Your opinions on mineral supplements
- Thread starter Familyman
- Start date
Familyman
Twelve Pointer
Thanks for the kind words flathead and o.s.! Hey, y'all don't do too bad yourselves...since this is a minerals thread, what mineral-related tricks do y'all have up your sleeves you can lay on us?
Thanks everyone for the responses to my question, they were very helpful! May have to try some mineral sites this year and see what my camera picks up...
Remember..you have to have a deer on the bag to be legal in NC. Sad but true unfortunately.
Of course if you bought one bag or bucket to use with your home brew.........wellllll I'm sure some folks do the same.
I've had good luck with the range mineral for lactating sheep and red trace mineral salts mixed half and half. That seems to get hit readily and has alot of the ingredients in some of the "better researched" mineral combinations out there. Cattle range mineral will work but has a couple of ingredients that deer don't necessarily need.
Depending on your soil in NC..some of the sandier soils so have a lack of some minerals and leach pretty badly. Other "red sand" soils or clays are better at retaining and binding the minerals so adding salt for attraction is all you really need to do with regularity. Deer need sodium once the green up in springtime starts and they will slam a well placed salt/sodium mineral site.
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Familyman
Twelve Pointer
Great info here...thanks! Regarding the legality of putting out minerals, I honestly wasn't aware of restrictions...but I see this in the regulations: The placement of commercially available mineral supplements specifically and exclusively marketed for attracting or feeding deer is allowed anywhere in the state, except on game lands. Is this what you were referring to? Thanks again.
Yes sir...that wording will get you a ticket if you have a warden in your area checking that kind of thing. I'm hoping that most will not go searching for deer on bags and buckets but I'm sure some probably will.
I almost forgot..since the range mineral/red salt mix has little in the way of calcium, I typically mix about a 20:1 plain ol powdered dolomite with it, that has both calcium and magnesium that are building blocks for the fawn and doe health as well as a major component of antler structure.
I've never bee privileged to own or lease a piece of property that I could definitely say this mixture helped with the antler growth, but nature has a way of telling animals what is good for them and what they are lacking in...and the holes that they dig tell me that they are getting something out of the mix.
I almost forgot..since the range mineral/red salt mix has little in the way of calcium, I typically mix about a 20:1 plain ol powdered dolomite with it, that has both calcium and magnesium that are building blocks for the fawn and doe health as well as a major component of antler structure.
I've never bee privileged to own or lease a piece of property that I could definitely say this mixture helped with the antler growth, but nature has a way of telling animals what is good for them and what they are lacking in...and the holes that they dig tell me that they are getting something out of the mix.
Familyman
Twelve Pointer
Brilliant! That's what I love about this site...I'm always learning new things. Add this to the list! And that's way cheaper than the dairy mineral I was using years ago. Thanks!
luckybuck
Old Mossy Horns
It doesn't hurt to have some out but it is hard to "force" a deer to eat the minerals to boost their racks. Some years they tend to grow more than others.
Familyman
Twelve Pointer
FYI.......I noticed on their website Dick's Sporting Goods is selling 12-pound Trophy Rocks 2 for $20 through January 27th.
oldest school
Old Mossy Horns
how long will they last in your applications?
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Familyman
Twelve Pointer
I will put one rock out at each site sometime in February or March, and it will usually last all spring and summer...as long as it isn't sitting on wet ground. If it sits on a wet spot it will melt pretty quickly. Kept dry, I'll use one rock per site per year. By early fall the rocks are usually dwindling away to nothing, which is ok because the deer pretty much stop using them about that time. Its best to keep a rock off the ground if at all possible. If there isn't a log or a stump right where I want to put it (and there usually isn't), I'll set it on a slab of bark or wood or something....anything to keep it off the ground. I'll usually put a camera at each site sometime after turkey season...and that's when the fun begins!
badlandbucks
Ten Pointer
Minerals are a touchy subject for a lot of folks. I have been using some form of mineral on every property I hunt since probably 2005. What I have noticed over the years is this:
First you must realize that something labeled as a mineral doesn't mean much at face value. If you remember high school chemistry, Salt is Sodium and Chlorine (NaCl) which are both minerals. So even a 100% salt block can be labeled a mineral...so don't rely on what the label says. Most hunters are more concerned with attracting deer than building antler mass, so if that is the goal, it really doesn't matter what you use. I have found that deer seem to like granular salt better than block form. The blocks last longer but I have always gotten more pictures over granular mineral sites.
As far as something that actually benefits a deer enough to affect antler growth, I would say 90% of the marketed "deer minerals" will do little to nothing to accomplish that. I have literally used almost everything that is out there across 4 states. What works best I have found really depends on the geography and soil content of the particular farm the mineral site is used on. For example, when I hunted primarily in NC, a lot of the ground was very acidic, and soil tests would show that the soil was deficient in many macro and trace minerals. In that case, using a mineral that provides what the deer are not getting through natural browse will absolutely make a difference. On the other hand, where I live currently, the soil is very very rich and full of minerals, so the antlers already reach a lot of their potential naturally, meaning mineral supplementation has much less if any effect here.
Texas is a perfect example of this. South Texas does not have great soil. It's rocky and dry. 40 years ago the area was not known for big whitetails...so what happened? Deer managers figured out that mineral deficiency was stunting antlers. Texas biologists started planting high protein food plots and feeding deer cattle minerals. Now doing that is the norm there, and look at the size of some of those Texas bucks. The genetics didn't change. But prolonged access to minerals not available in the natural forage throughout a deer's life (and it's parents lives) make a big difference.
That being said, the Southeast is in my opinion one of the places where minerals can be the most effective. It's not something that will be noticeable right away; in fact you really wont see a huge difference until the 2nd and 3rd generations of deer that have access to minerals. The best results will come from doing a soil test. Sounds ridiculous, but think about it. If your particular soil is deficient in phosphorus for example, then you will see the most benefit from using a mineral that has a high amount of phosphorus. Same with any other macro or trace mineral. As much as the marketing depts. of mineral companies try to say so, There really is not a mineral that will be great everywhere in the country, or even in the same county. It's all about the specific needs of a property.
For this reason I now mix my own mineral. where I live now, the soils is pretty darn good, so I use a higher concentration of granular red salt because I am honestly just trying to get pictures. My recommendation would be to read the label of what you buy. Don't buy a 60-90% salt mixture and expect it to do much for antler growth.
First you must realize that something labeled as a mineral doesn't mean much at face value. If you remember high school chemistry, Salt is Sodium and Chlorine (NaCl) which are both minerals. So even a 100% salt block can be labeled a mineral...so don't rely on what the label says. Most hunters are more concerned with attracting deer than building antler mass, so if that is the goal, it really doesn't matter what you use. I have found that deer seem to like granular salt better than block form. The blocks last longer but I have always gotten more pictures over granular mineral sites.
As far as something that actually benefits a deer enough to affect antler growth, I would say 90% of the marketed "deer minerals" will do little to nothing to accomplish that. I have literally used almost everything that is out there across 4 states. What works best I have found really depends on the geography and soil content of the particular farm the mineral site is used on. For example, when I hunted primarily in NC, a lot of the ground was very acidic, and soil tests would show that the soil was deficient in many macro and trace minerals. In that case, using a mineral that provides what the deer are not getting through natural browse will absolutely make a difference. On the other hand, where I live currently, the soil is very very rich and full of minerals, so the antlers already reach a lot of their potential naturally, meaning mineral supplementation has much less if any effect here.
Texas is a perfect example of this. South Texas does not have great soil. It's rocky and dry. 40 years ago the area was not known for big whitetails...so what happened? Deer managers figured out that mineral deficiency was stunting antlers. Texas biologists started planting high protein food plots and feeding deer cattle minerals. Now doing that is the norm there, and look at the size of some of those Texas bucks. The genetics didn't change. But prolonged access to minerals not available in the natural forage throughout a deer's life (and it's parents lives) make a big difference.
That being said, the Southeast is in my opinion one of the places where minerals can be the most effective. It's not something that will be noticeable right away; in fact you really wont see a huge difference until the 2nd and 3rd generations of deer that have access to minerals. The best results will come from doing a soil test. Sounds ridiculous, but think about it. If your particular soil is deficient in phosphorus for example, then you will see the most benefit from using a mineral that has a high amount of phosphorus. Same with any other macro or trace mineral. As much as the marketing depts. of mineral companies try to say so, There really is not a mineral that will be great everywhere in the country, or even in the same county. It's all about the specific needs of a property.
For this reason I now mix my own mineral. where I live now, the soils is pretty darn good, so I use a higher concentration of granular red salt because I am honestly just trying to get pictures. My recommendation would be to read the label of what you buy. Don't buy a 60-90% salt mixture and expect it to do much for antler growth.
oldest school
Old Mossy Horns
thank you, i am wanting to provide a viewing area for some very young future hunters.
thanks for the info from all. it is informative to me.
Familyman
Twelve Pointer
A ton of great information there! Thanks for taking the time to not only express your opinions but to also explain them. Well done! I'm gonna go back and re-read your post several times and make sure I didn't miss anything. Again, thanks!
Familyman
Twelve Pointer
I apologize for taking some of your statements out of context, but each of them relates to my follow-up question for you, if that's ok. Years and years ago before there were commercially-available "deer blocks", etc., I was making my own mineral sites using granular salt and a granular dairy mineral, both of which I bought at Southern States. The dairy mineral had fair amounts of Calcium, Phosphorus, and Magnesium, though I don't remember the exact analysis. I would mix them together about 50/50 and work them into the soil with a shovel. The deer used them well, but whether they provided a benefit at all is anybody's guess. I did it assuming it might help with antler growth.
Over the years I transitioned over to commercially made blocks (Trophy Rock predominately), mostly for convenience. Based on your comments though, as well as the comments from some of the others who have responded, I'm thinking I may be better off returning to my old granular system. If you're familiar with the dairy mineral I'm referring to that Southern States sells, do you think that's a similar product to the cattle mineral you mentioned above? If not, can you recommend a particular supplement? Or might I be better off switching to a "ready-mixed" granular product.....like what HR Carver produces, for example? Thanks.
badlandbucks
Ten Pointer
I used to use Pro-Phos 8 by land 'o lakes. I believe in this so much, IMO & experience, I can't explain. Rack size, adding mass, kickers, droptines, etc - it's sick. Deer with faces in it all summer. The increases I see are incredible vs deer that don't have minerals they need (deficiencies on phosphorous, calcium, etc). Or- what the average 2-4 year olds looked like on XYZ farm BEFORE doing this VS 2-3 years later - good gosh, HUGE difference, IMO. Improving health, immune systems, etc - has same thing & reasons cattle guys give to cows year round. & Vitamin & mineral defiencies happen in people, cattle, deer, etc, no question about it. Purina quit making pro-phos 8 (owns land o lakes) and have a CLOSE product now.... Either Fescue Pro Mineral 8 or Regular Pro Mineral 8 (Fescue has a little more for mineral on immune boosting, etc) but essentially both are darn close. 8% phosphorous (most areas being phosphorous deficient), and all the minerals I could dream up + Molasses to attract. Product codes, regular: 3003534-106 and fescue: 3003536-106.
Familyman
Twelve Pointer
Thanks for all the info! I checked online with my local Southern States and Tractor Supply stores and they both sell granular mineral mixes similar to the ones you recommended...so that's good. Sounds like what I was doing 25-30 years ago, mixing dairy mineral and ag salt, was probably a pretty good system. I probably should have stuck with it rather than switching over to the blocks. I'm thinking I may change it up this year and do a combination of both granular and blocks and see how it goes. Might be a fun experiment.
Beforehand though, I need to dig a little deeper into the legality of putting out minerals in NC. Eric Revo pointed out a regulation I was not aware of regarding placement of minerals: "The placement of commercially available mineral supplements specifically and exclusively marketed for attracting or feeding deer is allowed anywhere in the state, except on game lands." Though it does not say that placing other mineral supplements is not allowed...it may be implied. I'll want to check into that a little further before using the ag minerals in NC. Hopefully Eric or another forum member has already clarified that with the NCWRC and will chime in. Thanks again for all your input!
http://www.ncwildlife.org/Portals/0/About/documents/082814-process-food-products-resolution.pdf
According to the latest I could find..unless it's specifically marketed for deer, it's considered a "processed food product" anywhere there's a bear season(which is the whole dern state now)
According to the latest I could find..unless it's specifically marketed for deer, it's considered a "processed food product" anywhere there's a bear season(which is the whole dern state now)
Familyman
Twelve Pointer
Got it! So, it appears the "deer on the bag" policy was put in place to give deer hunters a legal means of continuing to use minerals despite bear hunting regulations prohibiting the use of processed baits and attractants? Seems pretty clear then that to use any processed product without it being marketed specifically for deer would be prohibited....like you said before. Thanks for providing that link and helping clear up the matter.
creekhobo
Ten Pointer
If you ever clean out a hot water heater the sediment is good for mineral sites. 
30/06
Twelve Pointer
Be careful about putting minerals out before turkey season, we all know turkeys don't eat salt but I believe that you could get ticketed for hunting near a mineral site. Somebody correct me if I am wrong.
Shockgobbles
Six Pointer
I was thinking this the whole time reading through this thread and am 99% sure that is the case. I always wait until after turkey season to put out anything for deer (obviously). Great info in this thread, thanks Familyman. Definitely will look into some of the advice given here
creekhobo
Ten Pointer
I would take some of the info in this thread "with a grain of salt".
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DRS
Old Mossy Horns
I have been placing a mixture of di-calcium phosphate, salt and trace minerals out for a few years. I started it to try and give the does a jump start on having healthy fawns. Hoping the healthy fawns could better escape predators. I have seen no difference in antler growth, I just hope it benefits the deer's health in general. I do like getting the pictures through out the summer of the bucks and antler growth. Most of the bucks I see hang around until October, when there is a change in guard.
I refresh the sites every Feb. and have noticed the deer stop using the salt/minerals in late Summer. A mineral site would make a poor attractant during deer season.
I refresh the sites every Feb. and have noticed the deer stop using the salt/minerals in late Summer. A mineral site would make a poor attractant during deer season.
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Rubline
Twelve Pointer
^ How do you put out your mineral? On a stump, feeder or mix it in with the dirt?
DRS
Old Mossy Horns
I just put it on the ground. One thing to be reminded of is that you can't legally put minerals out now, unless it is specifically marketed for deer. I mixed my own before. Now I find what I can with the calcium phosphate, trophy block for trace minerals and Lucky Buck or Deer Cane for salt.
I think that regulation is one of the stupidest ones we have.
I think that regulation is one of the stupidest ones we have.
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Rubline
Twelve Pointer
^ Thanks! I have a Trophy rock out in several places and I'm going to try the Lucky Buck mineral, I'll put it on the ground and see what happens.
DRS
Old Mossy Horns
They found and used mine fine, put out that way. I did place mine, where I also feed corn during fall and winter.
caswelltrophyhunter
Ten Pointer
Not trying to get off topic but that deer looks older in the first pic vs the second ..trail cam pics can be misleading for sure !! How old you think he is now?