Recoveries

JJWise

Twelve Pointer
In the case of a lost bird how long do you typically search and what methods do you use? This morning I shot a duck that was immediately dead, it was not just winged or anything like that. Fell on the opposite bank 25 yards or so away in thick marsh grass and I mentally marked where it had fallen. The dog got half way across the creek and came back, I'm assuming he decided the water was too cold (he's a Spaniel, doesn't have a thick double coat), and it was too deep for me to wade across. Borrowed my buddy's kayak and came back with the dog. We looked for probably 2 hours and neither me nor the dog could find the bird. Went back to the same spot to hunt this evening and still couldn't find it.
 

CountryRN

Twelve Pointer
Sorry you lost one. It does sound as if you put in the effort to recover the bird. There are many out there that wouldn't put in more than 15 minutes.
If a trained dog couldn't find it, it is possible it wasn't there to find. It may have fed the local fox or other scavenger.
 

JJWise

Twelve Pointer
Sorry you lost one. It does sound as if you put in the effort to recover the bird. There are many out there that wouldn't put in more than 15 minutes.
If a trained dog couldn't find it, it is possible it wasn't there to find. It may have fed the local fox or other scavenger.

I was thinking scavenger as well, I see lots of eagles in that particular spot. The dog is only partially trained though, so far he's pretty much only capable of retrieving marks, or if I can get him in the general area of a bird he can use his nose to find it... eventually.
 

Putt

Old Mossy Horns
Soft crash landing in tall grass might be survivable. Bird could move or swim or dive just not fly. Seen plenty of doves hit hard then go to walking around in the field
 

Wildlifer

Old Mossy Horns
Id say you did your due diligence. There is nothing I hate more than losing a bird so I tend to put a good bit of effort into looking for them. Unless it is absolutely dead they can flat out disappear. I had my dog dive under a floating grass mat and pull a bird out, it would have been impossible to find without him. I have also had a variety of predators go after birds I have had a visual mark on but didn't want to get until a lull in the flight.
 

Buxndiverdux

Old Mossy Horns
My lab has chased several "stone dead" ducks around the swamp plenty of times. You can never tell for sure unless you see what they do when they land.
 

chevync20

Twelve Pointer
I always hate losing a bird, but you did your diligence in finding it. I could not tell you how many times I have knocked a bird down, just to have them hit the ground and run or eventually just fly away again. Happens to everyone at some point. Do not even mention sea ducks. Those things disappear in heartbeat.
 

JJWise

Twelve Pointer
My lab has chased several "stone dead" ducks around the swamp plenty of times. You can never tell for sure unless you see what they do when they land.

Interesting. I haven't done a great deal of duck hunting, this one crumpled mid flight and I've never seen one do that and not be "stone dead". But there's a first time for everything, and this is definitely not the first surprise I've had looking for downed game lol
 

Wildlifer

Old Mossy Horns
Interesting. I haven't done a great deal of duck hunting, this one crumpled mid flight and I've never seen one do that and not be "stone dead". But there's a first time for everything, and this is definitely not the first surprise I've had looking for downed game lol

A guy just told me a story about a swan. The guy shot it, picked it up, put his tag on it and 20 mins later it sprang to life on the edge of the ditch his was sitting in and flew away with the tag on it.
 

JONOV

Old Mossy Horns
I was thinking scavenger as well, I see lots of eagles in that particular spot. The dog is only partially trained though, so far he's pretty much only capable of retrieving marks, or if I can get him in the general area of a bird he can use his nose to find it... eventually.

Sometimes they take a while to find it. This one sounds like he got eaten or otherwise crawled in a hole or dove and didn't come back up.

Just a thought, if you aren't training for tests or trials, try teaching the dog to search. They do it in NAVHDA...actually, during the duck search portion of the test the dog is sent on an incorrect line and expect him to search independently and expand the search...you looked for as long as can be expected, and you never recover all of them...

It could have gotten taken by a hawk, a coon, possum, weasel, fox

This dove season, I shot a dove that I thought I had a good mark on but fell into really thick stuff, the dog kept trying to break out of where I was directing him. He doesn't find it. 30 minutes later we move down, near where Gus thought he was...Gus disappears behind me, about five minutes later, pops out with the bird. Where he thought it went.

In any case, you did everything you could be expected to.
 

Bailey Boat

Twelve Pointer
You haven't lived until a darned Eagle swipes your dead, floating duck from 40 yards in front of you and there isn't anything you can do about it. Eagle eats, I didn't....
 

JONOV

Old Mossy Horns
I once had an owl come and knock over my mojo when I was dove hunting. It was really cool to see actually.
 

Buxndiverdux

Old Mossy Horns
Dang hawks can be bad as well,,,,,

I had a hawk feast on a widgeon one day. It was one of those birds that was wounded and fell out dead 100 yards out. Instead of heading off with the boat to go get it, we figured we would pick it up on the way out since it fell back towards the truck and too far for the dog. We picked up our spread and started motoring through the trees to the snag I had marked the bird near and a hawk got up about 40 yards in front of us. We eased up to the snag, and sure enough there was feathers everywhere. That hawk landed on some brush that was sticking up out of mid thigh deep water and picked the breast right out of that widgeon.
 

Greenhorn

Six Pointer
Had an Eagle pick up a bluebill this year. Last year one picked up a bufflehead. I left the bufflehead out there b/c the birds were flying good and I figured I'd pick it up later b/c the wind wasn't blowing it away. The bluebill on the other hand, was picked up within seconds of me shooting it. That Eagle had been staking out my hunt the whole time. Damn clever birds.
 

nekkedducker

Ten Pointer
I never realized how vicious seagulls were until I hunted at the outerbanks. If you didn't get them fast enough the gulls would start swooping in.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
 

JJWise

Twelve Pointer
Just a thought, if you aren't training for tests or trials, try teaching the dog to search. They do it in NAVHDA...actually, during the duck search portion of the test the dog is sent on an incorrect line and expect him to search independently and expand the search...you looked for as long as can be expected, and you never recover all of them...
Wow I'd never heard of anyone specifically training for that but I really like that idea. This Spaniel is about 9 months old now and will run marks beautifully, quarters very naturally (not really important for waterfowl), and will take directional hand signals to an extent, but I can't get him to stay on a line for the life of me lol. During training, if I try to send him on a line to a hidden dummy, he'll keep his nose to the ground the entire way and search all over on his own accord.
 

CountryRN

Twelve Pointer
I never realized how vicious seagulls were until I hunted at the outerbanks. If you didn't get them fast enough the gulls would start swooping in.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

Have watched them pick a number of downed ducks apart including a redhead I shot down at the coast.
 

shurshot

Ten Pointer
Wow I'd never heard of anyone specifically training for that but I really like that idea. This Spaniel is about 9 months old now and will run marks beautifully, quarters very naturally (not really important for waterfowl), and will take directional hand signals to an extent, but I can't get him to stay on a line for the life of me lol. During training, if I try to send him on a line to a hidden dummy, he'll keep his nose to the ground the entire way and search all over on his own accord.

Can’t expect him to run “cold” blinds without first teaching him “pattern” blinds. But your real issue is a lack of formal training. You need to find a good training program (range from basic, simple to full blown) and start from there. I’d suggest going on some of the retriever forums and look at the sticky’s where they list all types of training programs. You can also post up questions as to which one might fit your style/needs the best. But you need to make it clear you’re looking for a program because in essence you don’t have one. Good luck, never to late to train him.
 

JJWise

Twelve Pointer
Can’t expect him to run “cold” blinds without first teaching him “pattern” blinds. But your real issue is a lack of formal training. You need to find a good training program (range from basic, simple to full blown) and start from there. I’d suggest going on some of the retriever forums and look at the sticky’s where they list all types of training programs. You can also post up questions as to which one might fit your style/needs the best. But you need to make it clear you’re looking for a program because in essence you don’t have one. Good luck, never to late to train him.

I've been going off the SmartFetch program, worked incredibly well but we're still in the process of going through it. It's taking a while, due to my lack of teaching ability. On top of that I have to leave for a few weeks at a time every 2-3 months and that sets us back a little.
 

Greenhorn

Six Pointer
I've been going off the SmartFetch program, worked incredibly well but we're still in the process of going through it. It's taking a while, due to my lack of teaching ability. On top of that I have to leave for a few weeks at a time every 2-3 months and that sets us back a little.

What kind of spaniel is it
 

shurshot

Ten Pointer
I've been going off the SmartFetch program, worked incredibly well but we're still in the process of going through it. It's taking a while, due to my lack of teaching ability. On top of that I have to leave for a few weeks at a time every 2-3 months and that sets us back a little.

Evan Graham’s training manuals are very good, stick with it! Does take time, I can see where your difficulties are. If at all possible, try to find someone or some group to train with. Will help you emmensely.
 

JONOV

Old Mossy Horns
Evan Graham’s training manuals are very good, stick with it! Does take time, I can see where your difficulties are. If at all possible, try to find someone or some group to train with. Will help you emmensely.

And I believe Mr. Graham makes himself available on the refuge forum or some other forum.

Also, doesn't hurt to read another program or method or two or watch youtube videos on the subject.

It gets frustrating being told to "back up and reinforce" which is like someone telling you "just practice more" when your developing a flinch or something.
 

Soilman

Old Mossy Horns
Contributor
Wow I'd never heard of anyone specifically training for that but I really like that idea. This Spaniel is about 9 months old now and will run marks beautifully, quarters very naturally (not really important for waterfowl), and will take directional hand signals to an extent, but I can't get him to stay on a line for the life of me lol. During training, if I try to send him on a line to a hidden dummy, he'll keep his nose to the ground the entire way and search all over on his own accord.

JJ, my boykin won't hold a line well either, unless he sees the bumper or saw where it was thrown. I can eventually get him to the mark with hand signals though. But, he WILL search on his own, and doesn't want to give up the search even when I recall him. I occasionally scent up a bumper and hide it in the yard without him seeing where, then send him to searching. He loves that "game".
 

JJWise

Twelve Pointer
JJ, my boykin won't hold a line well either, unless he sees the bumper or saw where it was thrown. I can eventually get him to the mark with hand signals though. But, he WILL search on his own, and doesn't want to give up the search even when I recall him. I occasionally scent up a bumper and hide it in the yard without him seeing where, then send him to searching. He loves that "game".


I've been doing similar drills in the yard since then, hiding a dummy and having him find it. He's beginning to get the hang of following a line, it's not incredibly precise but more or less straight. He also doesn't like to listen to a recall when he's following his nose, which is part of the reason I always keep an e collar on him during a hunt. Even if it's not turned on he'll listen while he's wearing it. On another forum I was scrolling through some similar stories and heard people suggesting to toss a rock near the downed bird so the dog will follow it, especially since he's most used to seeing hand throw dummies. Tried it in the yard today on a practice blind and it worked wonders. Not a solution I want to use long term, but it'll do for the last day of the season.
 
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