Citation for duck hunting from drifting motorboat while motor is not running?

Greg in Cary

Twelve Pointer
Has anyone on this board heard of anyone being cited for duck hunting from motorboat while it's drifting downstream with the motor shut off?

The only reference in the regs from the NC Wildlife Commission are Federal regulations which state:

From or by means of any motorboat or other craft having a
motor attached, or any sailboat, unless the motor has been
completely shut off and/or the sails furled, and its progress
there from has ceased except in pursuit of wounded waterfowl
in special sea duck areas;

Until today, I was only aware of the regs from NC Wildlife Commission. Did you know that there are General Statutes from the state general assembly?

There is a similar entry in the general statutes:
§ 113-291.1. Manner of taking wild animals and wild birds
(b) No wild animals or wild birds may be taken:
(1) From or with the use of any vehicle; vessel, other than one manually
propelled; airplane; or other conveyance except that the use of vehicles and
vessels is authorized:
a. As hunting stands, subject to the following limitations. No wild animal
or wild bird may be taken from any vessel under sail, under power, or
with the engine running or while still in motion from such propulsion.

No wild animal or wild bird may be taken from any vehicle if it is in
motion
, the engine is running, or the passenger area of the vehicle is
occupied. The prohibition of occupying the passenger area of a vehicle
does not apply to a disabled individual whose mobility is restricted.

It seems clear to me that in both of these cases the law refers to boats in motion from propulsion (either motor or sail).
Has anyone here heard of a case where just drifting downstream, unpowered, would violate this regulation?
 
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bryguy

Old Mossy Horns
Has anyone on this board heard of anyone being cited for duck hunting from motorboat while it's drifting downstream with the motor shut off?

The only reference in the regs from the NC Wildlife Commission are Federal regulations which state:



Until today, I was only aware of the regs from NC Wildlife Commission. Did you know that there are General Statutes from the state general assembly?

There is a similar entry in the general statutes:


It seems clear to me that in both of these cases the law refers to boats in motion from propulsion (either motor or sail).
Has anyone here heard of a case where just drifting downstream, unpowered, would violate this regulation?

No but there are numerous counties that have local ordinances that prohibit this for both ducks and deer


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

nccatfisher

Old Mossy Horns
Contributor
If you have the motor up or unattached usually you are good to go, if you have it down but just off you are playing with fire.
 

Bailey Boat

Twelve Pointer
Seems like your warden may have gotten up on the wrong side of the bed that morning.... OR...... he observed your actions beforehand and wrote accordingly....

I have seen a warden sit and glass me for over 2 hours one day before he gave up and moved along. If nothing else He was persistent...
 

NCGunDude

Eight Pointer
That's the first I've heard of any ordinances against it. Which counties??

It's called floating, but I can see where it might cause a problem. Navigable waters are protected by riparian rights, meaning the public may not be restricted from navigating upon them. Property rights end at the mean high water mark. If you shoot anything above that line, you're poaching.

In England, these laws don't apply, and there's a case where an Earl claims the fish in the river, and doesn't want anyone catching them. Let them eat cake, I suppose.
 

chevync20

Twelve Pointer
I always questioned this when it comes in terms of cripples. I believe the book also makes note of taking measures to ensure the game is taken and not wounded. I have witnessed numerous chase cripples in the sound, not under power, but in a boat that is moving. So many ways to interpret all these rules and seem to be a direct correlation of what the warden feels like that day. Certainly a gray area in my eyes.
 

Downeast

Twelve Pointer
I believe it is now legal to pursue a cripple with a motor boat. But I need to check the regs again to make sure.

Oops, only in sea duck areas I believe.
 
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stanley

Four Pointer
Did you get a ticket ? If so how is the violation written on the ticket. What are you charged with?
 

Greg in Cary

Twelve Pointer
Did you get a ticket ? If so how is the violation written on the ticket. What are you charged with?

It wasn't me and I wasn't there.

The way it was communicated to me is that they were pulling the boat out of the water when the warden came over and chatted them up. He saw their ducks but no decoys and asked them about their hunt. The hunter, who I know to be ethical and careful to observe all relevant laws, told them they motored up river, cut the motor and then drifted downstream hoping to jump ducks.

When cited, the hunter showed them the NC regs and the warden responded with "yeah but the general statue says..." and hit them with the "...in motion" clause.

The worst part is the hunter is local law enforcement and this class 2 misdemeanor can cost him his LE license and his job.
 

Mr.Gadget

Old Mossy Horns
It wasn't me and I wasn't there.

The way it was communicated to me is that they were pulling the boat out of the water when the warden came over and chatted them up. He saw their ducks but no decoys and asked them about their hunt. The hunter, who I know to be ethical and careful to observe all relevant laws, told them they motored up river, cut the motor and then drifted downstream hoping to jump ducks.

When cited, the hunter showed them the NC regs and the warden responded with "yeah but the general statue says..." and hit them with the "...in motion" clause.

The worst part is the hunter is local law enforcement and this class 2 misdemeanor can cost him his LE license and his job.

That sucks. Hope he is able to be cleared if no wrong doing.

The state laws and rules for hunting are a PITA.
You need to look in so many places, pages and so on just to get part.

Sure would be better for the regs to have sections that cover 100% rules and laws on the given type of hunting.
The way it is now you need to look at several sections.
 

Downeast

Twelve Pointer
a. As hunting stands, subject to the following limitations. No wild animal
or wild bird may be taken from any vessel under sail, under power, or
with the engine running or while still in motion from such propulsion.
No wild animal or wild bird may be taken from any vehicle if it is in
motion, the engine is running, or the passenger area of the vehicle is
occupied. The prohibition of occupying the passenger area of a vehicle
does not apply to a disabled individual whose mobility is restricted.

The motor was not running. Once the vessel lost motion from the motor it was simply drifting. Hundreds of folks drift creeks and rivers for ducks every year. Most paddle or row small jonboats or canoes and I do not believe paddling or rowing constitutes a vessel under "power". If it did then it would have to be registered. The WEO did not read the statute correctly. He is wrong and any good lawyer will chew him up in court. Unfortunately the defendant will lose a lot of money defending himself. Maybe the defendant can file a complaint afterwards or pursue it in civil court for legal costs. At least make the WEO hire a lawyer and dish out some cash himself.
 

Soilman

Old Mossy Horns
Contributor
I've thought for a long time that a lot of our hunting laws/regulations are poorly written and can be ambiguous in meaning. I *think* the intent of this law is that it is illegal to take game from any vessel that is under "motion" from mechanical means or from any sail powered vessel. The way it is written, someone can interpret it to mean "under motion of any kind".
If it is like you said above, I think I'd be seeing them in court. That "in motion" sounds like it could be interpreted to apply to ANYBODY hunting from a canoe, kayak, or creek boat. Drifting is drifting whether you have a motor or not. Secondly, I would argue that as a hunter, I followed the guidelines set forth by the WRC regulations. If it isn't listed in the WRC regulations, or the regulations do not reference the general statutes, then I should not be responsible to it. A man shouldn't have to have a law degree to hunt!
 

Downeast

Twelve Pointer
Ha! When I was a kid the pamphlet that covered hunting folded up and fit easily in your shirt pocket. The present day recreational activity known as sport hunting and fishing has become one large incomprehensible bloated bureaucracy. I actually told a youngster the other day that if he went through life never having picked up a fishing pole or sat in a deer stand he would be better off. It's just not worth the risk of getting a criminal record while trying to have fun. You can go out and play a round of golf (with a cold beer in hand no less!) and not have to worry about the Golf Police chasing you down and ruining your life. Or, join a shooting club and bust clays or ring steel on a weekend.

This case is a prime example. The guy might lose his job over a duck! Duh...
 

Greg in Cary

Twelve Pointer
a. As hunting stands, subject to the following limitations. No wild animal
or wild bird may be taken from any vessel under sail, under power, or
with the engine running or while still in motion from such propulsion.
No wild animal or wild bird may be taken from any vehicle if it is in
motion, the engine is running, or the passenger area of the vehicle is
occupied. The prohibition of occupying the passenger area of a vehicle
does not apply to a disabled individual whose mobility is restricted.

The motor was not running. Once the vessel lost motion from the motor it was simply drifting. Hundreds of folks drift creeks and rivers for ducks every year. Most paddle or row small jonboats or canoes and I do not believe paddling or rowing constitutes a vessel under "power". If it did then it would have to be registered. The WEO did not read the statute correctly. He is wrong and any good lawyer will chew him up in court. Unfortunately the defendant will lose a lot of money defending himself. Maybe the defendant can file a complaint afterwards or pursue it in civil court for legal costs. At least make the WEO hire a lawyer and dish out some cash himself.

I know. I've read articles on the NC Wildlife magazines about "jump hunting ducks" in just this fashion.
 

stanley

Four Pointer
There is no way this ticket should have been written if the WEO did not see them breaking the law...
 

woodmoose

Administrator
Staff member
Contributor
Has anyone on this board heard of anyone being cited for duck hunting from motorboat while it's drifting downstream with the motor shut off?

The only reference in the regs from the NC Wildlife Commission are Federal regulations which state:

§ 113-291.1. Manner of taking wild animals and wild birds
(b) No wild animals or wild birds may be taken:
(1) From or with the use of any vehicle; vessel, other than one manually
propelled; airplane; or other conveyance except that the use of vehicles and
vessels is authorized:
a. As hunting stands, subject to the following limitations. No wild animal
or wild bird may be taken from any vessel under sail, under power, or
with the engine running or while still in motion from such propulsion.

No wild animal or wild bird may be taken from any vehicle if it is in
motion, the engine is running, or the passenger area of the vehicle is
occupied.
The prohibition of occupying the passenger area of a vehicle
does not apply to a disabled individual whose mobility is restricted.
Until today, I was only aware of the regs from NC Wildlife Commission. Did you know that there are General Statutes from the state general assembly?

There is a similar entry in the general statutes:


It seems clear to me that in both of these cases the law refers to boats in motion from propulsion (either motor or sail).
Has anyone here heard of a case where just drifting downstream, unpowered, would violate this regulation?

I am NOT a lawyer (JD, barracks, nor outhouse) however I would have to fight that citation. To me, uneducated that I am, the GS explicitly seperates VEHICLES from VESSELS - a boat is a vessel, a car/truck/whatever is a vehicle. The prohibition on motion is for a VEHICLE.

otherwise float hunting in NC would be unlawful - and it is not

---------------
see that blackwater nailed it nicely,,,so the above is slightly redundant
 

ScottyB

Old Mossy Horns
Contributor
The way I read it ......is that if he had gunned the boat to where the ducks are sitting and shut it down just as arriving, and continued drifting towards the ducks..while shooting ...he would still be in motion FROM SUCH PROPULSION......since you said it was a motorboat. But cutting the boat off and strictly drifting sounds legal to me. Unless a trolling motor was involved.....but either way I would think the officer would need to witness the “so called” violation to make it stick. Just curious what county?

I think he can beat this one.
 

Gus

Six Pointer
The GW is wrong if your account is accurate. First I'd call his Lt. and discuss the situation with them. If that doesnt resolve it I'd call the DA. Either of those should resolve the situation without the need for a lawyer or court appearance.
I'd of thought a LEO would know better than to say anything beyond what is required by law...
 

nchawkeye

Old Mossy Horns
The hunter said too much...When in the field, getting checked it's best just to keep some info to yourself...I've had game wardens check me in Corolla, while striper fishing, and see my deer tags and ask how many deer I killed the previous year....At my age, I tell them I can't remember what I had for supper... ;)
 

Bailey Boat

Twelve Pointer
The GW is wrong if your account is accurate. First I'd call his Lt. and discuss the situation with them. If that doesnt resolve it I'd call the DA. Either of those should resolve the situation without the need for a lawyer or court appearance.
I'd of thought a LEO would know better than to say anything beyond what is required by law...


Bearing in mind that it's going to come down to the GW's word against the OP and we all know how that turns out....
 

chevync20

Twelve Pointer
Seems we are lacking details here. The decoy thing throws me off because when I wood duck hunt, I do not use decoys. Second, if the violation occurred, he would have had to witness it. Lastly, why did he disclose information like that at a random spot like that? Not saying he is lying, but a lot of valid points brought up by members.
 

GSOHunter

Twelve Pointer
Contributor
Sounds like if what this guy said is true he should be able to call his supervisor and get it dropped especially since he didn't actually witness anything.

I had a friend get a ticket while poling in a no motor zone because he had a motor attached to his boat. This was down in Florida. This particular no motor zone is 14 miles from the nearest ramp so of course you have to motor to it. The warden said you have to physically remove the motor from the transom in order to qualify. It wasn't worth the 2 hour drive and day off of work to fight it. He now pulls the motor off the back.
 
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GSOHunter

Twelve Pointer
Contributor
If I float on my Kayak and do a paddle or pedal correction do I have to wait for the motion to cease before shooting? Am I in the clear completely since my kayak is not a vessel since there is no electric or gas motor?
 

Homebrewale

Old Mossy Horns
We're all jumping to the conclusion the GW doesn't know the regs correctly. It could be that the person who was cited poorly worded his response to the question from the GW.
 

Greenhorn

Six Pointer
Exactly right. Don't say anything that doesn't need to be said. That's the real lesson here. Why don't you have decoys? Didn't need them. End of discussion.
 

cuppednlocked

Ten Pointer
A GW can write you a ticket, that will stick, if you volunteer or admit to the offense. He/she does NOT have to witness the act.
 
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bshobbs

Old Mossy Horns
His best bet is to hire a mouth piece and let him deal with it. Hopefully things will turn out ok. "

Deny everything and make counteraccusations"
 
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