ones that live longer breed longer and pass on the straight running gene to their offspring who pass it on and on. The rabbits that circle get eaten.
Just a theory, what do y'all think.
 
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darkthirty

Old Mossy Horns
If you killed it, did you notice if was a buck or doe?? We used to have some several out of hearing races late in the season and most of the time when we killed’em, they be buck rabbits. We always thought breeding season had something to do with it.
 

beagleman26

Four Pointer
We may be seeing an evolutionary change in the way rabbits run when jumped. Blame it on feral dogs/cats, coyotes and hawks/owls and timber practices.
Think back to the days when we had plenty of small game [if you are old enough], we also had lots of fox and some hawks/owls but there were very few compared to the numbers we have now due to everyone having a gun in every vehicle used for shooting every "chicken hawk"that was seen while driving. Most folks had chickens and also hunted small game for food and any hawk seen was in danger. Rabbits could run circles and be OK.
Nowadays, birds of prey are off limits and they take huge numbers of small game. And due in part to timber practices, they can watch and fly up and down rows of mature pines easily. Good hunting for them.
Same thing applies to coyotes since they do better in the open when after prey and they run to eat so they do not quit a track often, either in the open or in a cutout. Coyotes also run in packs and will circle and post to cut game off. They take more deer than rabbits but they use the rows to take both. If it gets too thick they will quit but not often IME. In briars, a fox will do much better than a coyote but the coyotes have thinned them considerably too.
Sorry for being long but the take-away is.
The rabbits that run straight instead of circling live longer than the rabbits that circle. And evolution says that the ones that live longer breed longer and pass on the straight running gene to their offspring who pass it on and on. The rabbits that circle get eaten.
Just a theory, what do y'all think.

I’ve also noticed that rabbits seem to move quicker than they used to. We very rarely “kick” one up anymore. It’s like they hear you coming and leave the bed way before you or the dogs get there. My theory is coyotes and foxes on this too.
 

specialk

Twelve Pointer
We may be seeing an evolutionary change in the way rabbits run when jumped. Blame it on feral dogs/cats, coyotes and hawks/owls and timber practices.
Think back to the days when we had plenty of small game [if you are old enough], we also had lots of fox and some hawks/owls but there were very few compared to the numbers we have now due to everyone having a gun in every vehicle used for shooting every "chicken hawk"that was seen while driving. Most folks had chickens and also hunted small game for food and any hawk seen was in danger. Rabbits could run circles and be OK.
Nowadays, birds of prey are off limits and they take huge numbers of small game. And due in part to timber practices, they can watch and fly up and down rows of mature pines easily. Good hunting for them.
Same thing applies to coyotes since they do better in the open when after prey and they run to eat so they do not quit a track often, either in the open or in a cutout. Coyotes also run in packs and will circle and post to cut game off. They take more deer than rabbits but they use the rows to take both. If it gets too thick they will quit but not often IME. In briars, a fox will do much better than a coyote but the coyotes have thinned them considerably too.
Sorry for being long but the take-away is.
The rabbits that run straight instead of circling live longer than the rabbits that circle. And evolution says that the ones that live longer breed longer and pass on the straight running gene to their offspring who pass it on and on. The rabbits that circle get eaten.
Just a theory, what do y'all think.


spot on post.....it's been that way too down here for many years.....when I moved down here in the mid 80's I coon hunted a lot.....over the years the tree biz has wiped out hardwoods and replaced with pines......result was lost habitat for coon and more for rabbit....I got rid of my coon dogs and started rabbit hunting...
 

specialk

Twelve Pointer
If you killed it, did you notice if was a buck or doe?? We used to have some several out of hearing races late in the season and most of the time when we killed’em, they be buck rabbits. We always thought breeding season had something to do with it.

yes, and this time of year we will sometimes jump 2 at the same time....split the pack often.....we killed it but I didn't look to see the sex....
 

nchunt101

Ten Pointer
I’ve also noticed that rabbits seem to move quicker than they used to. We very rarely “kick” one up anymore. It’s like they hear you coming and leave the bed way before you or the dogs get there. My theory is coyotes and foxes on this too.

Same here. I am far from an expert on rabbit hunting but from what I have seen this year they run a a lot farther and faster than when I went as a kid.
 

sjohn

Button Buck
The swamp rabbit (Sylvilagus aquaticus). The largest of the cotton tails. Males get over 5 lbs easily. We jump several a year woodcock hunting as they share some of the same riparian swamp habitat as woodcock. I've had dogs run them down and catch them in the shallow water. I have also had one run from my dog and run right to me and I watched it crouch down behind a log in the middle of the water. It got so low in the water, only it's head and top of the back was sticking out of the water. Poor rabbit died of lead poisoning. the only thing about shooting a cane cutter is carrying him around for the rest of the hunt. We usually hang them in a tree and pick them up on the way back out of the woods. Did I say they easily go over 5 lbs! One other difference, the cane cutter breads in january to march and only has 2-3 per clutch. I was borrowing a friends lab one woodcock season (late January) when I was without a dog and she dug up a nest of two hairless cane cutters. It was that event that prompted the little bit of research to find out more about the species. Great eating rabbit! To me, they are a byproduct of woodcock hunting and I'll shoot one anytime I have an opportunity to shoot one. Like I said, they are very good eating.
 

hoyt85

Six Pointer
We may be seeing an evolutionary change in the way rabbits run when jumped. Blame it on feral dogs/cats, coyotes and hawks/owls and timber practices.
Think back to the days when we had plenty of small game [if you are old enough], we also had lots of fox and some hawks/owls but there were very few compared to the numbers we have now due to everyone having a gun in every vehicle used for shooting every "chicken hawk"that was seen while driving. Most folks had chickens and also hunted small game for food and any hawk seen was in danger. Rabbits could run circles and be OK.
Nowadays, birds of prey are off limits and they take huge numbers of small game. And due in part to timber practices, they can watch and fly up and down rows of mature pines easily. Good hunting for them.
Same thing applies to coyotes since they do better in the open when after prey and they run to eat so they do not quit a track often, either in the open or in a cutout. Coyotes also run in packs and will circle and post to cut game off. They take more deer than rabbits but they use the rows to take both. If it gets too thick they will quit but not often IME. In briars, a fox will do much better than a coyote but the coyotes have thinned them considerably too.
Sorry for being long but the take-away is.
The rabbits that run straight instead of circling live longer than the rabbits that circle. And evolution says that the ones that live longer breed longer and pass on the straight running gene to their offspring who pass it on and on. The rabbits that circle get eaten.
Just a theory, what do y'all think.

We've been saying the same things for the past several years. Back up 15 years ago, if you jumped a rabbit you weren't likely to move too far and kill him when he circled. Heck that's how I learned to rabbit hunt. As long as you have some power to push him it was usually pretty quick Well, now we have plenty of power, some pretty good killers and we'll still have a few every time we turn out make you think its some other critter besides a rabbit. Two Saturdays ago we ran two rabbits before lunch for a total of 7 miles according to the Garmin's. Was it a little thick....yes. However, neither one never really circled......Now, when we jump a rabbit we all take off to a likely cut off point for when he finally does decide to "turn around", not "circle" back. Used to we'd stand around the jump point. It was fun and relaxing. Now, we and the dogs are worn out at the end of the day.
 

hoyt85

Six Pointer
I'll also add this. In the past 4 weeks we've jumped 1 coyote and I've personally had 3 gray foxes come by me while the dogs were running about 75 yards away.
 

darkthirty

Old Mossy Horns
Y’all keep saying “swamp rabbit” sylvilagus aquaticus. Are you actually referring to the marsh rabbit (sylvilagus palustris)???

Back in the day, I rabbit hunted pretty much all over the state and our little club killed rabbits in dang near every corner of the state and all places in between. We killed tons off cottontails and marsh rabbits aka swamp rabbits, bluebellies, sliders but we never killed a true swamp rabbit. They aren’t native to North Carolina. Now I’ve seen true “swamp rabbits” in west TN and there’s no doubt what you are looking at when you see one. There freaking huge. Look just like a cottontail but about 4x’s bigger. The “marsh rabbits” kinda run like a rat (hence the name “sliders”) and have bluish gray fur on their bellies and instead of a cottontail, they have a triangle shaped pointed tail. There’s just no historical evidence to ever support true swamp rabbits being in NC.
 

woodmoose

Administrator
Staff member
Contributor
I don't know men, we've got plenty of yotes and foxes and the rabbits here run tight

Now I've run some (ft Bragg comes to mind in the old Rockefeller place where I had one run wide like that

But pretty sure your not seeing that rapid of evolution in habits across the species from yotes
 

sjohn

Button Buck
http://www.dnr.sc.gov/cwcs/pdf/swamprabbit.pdf

I don't hunt rabbits but enjoy the conversation as we jump at least one or two rabbits on most woodcock hunts. We shoot at them too.

I predominately hunt woodcock in Oconee, Pickens, and Anderson Counties of South Carolina. This area according to the SCDNR fact sheet on S. aquaticus does hold this species. However, the fact sheet also says they are rare and imperiled. This would not be my observation of the population but I don't know the definition of rare or imperiled. I don't know when the fact sheet was published but I know about 5 or more years ago word got out in the research community me and my buddy were shooting cane cutters. They contacted us and wanted to find out more about where so they could get pictures of them. They could not believe it was indeed aquaticus. They just put a carrot and maybe a little lettuce on the ground and set up a camera. If it wasn't the first night it was the second night they got pictures. They were shocked. I'll see if I can dig up and post them. I never heard anything more about a population or habitat study, but I never looked for one either. They truly are in the three counties I mentioned here in upstate south carolina and they truly are 5 plus lbs, hence my earlier comment about hanging them in a tree and picking them up on the way out of the woods. You just hate to shoot one at the turn around. One rabbit and three woodcock doesn't seem like a lot of weight but wearing hip waders and walking miles of riparian habitat does work on an older back.
 

darkthirty

Old Mossy Horns
http://www.dnr.sc.gov/cwcs/pdf/swamprabbit.pdf

I don't hunt rabbits but enjoy the conversation as we jump at least one or two rabbits on most woodcock hunts. We shoot at them too.

I predominately hunt woodcock in Oconee, Pickens, and Anderson Counties of South Carolina. This area according to the SCDNR fact sheet on S. aquaticus does hold this species. However, the fact sheet also says they are rare and imperiled. This would not be my observation of the population but I don't know the definition of rare or imperiled. I don't know when the fact sheet was published but I know about 5 or more years ago word got out in the research community me and my buddy were shooting cane cutters. They contacted us and wanted to find out more about where so they could get pictures of them. They could not believe it was indeed aquaticus. They just put a carrot and maybe a little lettuce on the ground and set up a camera. If it wasn't the first night it was the second night they got pictures. They were shocked. I'll see if I can dig up and post them. I never heard anything more about a population or habitat study, but I never looked for one either. They truly are in the three counties I mentioned here in upstate south carolina and they truly are 5 plus lbs, hence my earlier comment about hanging them in a tree and picking them up on the way out of the woods. You just hate to shoot one at the turn around. One rabbit and three woodcock doesn't seem like a lot of weight but wearing hip waders and walking miles of riparian habitat does work on an older back.


There is historical data for aquaticus in upstate SC. I was referring to NC. The ones I’ve encountered in west TN, I’d hate to know I had to tote more the 2-3 in a game vest. Hahaha. Me personally, they are as quality of tablefare as the cottontailis either. Ones I eat were some kinda chewy and tough.
 

darkthirty

Old Mossy Horns
I don't know men, we've got plenty of yotes and foxes and the rabbits here run tight

Now I've run some (ft Bragg comes to mind in the old Rockefeller place where I had one run wide like that

But pretty sure your not seeing that rapid of evolution in habits across the species from yotes

I agree with you. I don’t understand how predators would make a rabbit run further. Coyotes, foxes and cats are not gonna “run” a rabbit. If they jump one, they may give chase for couple seconds, but it benefits them in no way to burn energy and calories “running” a rabbit. They’re more into the stalk and pounce or catch’em in their bed. Rabbits running further just does not jive with how these predators capture their prey. Running further actually increases their chances of being caught.
 

specialk

Twelve Pointer
ok, here is a photo of what they call down here a canecutter-swamp rabbit-buck rabbit.....the one on the far right....his tail is all the way on the backside of the tailgate and his nose is at the edge or top....compare to the other rabbits and you can tell....they also leave a lot bigger pellet on the ground and a lot bigger pile.....
 

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sjohn

Button Buck
Right about the pellet speciak. You can always tell when there is a can cutter around because there will be larger almost flattened droppings on top of all the logs laying in the swamp or very wet areas. I need to pull some pictures. One hunt I walked out with a cane cutter, one or two wood ducks, and two woodcock. The dog ran down the wood ducks, they had been wounded by water fowl hunters that morning. This was the same dog that ran down the cane cutter. I will look for pics and post.
 

sjohn

Button Buck
Looked for pics on my computer and not there. That means they were taken more years ago then I recall. IMG_3039.jpg

But hear is one of a mixed bag hunt from last year. Started as a dove hunt but jumped a covey of quail walking into dove field. Hunted quail for 15 minutes, then had the dove hunt and ended up the day with a limit of woodcock. That is how we do it in South Carolina!
 

Triggernosis

Ten Pointer
I agree with you. I don’t understand how predators would make a rabbit run further. Coyotes, ......are not gonna “run” a rabbit. ......
Why would you think that coyotes wouldn't run a rabbit? They're canines, just like beagles, right? Seems to me they'd run them just like beagles, except at 4x the speed since they're about 4X taller.
 
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