Help me out. - Sendero 300 Win Mag/ VX6 CDS problems

Packfan

Eight Pointer
Ok. Back last winter I just had to have a 300 Win Mag. So after a bunch of soul searching and fitting guns I chose a Sendero SF II. Cabelas was running what thought was a heck of a deal on scopes so I sprung for a Leupold VX6 3-18 with the CDS. I shot it this past spring and got it close at 200 yards to zero with Hornady SST 180 grain and put it back in the safe. Work got in the way all summer so Fast forward to the fall. I pulled it out a couple of weeks ago to truely start setting it up and I just can’t get the gun to group. I have been shooting off the same offbrand Lead Sled for years and is pretty steady. Trigger is crisp/almost to crisp and it goes bang as a surprise to me. So I don’t think I’m flinching. I just can’t get anything closer than 2-3” groups at 200 yards and 4-5 inch groups at 350 (the furtherest attempt thus far). I’m racking my brain as the mounts are tight and scope is locked in. Any ideas? I know I’m not shooting target loads but this is just not what I would expect out of a $2k combo. I’m probably 35-40 shots through the barrel and letting it cool down after every 3rd shot.

I was shooting an early 90s model 700 .270 and last years model Nikon Monarch 4-16 combo that would put 3 holes in a 1” circle at 200 and shoot decent groups at 400. I just wanted to try to stretch out my target distance. Thus the idea of a new gun.

Any ideas?
 

haywoodhunter

Eight Pointer
Have you tried some different loads in it? You may just not have that rifles favorite load. 1.5ish moa our to 350 is not really a bad group with a hunting gun even though I can understand wanting more.
 

1SHOT1KILL

Old Mossy Horns
35-40 shots down the bore is barely a good break-in for a rifle bore. Did you do a break-in or just take it out the box, slap the scope on it and go shooting?? Could be a combination of several things. One is until the bore is good and broke in accuracy may be spotty and inconsistent. Also 35-40 rounds is not enough rounds down range to determine of your rifle likes a dirty/fouled bore or a clean bore. Like stated above, have you tried a few different loads and/or brands to determine what load your rifle likes and shoots the best? You may even want to consider working up a good hand load for it. Lastly, you could have issues with your file such as the action needing to be bedded, barrel floated, scope rings lapped, etc. to make it shoot as accurately as possible.
 

TravisLH

Old Mossy Horns
When you originally shot the gun to zero, you hadn't broken in the barrel so groups will not be consistent until the barrel gets broken in. I had something similar happen with a 308, was new and shot about a 1.5 group with hornady whitetail....next time I shot it it grouped 1moa, once I hit 30 shots it opened up to 2.5 inches all with the same ammo. Once I broke it in properly, about 100shots it got consistent and I was able to find an ammo that it fired just under 1 Moa and still does.
At this point I would go buy the cheapest ammo you can find clean it fine and start breaking it in like it was still unfired, look up barrel break in and go from there.


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Inshore duck

Eight Pointer
1 moa at 200 yds is 2 inches. 3 inches is 1.5 moa. So you are shooting 1 moa per your statement. Most folks would be happy with that out of a "factory rifle" and "factory ammo". Perhaps that is as good as your equipment will allow at this time. You can make the rifle much more accurate but it will cost. I guess that brings up the question, do you need to have a .25 moa rifle to kill a deer?
 
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MJ74

Old Mossy Horns
I know there are plenty of rifles that shoot factory ammo very good but IMO you get the best out of your ammo buy handloading.

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Packfan

Eight Pointer
Thanks guys. I will try some different loads. I just really thought that it should do better than what it is. Maybe I’ve just not given it enough time. I’ve never “broken a barrel in” on any gun I’ve ever bought. I’ve never had to. Maybe I’ve just been lucky up until now. And I’ve never cleaned a barrel with other than my muzzleloaders. I do clean the actions regularly on the all though.

One thing I flight to mention is that the bolt has a lot of slop/play to it while sliding in and hanging open. Seems to be tight when it is closed though. Just seems odd. I have several other 700’s and different model bolt guns that have no/very little play. The internet seems to have all kinds of info on that type of play in Senderos and it all seems to be taken with a grain of salt/dismissed as normal.
 

nccatfisher

Old Mossy Horns
Contributor
Every Sendero I have had shot excellent, but all were "tweaked" some prior to ever being fired the first shot. I am anal about breaking in new barrels. Those were all older ones though. Given some of the suff I have seen Remington put out I wouldn't say it couldn't be the rifle.
 

darkthirty

Old Mossy Horns
Have you only shot one type of ammo out of it??? I’ve seen rifles that were absolute tack drivers with one brand but terrible with another. First thing I’d do is buy 4-5 different makes of ammo and see which it likes best. My bet is it has nothing to do with the gun.
 

CBD21

Eight Pointer
I would try a few different loads and see if it helps. My sendero didn’t start really grouping impressive till around the 60ish plus round mark and a few different loads tried. It would shoot .5” or better after that at 100yds it also had a loose bolt as you mentioned.
 

41magnum

Twelve Pointer
Have you only shot one type of ammo out of it??? I’ve seen rifles that were absolute tack drivers with one brand but terrible with another. First thing I’d do is buy 4-5 different makes of ammo and see which it likes best. My bet is it has nothing to do with the gun.

^^this or ask guys who own that particular gun on www.go2bgo.com You will find forums for every make of firearm........over 80 forums.
 
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hog&deerhunter

Ten Pointer
To the OP: so you are not happy shooting ~ 1 MOA out to 300 yards with an out of the box gun? Really? No, really?

There is nothing wrong with your rifle or scope. Work on handloads or try other factory loads if you must, but don't do anything else until you try that.
 
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Packfan

Eight Pointer
To the OP: so you are not happy shooting ~ 1 MOA out to 300 yards with an out of the box gun? Really? No, really?

There is nothing wrong with your rifle or scope. Work on handloads or try other factory loads if you must, but don't do anything else until you try that.

You misread the post or I failed to accurately explain my frustrations. I didn’t say anything about being disappointed in the gun shooting Moa. It is doing as advertised. I’m disappointed that it will not group. There is a vast difference in shooting moa at a central point on a target and for illustration say being off 3” at 300 yards on the first shot then turning around on the next shot and being 3” off to the left of said central point without moving a click on the scope. That’s a 6” difference And 3 shot groups have no pattern as I am accustomed to.

I picked up a couple of different boxes of bullets this week and will try them out on a calm day soon. On a side note, I ran into a buddy at a meeting this week who shoots quite a bit of 3 gun and long range matches. He mentioned that one of his hunting Senderos had the same symptoms when new and that one of the action screws was not torqued all the way down. He tightened it and it’s now a shooter. So I will check that also. Will update once I shoot it.

Thanks for the help.
 

woodmoose

Administrator
Staff member
Contributor
,,,,,,,I just can’t get the gun to group. I have been shooting off the same offbrand Lead Sled for years and is pretty steady. Trigger is crisp/almost to crisp and it goes bang as a surprise to me. So I don’t think I’m flinching. I just can’t get anything closer than 2-3” groups at 200 yards and 4-5 inch groups at 350 (the furtherest attempt thus far). ,,,,,,,,,

To the OP: so you are not happy shooting ~ 1 MOA out to 300 yards with an out of the box gun? Really? No, really?

There is nothing wrong with your rifle or scope. Work on handloads or try other factory loads if you must, but don't do anything else until you try that.


You misread the post or I failed to accurately explain my frustrations. I didn’t say anything about being disappointed in the gun shooting Moa. It is doing as advertised. I’m disappointed that it will not group. There is a vast difference in shooting moa at a central point on a target and for illustration say being off 3” at 300 yards on the first shot then turning around on the next shot and being 3” off to the left of said central point without moving a click on the scope. That’s a 6” difference And 3 shot groups have no pattern as I am accustomed to.

hog&deerhunter was correct based on your original post,,,,,you said (bold above) that you were getting "2-3” groups at 200 yards and 4-5 inch groups at 350" - that's near MOA,,,,

you failed to describe that issue in your original post,,,,so what you meant was your getting 6" groups? or no groups at all and the impact is just willy nilly with no rhyme nor reason?

scope mounted correctly? Check those action screws as you indicated,,,,if all that's correct then this next item isn't popular with most people,,,,but I have had it proven too many times,,,,,,,check your shooting as that is where I'd start,,,,have a known good shooter of large caliber/magnum calibers try it,,,,if you really want to find out,,,,,or don't,,,,,
 

nchunt101

Ten Pointer
hog&deerhunter was correct based on your original post,,,,,you said (bold above) that you were getting "2-3” groups at 200 yards and 4-5 inch groups at 350" - that's near MOA,,,,

you failed to describe that issue in your original post,,,,so what you meant was your getting 6" groups? or no groups at all and the impact is just willy nilly with no rhyme nor reason?

scope mounted correctly? Check those action screws as you indicated,,,,if all that's correct then this next item isn't popular with most people,,,,but I have had it proven too many times,,,,,,,check your shooting as that is where I'd start,,,,have a known good shooter of large caliber/magnum calibers try it,,,,if you really want to find out,,,,,or don't,,,,,

This. I shot a 7mm Mag for years. When I bought a cheap .243 I noticed my groups shrank considerably. I know shoot either a .308 or 6.8 SPC II. Granted I could keep five shots in a dinner plate at 400 yds with the 7mm but the combo of recoil and muzzle blast hurt my shooting.
 

bryguy

Old Mossy Horns
Those leupold VX6s are notorious for issues like you described. I would put a known good scope on that rifle and see what it would do before I would start worrying with the gun itself.


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41magnum

Twelve Pointer
Those leupold VX6s are notorious for issues like you described. I would put a known good scope on that rifle and see what it would do before I would start worrying with the gun itself.


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agreed.....plus, too much scope for that cartridge anyway

Tightening ALL SCREWS should be done before the first shot is taken.

NEVER trust screws to stay tight...that's why you mark them with a prick punch once in place. Trusting the knuclehead at a factory isn't a good idea.
 

deerhunter28

Ten Pointer
True the action
Glass bed
Make sure head spacing is in spec
Trigger job
Make sure stock is torque correctly before and after each range session with a inch pounds torque wrench.

Confirm base and rings are installed correctly.
Use High quality base and rings.
Several out there.
Nightforce is what I used.



Have a pro to do the above with a good scope and it should shoot.

I did the above on a 700 Police 300 Win Mag.
It will shoot .75 MOA if I do my part.

If the above don’t work get another barrel and a McMillan or Manners stock.

Just my option.


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bryguy

Old Mossy Horns
True the action
Glass bed
Make sure head spacing is in spec
Trigger job
Make sure stock is torque correctly before and after each range session with a inch pounds torque wrench.

Confirm base and rings are installed correctly.
Use High quality base and rings.
Several out there.
Nightforce is what I used.



Have a pro to do the above with a good scope and it should shoot.

I did the above on a 700 Police 300 Win Mag.
It will shoot .75 MOA if I do my part.

If the above don’t work get another barrel and a McMillan or Manners stock.

Just my option.


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I think I would start smaller and work out honestly. I have yet to see a gun that required a total rework like was posted above to get sub moa accuracy out of. Most of the time a skim bed, tuning the trigger and good handloads will get it done for a hunting rifle or anything other then a bench rifle or a long range precision rig. Heck even a sub moa gun will ring steel at 1000 yds.....you don’t need a hyper accurate gun to kill a deer or punch targets at 1k.

So as to the op, how can you say the gun shoots moa yet then post that one shot goes here and then the next shot is 6 inches away? First thing I would do is pull the mounts and scope, go over the mounts and make sure they are properly installed, torqued to specs and then I would grab a known, proven scope and mount it and shoot the gun and see what happens. If it groups, then send the VX6 back to leupold, have them fix it then sell it because the VX6 does not have a good reputation for reliability. I would take that money and buy the best proven optic you can afford. There are several brands out there that are great and proven and built like tanks.


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Factory rifle, can't expect much better than what your getting, glass bed it and keep shooting

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MJ74

Old Mossy Horns
Its a Sendero....it should be accuarate as all get out.
Thats not to much scope for that rifle, a 300 will reach waaaaayyy out there so I can understand the need/want for a high power scope.
Also a 300 in a heavy Sendero doesn't kick to bad.
Just make sure everything is tight and then handload up some ammo and you should be good.

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I just sent a sendero back to Remington 5in groups @100yrds. All the spent casings have indentation on the neck from a burr in the throat. Waiting to get it back now. I thought the gun looked good but can't believe they put the cheap looking matte stainless on the bottom metal. I suspect the m700 isn't what it used to be

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Inshore duck

Eight Pointer
True the action
Glass bed
Make sure head spacing is in spec
Trigger job
Make sure stock is torque correctly before and after each range session with a inch pounds torque wrench.

Confirm base and rings are installed correctly.
Use High quality base and rings.
Several out there.
Nightforce is what I used.



Have a pro to do the above with a good scope and it should shoot.

I did the above on a 700 Police 300 Win Mag.
It will shoot .75 MOA if I do my part.

If the above don’t work get another barrel and a McMillan or Manners stock.

Just my option.

So he needs to spend about 4k additional to make this a decent deer rifle?
 

Packfan

Eight Pointer
Update. I found a not so tight action screw from the factory. Torqued it down a little tighter and went back to bench on a calm day. Put about 30-40 more rounds through the gun and it is much much better. Went back to original SST’s and is “grouping” quite well at 200 yards since those are the rounds that the CDS ring is set up for. Probably 1/2”-3/4” all day long at 200. Thanks for the suggestions. Never in a million years would i have though that there would be a loose screw on that gun but oh well. Everyone speaks to Remington’s quality control these days.

Gun shot well during the deer season. Took a doe at 257 yards that dropped and a 190-200 lb 8pt at 100 with a very short recovery.

Thanks again for the help.
 

bryguy

Old Mossy Horns
Update. I found a not so tight action screw from the factory. Torqued it down a little tighter and went back to bench on a calm day. Put about 30-40 more rounds through the gun and it is much much better. Went back to original SST’s and is “grouping” quite well at 200 yards since those are the rounds that the CDS ring is set up for. Probably 1/2”-3/4” all day long at 200. Thanks for the suggestions. Never in a million years would i have though that there would be a loose screw on that gun but oh well. Everyone speaks to Remington’s quality control these days.

Gun shot well during the deer season. Took a doe at 257 yards that dropped and a 190-200 lb 8pt at 100 with a very short recovery.

Thanks again for the help.

First thing I do with any gun is give it a thorough inspection and cleaning then torque everything down to factory specs. Since I have started doing that I have not had any mystery accuracy issues


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