Gun season has been ruined

oldest school

Old Mossy Horns
Is there something particularly surprising about that? I've noticed that pattern since childhood seeing the deer checked in at country stores in Randolph, Moore, Chatham, Montgomery, Richmond and Scotland counties. Being the NCWRC isn't a trophy managemen task force I don't see a need to change anything. The overall numbers of deer are stable with the current regulations and there are big bucks hitting the ground every single day in NC now.

<>< Fish

yes but just think how many more big bucks there would be IF we didnt shootem with guns for months on end.

maybe sanity will reign when folks realize it doesnt take several months to kill two bucks.

unlike you i want some change, it cant hurt. our state head show in raleigh is a joke. the outfitters have more on display than the wake wildlife club.

didnt we just do this ? :)
 

brucesmith0817

Six Pointer
You can't stockpile deer if Hunter s don't kill them disease will take your let Hunter eat them or watch the buzzards eat them

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Blades

Six Pointer
Tons of variables here but I wouldn’t be surprised that every year more undocumented kills/poaching could be a significant factor in certain areas. Oh yeah, did I mention coyote population as well?! For me, I can attest to an increase coyote population in my area. Being originally from Texas I know for a fact these dogs can take down more than just a small fawn. I believe this is more of a contributing factor than season weapon dates. Honestly I don’t care, I’ll make it work with any changes and just happy to be in the woods enjoying nature.

I find the live harvest metrics online very interesting over the 3 year but would also like a 5 year look back.
 

FishHunt

Old Mossy Horns
yes but just think how many more big bucks there would be IF we didnt shootem with guns for months on end.

maybe sanity will reign when folks realize it doesnt take several months to kill two bucks.

unlike you i want some change, it cant hurt. our state head show in raleigh is a joke. the outfitters have more on display than the wake wildlife club.

didnt we just do this ? :)

I'm not worried over how many more big bucks there would be and the NCWRC shouldn't be either. They should be concerned over managing a healthy deer herd with a stable population. And we have those things. The NCWRC is NOT a trophy management team for the people hunting NC who are not happy with hunting their own hunt and desire to control how others legally hunt. I pray they don't succumb to the trophy mindset disease. And two bucks? I'm legally good for four bucks in 1/2 of the counties I hunt. If I take from the 1st week of October to the last week of December why should that matter to any other hunter in the whole state?

There are great deer killed in NC and brought to the Dixie Deer Classic, to deny that would make further discussion a moot point. Deer that are every bit the trophy in inches that folks pay $2500-$5000 to go hunt out of state on private trophy managed lands. Comparing NC deer to states that have always had bigger horned and bodied deer than NC is out there. Why not compare our bass fishing lakes with the trophy bass waters of Florida, Texas, California and Mexico and petition the NCWRC to make bring NC lakes up to the trophy TV bass fishing mindset?

What's ruining the great sport of deer hunting? TV trophy hunting, greed, money and the fact that no matter what restrictions are put in place most of NC doesn't have the food and genes to produce the trophy bucks in our dreams. If short gun seasons and time is all it takes to grow those GIANTS where were they in the mid to late 1970's to early 1980's in Chatham county? You know back when there was NO gun season for decades before gun deer season was opened in Chatham. There were tens of thousands less hunters and pressure then plus there was tens of thousands more acreage in row crops to provide food for the deer. There should have been MONSTER bucks riding around the courthouse in Pittsboro in 50% of the pickups...but there wasn't. So if absolutely no gun deer season for the previous decades, more food/ag fields and extremely low hunting pressure didn't produce those giant bucks what would make any sane person think they would now with ag fields turned into sub-divisions, less food, more pressure and the wiley coyote of today? Please explain it if you know, I'd love to know.

<>< Fish
 

CRC

Old Mossy Horns
The NCWRC is NOT a trophy management team for the people hunting NC who are not happy with hunting their own hunt and desire to control how others legally hunt. I pray they don't succumb to the trophy mindset disease. And two bucks? I'm legally good for four bucks in 1/2 of the counties I hunt. If I take from the 1st week of October to the last week of December why should that matter to any other hunter in the whole state?

Who said the NCWRC is pushing trophy management?

I guess folks are scared because they just saw South Carolina go to buck limits and statewide antler restrictions.

Several years ago the WRC commissioners asked the biologists to create a report on enacting antler restrictions on bucks in NC. As far as I know it has never been acted on, but it was done.
 
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FishHunt

Old Mossy Horns
Who said the NCWRC is pushing trophy management?

I guess folks are scared because they just saw South Carolina go to buck limits and statewide antler restrictions.

The vocal minority is pushing for it. The squeaky wheel will get greased, no doubt. What will the lack of giant bucks be blamed on then? Bow hunters blaming gun hunters? Non-baiters blaming baiters? Still hunters blaming dog hunters? Where will it end?

Not everyone can slip out of work early, or is retired or can hunt any day of the week they want. Do those folks need to be cut short of gun hunting by the trophy hunter mindset? How many days a week/month/season does the average person get to actually hunt? Certainly not everyday off of work.

<>< Fish

nobigbucks.jpg
 

CRC

Old Mossy Horns
All I can say is deer hunters need to show up at this winters public hearings and voice their opinions on deer management.

Whoever does will get the WRC's ear because it will show they actually care.
 

oldest school

Old Mossy Horns
the voice controlling the deer limits in nc has never been the hunters.

the farmers, landowners, insurance companies viewed them as pests that needed eradicating. our seasons were set up to eradicate them. you could kill as many as you wanted, permits 24/7.

then ehd and coyotes had a run and all of the sudden there werent as many being killed.

the state surveys hunters and finds a willingness to change seasons and limits. they also have some biological reasons to support the change.

they know their counterparts have happy hunters in other states managing for a better chance of an older buck being around.

why would NC hunters be different?
 

CRC

Old Mossy Horns
the farmers, landowners, insurance companies viewed them as pests that needed eradicating. our seasons were set up to eradicate them. you could kill as many as you wanted, permits 24/7

Except in the far western 6 counties right?

The problem is hunters have went right along with the liberal seasons and limits and some even agreed deer were now pests.

Can hunters be weaned off the liberal regulations if its in the best interest of the herd and hunting?

That remains to be seen.
 
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jug

Old Mossy Horns
Contributor
Guys who use to see a lot of deer in places like Northampton, Rockingham/Guilford county area, Chatham/Moore county area , and Anson/Union county areas are not seeing the numbers they were 3-4 years ago. I see the NC hunting seasons going back to what we saw in 1993/1994. Change is coming. Got too many hunters , predators, automobiles killing too many deer now. A man I know told last me week that he knows of 10 guys hunting 50+ acres in the Union/ Anson county area beside his 50 acres. That's crazy and stupid.
 
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CRC

Old Mossy Horns
Guys who use to see a lot of deer in places like Northampton, Rockingham/Guilford county area, Chatham/Moore county area , and Anson/Union county areas are not seeing the numbers they were 3-4 years ago. I see the NC hunting seasons going back to what we saw in 1993/1994. Change is coming. Got too many hunters , predators, automobiles killing too many deer now. A man I know told last me week that he knows of 10 guys hunting 50+ acres in the Union/ Anson county area beside his 50 acres. That's crazy and stupid.

Not if you don't have anywhere else to hunt.

Another factor is loss of hunting land and access to places to hunt.
 

oldest school

Old Mossy Horns
Guys who use to see a lot of deer in places like Northampton, Rockingham/Guilford county area, Chatham/Moore county area , and Anson/Union county areas are not seeing the numbers they were 3-4 years ago. I see the NC hunting seasons going back to what we saw in 1993/1994. Change is coming. Got too many hunters , predators, automobiles killing too many deer now. A man I know told last me week that he knows of 10 guys hunting 50+ acres in the Union/ Anson county area beside his 50 acres. That's crazy and stupid.

they may not be seeing them but someone is killing them at rates higher than the three year average in most of those those counties you listed.

northhampton is down about three percent on bucks versus the past three year average killed by this date.

Guilford is up almost 15% on buck versus it's last three year average.
 

DRS

Old Mossy Horns
I'm not saying we would have the same calibur bucks as Iowa. But we would have more bucks reach a older age. It would be nice to see more deer reach 5 or 6 years old. Where I hunt they are lucky to see 2.5 or 3.

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The buck harvest age structure in ENC is just as good as mid-western states. We don't need changes I like just as it is.
 

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DubDove

Button Buck
All I can say is deer hunters need to show up at this winters public hearings and voice their opinions on deer management.

Whoever does will get the WRC's ear because it will show they actually care.
How can I find the info about these hearings?

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CRC

Old Mossy Horns
How can I find the info about these hearings?

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The NCWRC is proposing some big changes to firearms deer hunting in NC starting next year. These are just proposals, NOT a done deal by far.

I suspect starting next month the WRC will open the online comment period on these proposals but showing up in person at your district hearing is better. You can talk to the commissioners and biologists in person and listen to other hunters.
 
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FishHunt

Old Mossy Horns
the voice controlling the deer limits in nc has never been the hunters.

the farmers, landowners, insurance companies viewed them as pests that needed eradicating. our seasons were set up to eradicate them. you could kill as many as you wanted, permits 24/7.

then ehd and coyotes had a run and all of the sudden there werent as many being killed.

the state surveys hunters and finds a willingness to change seasons and limits. they also have some biological reasons to support the change.

they know their counterparts have happy hunters in other states managing for a better chance of an older buck being around.

why would NC hunters be different?

I'd like to read any and all factual data/info on the above statements. Can't hurt learning the who, what and why if they are true.

<>< Fish
 

CRC

Old Mossy Horns
Hearing dates and times:

SCHEDULE FOR THE JANUARY 2018 PUBLIC HEARINGS FOR PROPOSED CHANGES IN
WILDLIFE, FISHERIES, AND GAME LAND MANAGEMENT RULES

HEARING TIME: 7:00 p.m.

DATE DISTRICT CITY LOCATION

January 9, 2018
(Tuesday)
4 Dublin Bladen Community College

January 10, 2018
(Wednesday)
5 Graham Old Alamance County CTHS

January 11, 2018
(Thursday)
6 Albemarle Stanly Co Agri-Civic Center

January 16, 2018
(Tuesday)
9 Clyde Haywood CC

January 17, 2018
(Wednesday)
8 Morganton Western Piedmont CC

January 18, 2018
(Thursday)
7 Elkin Elkin HS

January 23, 2018
(Tuesday)
1 Edenton Chowan Co. Public Safety Ctr

January 24, 2018
(Wednesday)
2 New Bern Craven Community College

January 25, 2018
(Thursday)
3 Rocky Mount Nash Community College
 

DRS

Old Mossy Horns
I would like to see the biological reasons for a change in the seasons and limits. I have seen none, that are a biological necessity. I have seen the ones listed by the NCWRC and it is all hunter preference and a form of trophy management "for those interested parties". Referring to the dispersal of 1.5 year old bucks.

You say, predator swamping. Research suggest that predator swamping does not work in the presence of coyotes. Google research by USDA, Forest Service Biologist John Kilgo.

Not to mention, if the majority of breeding didn't already occur around the dates the NCWRC is using as data to change the season dates, they would not have came up with those as the as the average conception dates.

The data shows 31.8% of the harvest for bucks in ENC are 1.5 year old bucks, so why is the NCWRC saying this is 33% in the proposals. They want it to be less than 30%, well 31.8 is close and if you can round a number up it can also be rounded down. That would be even closer to their goal. My question is why else would a number be arbitrarily be bumped up? Maybe to better push a hidden agenda? Something, is fishy either way.
 
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CRC

Old Mossy Horns
Its on the WRC web site
Timing of harvest should be anchored around peak breeding
&#8226; Most 1.5-year-old bucks disperse or leave the area they grow
up in prior to peak breeding and move 2-30+ miles to
establish a permanent home-range elsewhere. Limiting
antlered buck harvest prior to peak breeding ensures that
this exchange of young bucks across the landscape takes
place, and allows interested landowners to more effectively
protect young bucks from harvest on their property.

&#8226; A balanced adult sex ratio prior to peak breeding ensures
most does are bred at the biologically correct time and fawns
are born at an optimal time, during spring green-up. This also
ensures fawning dates occur in the narrowest time frame
which could improve their odds of surviving predation.

&#8226; Limiting buck harvest prior to peak breeding increases
competition between bucks which can lead to exciting activity
in the deer woods!

http://www.ncwildlife.org/Portals/0/Hunting/Documents/Deer/2017-Deer-Forum-Presentation.pdf
 
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The buck harvest age structure in ENC is just as good as mid-western states. We don't need changes I like just as it is.

Just curious on where they get there age structure info from here in NC?? I've never had to submit any kind of documentation on how old a buck was when I tagged it ...not getting off topic from the OP but I've seen it come up alot and just wanna know how they come up with this stuff...
 
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CRC

Old Mossy Horns
Just curious on where they get there age structure info from here in NC?? I've never had to submit any kind of documentation on how old a buck was when I tagged it ...not getting off topic from the OP but I've seen it come up alot and just wanna know how they come up with stuff...

In eastern NC it might be clubs and DMAP cooperators which would skew the data. I don't know.
 

CRC

Old Mossy Horns
Attendees of District 1 vs District 3 forums buck limit support

What buck limit do you prefer?

District Respondents 1 2 3 4 Don&#8217;t %

1 51 10% 18% 27% 43% 2%
3 52 8% 58% 6% 25% 4%

Total 103 9% 38% 17% 34% 3%

So 58% of D3 attendees support a 2 buck limit while 43% of D1 attendees support a 4 buck limit

Antler restrictions:
Antler restrictions were discussed at several of the district forums. We explained the challenges
of implementing state mandated antler restrictions on private lands given the variation in habitats
across regions and sometimes within a county. Ideally, antler restrictions should be specific to
site productivity and the antler growth potential at the site. Additionally, the 2016 Survey of
Deer Hunters revealed that there is no clear support from hunters anywhere in the state to
implement antler restrictions on private lands.
However, survey results indicated that there is
support to implement further restrictions on antlered bucks on game lands.
 

DRS

Old Mossy Horns

Yes and that is so, does get breed for predator swamping, which I mentioned above. Also for 1.5 year old buck dispersal which is "for those interested parties".

Your others are hunter preference and trust me this is not what a lot of hunters downeast want. The sad thing is many feel that it don't matter what we do, the NCWRC will do as they please, regardless of data or these hunters preference. Management other than biological necessity, should be left up to hunter and the land a hunter controls.
 

CRC

Old Mossy Horns
So is a 4 buck limit a biological necessity?

The WRC wants to improve the herd and herd health.

As pointed out support for a 2 buck limit varies in ENC.

If the WRC was bent on ramming through a statewide 2 buck limit why did they not do it back in 2000?
 
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