Smokless bullets.

herman

Six Pointer
Deer season is a long time off so got plenty of time testing bullets and loads.
Testing some fury muzzy bullets.these are custom bullets at a good price.
Frist target was testing a experiment 308 gr.300 gr weight.
Second is some 300 gr with a 25 thick jacket comparing to a 21 jacket.


 

Hoss

Eight Pointer
Herman I don't know what you are shooting but I am impressed. I couldn't put five shoots in the paper with any front end loader I ever owned.
 

bryguy

Old Mossy Horns
Deer season is a long time off so got plenty of time testing bullets and loads.
Testing some fury muzzy bullets.these are custom bullets at a good price.
Frist target was testing a experiment 308 gr.300 gr weight.
Second is some 300 gr with a 25 thick jacket comparing to a 21 jacket.




Herman have you tried any of Keith’s bombs and if you did what did you think? I am kind of on the fence about I either need to get back into shooting my savage or go ahead and sell it.


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brownisdown

Twelve Pointer
Contributor
Herman have you tried any of Keith’s bombs and if you did what did you think? I am kind of on the fence about I either need to get back into shooting my savage or go ahead and sell it.


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The Bombs shoot well as long as Keith is still making them. Luke was buying all he had last i heard. The Pittman bullets are excellent also and after talking with Kyle personally on the phone during the 40 cal bullet project and testing hes a good guy too.

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bryguy

Old Mossy Horns
The Bombs shoot well as long as Keith is still making them. Luke was buying all he had last i heard. The Pittman bullets are excellent also and after talking with Kyle personally on the phone during the 40 cal bullet project and testing hes a good guy too.

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I have had such good luck shooting the 325 FTX out of my 50 cal savage that I have never really felt a need to change, but I am thinking I need to get off my butt and use that savage more or move it down the road and let someone else enjoy it.


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herman

Six Pointer
Haven't tried any of the bombs or pittman. The range I use is 300yds,if it was a lot longer I would try some.By the reports all these custom bullets shoot great.
The only bullets I have used for deer so far are the sst or ftx,40 cal 200 gr,250 and 300 ftx 452's
Have taken deer with all of them from 50 yds to 300 yds.They work great for me.Do plan on using the furys in 275 or 300 gr this year to see how they preform.
The rifle I used to shoot these groups was my newest custom,built a Remington bolt acton with a 45 cal Kreiger barrel and Hankins Ignition System.Avg speed was 2870 fps
Just found out he is going to stay with the 25 jackets.
Haven't shot these in one of my inlines but sure they would work great in those also.
 

brownisdown

Twelve Pointer
Contributor
I have had such good luck shooting the 325 FTX out of my 50 cal savage that I have never really felt a need to change, but I am thinking I need to get off my butt and use that savage more or move it down the road and let someone else enjoy it.


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If you're gun shoots good no reason to change unless you are stretching it out past 250-300 and then the BC of the customs really shine. Price is the only negative with them. You really need to shoot them sabotless out of a 45 cal to really make them shine to their potential and speed though IMO.
 

bryguy

Old Mossy Horns
If you're gun shoots good no reason to change unless you are stretching it out past 250-300 and then the BC of the customs really shine. Price is the only negative with them. You really need to shoot them sabotless out of a 45 cal to really make them shine to their potential and speed though IMO.

Yeah and that would require either building a gun or converting my savage and honestly I am not thinking it’s worth it here in NC. If I hunted out of state where you couldn’t use a rifle then I could maybe justify it, but honestly not for just hunting NC


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ourway77

Button Buck
Try the new Fury bullets they shoot great I shoot the 225 40 caliber ML'er bullet with Harvester blue 45/40
 

Richard

Button Buck
I have been testing the Fury bullets that Dennis has been making. We have played with many variations. Some did not pan out and others are doing super. He makes a 305 Fat bullet that has an aluminum tip. Unlike the Pittman bullets with use a machined tip, Dennis forms the tip from aluminum tubing. He basically uses the same jacket as he does with his Star Tip's but inserts this aluminum tip. The lower lead core is bonded to the jacket. The tip in not sharp like the Pittman's so the BC is somewhat lower (I think in the .3 something range) The nice part is the bonding holds the core and jacket together unlike the Pittman. The Pittman's are ideal for very long range due to the higher BC and, at longer range where the velocity has decreased, the bullet is not so explosive. Whereas the Fat Fury can be shot at high speed and close in hits do not destroy the bullet. These bullets run around $150/100 as compared to the Pittman's at over $200.
For general purpose hunting out to probably 400 yards, the 275 or 300 gr. Star Tips for around $90/100 shipped are the ticket. I shoot the 300's right at 3,000 fps and can get five shots easily in under 4" at 300 yards. Many three shot groups go 2". Wind and mirage are always a factor in shooting groups OR hunting. My powders of choice are 4198 (Either IMR or Hodgedon), V V N-120, AA-2015, H-322 along with duplex loads using N-110 (NOT H-110). I use either Hanks HIS ignition or mainly a Direct Ignition in a converted Rem. 700 CF action with a 28" Brux barrel that starts at 1.250" at the breech end and runs for 5" then a straight taper to .9". The scope is NF 12x42 BR along with a radial muzzle brake and a Shilen 8 oz, trigger.
Pictured are the Fury Fat Aluminum tip (alongside one I modified the point), the Pittman AccuMax and Aero Max (longer point) and a 300 gr. Star tip sectioned.





 
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Billy

Twelve Pointer
Contributor
I have been testing the Fury bullets that Dennis has been making. We have played with many variations. ]

Richard, are you the same "Richard" that posts on Doug's Savage ML board? If so, I'm glad that you and Herman are sharing your expertise with those of us on this board. I'm a member of Doug's Savage Board as well, but don't monitor it daily like I do here.
 

herman

Six Pointer
We are the same,we are on Hanks muzzleloader board also.
Both shoot smokless muzleloadeers about every week.Trying different loads and bullets.
Richard doesn't hunt anymore.But I do every chance I get.
Shooting one load week after week would get very boring is why we shoot so many different loads.
I shoot a lot of different rifles during the year but love shooting the muzzleloader.
Richard does a post on Hanks board every week with detail of his results.He also builds them too.
These are the last 2 he built for me,both have shot less than an inch at 300 yds.
 

Billy

Twelve Pointer
Contributor
Thanks, Herman. Richard shared a wealth of data on Doug's, and I printed and saved a lot of it. :)
Those are a couple of beauties!
 

Packfan

Eight Pointer
I have been toying with the idea of a smokeless gun for a couple of years now and i have learned enough on the internet to be dangerous. So i have a couple of questions for you guys who seem to know what they are doing and have built/do build these guns.

1) I don’t shoot a lot and don’t shoot match competitions. i have some hunting shot opportunities at 300-400 yards quite often and i see that these guns are capable of that. I really don’t see myself trying to shoot much farther than that. So... for a guy like me would you suggest a break action or bolt gun for couple of weeks out of the year shooter?
2) what is a real world price on a custom bolt gun or a break action conversion? The prices i see are all over the place from several hundred for a conversion upwards of $3-4K for a truly custom gun (and i don’t see myself spending that on a gun to be shot a couple of times a year).
3) Is it just simpler to buy a Savage ML II? If so, what kind of ranges are they capable of?
4) .45 cal or .50?

Thanks in advance
 

brownisdown

Twelve Pointer
Contributor
I have been toying with the idea of a smokeless gun for a couple of years now and i have learned enough on the internet to be dangerous. So i have a couple of questions for you guys who seem to know what they are doing and have built/do build these guns.

1) I don’t shoot a lot and don’t shoot match competitions. i have some hunting shot opportunities at 300-400 yards quite often and i see that these guns are capable of that. I really don’t see myself trying to shoot much farther than that. So... for a guy like me would you suggest a break action or bolt gun for couple of weeks out of the year shooter?
2) what is a real world price on a custom bolt gun or a break action conversion? The prices i see are all over the place from several hundred for a conversion upwards of $3-4K for a truly custom gun (and i don’t see myself spending that on a gun to be shot a couple of times a year).
3) Is it just simpler to buy a Savage ML II? If so, what kind of ranges are they capable of?
4) .45 cal or .50?

Thanks in advance

1) For a dedicated hunting gun you can't go wrong with the break open conversions in my opinion. Cheapest option, much lighter to carry, and plenty capable out to 350-400 yards if you can shoot and have good optics.

2) Cheapest break open conversion using a CVA Scout 45-70 and 209 plug is going to run you in the $600 range. Conversion after you buy the gun runs about $125 plus the cost of ignition system. If you want LRMP ignition add about $200. A Brux Encore barrel from Luke (arrowhead sporting goods) or Jeff (Hankins Custom rifles) is in the $850 - $900 range and you need to buy a frame if you don't have one. Bolt action builds sale on the used market for about $1400 and up but a full on custom build would probably start around $2000 and go up.

3) No, Savage ML II would be the last option I would go with unless you just found one real cheap (not likely)

4) 45 caliber no doubt. Shooting sabotless is what makes the 45 cals so much more accurate removing the week link of the plastic sabot. You can still shoot 40 cal bullets in the 45 cal with sabots and Pittman bullets has a very high BC 40 cal bullet now that shoots good in sabots for the simplicity of a 5-10 shot a year hunting gun.
 

Richard

Button Buck
A break action SML for 400 yards would be a handfull! For that distance you would definitely want a bolt gun with some weight to it. Say............12 lbs. or so. You want to be able to push a 300 gr. bullet like the Pittman AccuMax or AeroMax to around 2800 to 2900 fps and that means RECOIL! I shoot the 300 gr. bullets at right at 3,000 fps. My 300 yard target at the Kentucky Challenge last Saturday measured .940" CTC. The break actions are fine for a woods gun out to maybe 250 yds. with a mild load and a 225 or 250 gr. bullet. More than that and your looking for rotator cuff surgery :) There is also a larger margin of security with a fatter, heavier barrel vs. the skinny ones on the Break Actions.
 

Clifford66

Button Buck
Thanks for all of this good information on smokeless muzzleloaders! Man a 300 grain bullet at 3000 feet per second! I thought I had moved up when I got a T/C Impact so I could use Blackhorn 209.
 

bryguy

Old Mossy Horns
I have been toying with the idea of a smokeless gun for a couple of years now and i have learned enough on the internet to be dangerous. So i have a couple of questions for you guys who seem to know what they are doing and have built/do build these guns.

1) I don’t shoot a lot and don’t shoot match competitions. i have some hunting shot opportunities at 300-400 yards quite often and i see that these guns are capable of that. I really don’t see myself trying to shoot much farther than that. So... for a guy like me would you suggest a break action or bolt gun for couple of weeks out of the year shooter?
2) what is a real world price on a custom bolt gun or a break action conversion? The prices i see are all over the place from several hundred for a conversion upwards of $3-4K for a truly custom gun (and i don’t see myself spending that on a gun to be shot a couple of times a year).
3) Is it just simpler to buy a Savage ML II? If so, what kind of ranges are they capable of?
4) .45 cal or .50?

Thanks in advance
A 700ml conversion will run about 1k or so, assuming you get a decent deal on the donor. the 700mls are becoming harder and harder to find at good prices, but another alternative is to buy a lower end savage CF or 700 CF and have it converted to a SML. that will run about the same price as a 700ml conversion will. but that price is just bare gun and then you have to add optics and other things. Honestly a sml conversion is cheaper then a custom SML, but it is by no means cheap. if you plan to hunt states that do not have a rifle season, then a SML makes sense, but if you are only planning on using it NC for ML season only, then I don believe you would be wise to spend the cash on a SML bolt gun. I did hunt with mine a good amount during the regular season due to the county I live in have a minimum height requiremtn for centerfire rifles use, so I will carry it instead of my slug gun when I have longer shots possible.
Savages are good guns, I have one that I have done a few things to and it shoots well. I do want to make a few changes and upgrades if I plan to keep it, I am just unsure if I want to hold o to it or not.
45 cal is the better option, but it does have its issues as well, especially going sabotless. but the 45 is the real deal by what is posted by guys who have them.
 

Richard

Button Buck
Once you have a smokeless and see the results? You will not want to go back to a black powder/subs gun.....period! Fire one shot and you have to clean:rolleyes:. You pretty much are stuck cleaning the bore after each or maybe a couple of shotso_O I put in excess of 50 or more(accurate) shots thru my Brux barrel without ever cleaning(y) When I get home, if I don't feel like cleaning I just don't?................and, NO rust:love: Not saying BP rifles don't have a place, just not in my gun safe!
 
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