Boone and Crockett bucks by the numbers

cheapdate

Eight Pointer
Bull. Prime example...a meat hunter is hunting a county that has 4 points on a side AR's. A big gnarly 5.5 year old 6 point walks by... He can't shoot it, and 15 minutes later a 2.5 yr old 8 follows the same trail. Boom...the deer with the best potential is dead well before his prime.

AR's only protect the 'inferior' deer.

This from the Pennsylvannia Game Commission:

"Last month everything you thought you knew about the rut was turned on its ear. Tests confirm that does breed with more than one buck and 20 to 25 percent of the time twins aren't even full siblings. Has the deer world gone mad? How can dogma decades old just be tossed aside like yesterday's trash? It's simple. We call it science and research. Sometimes theories are supported, sometimes they aren't. Up until the turn of this century, DNA fingerprinting of deer was a pipe dream. It just didn't exist. All the research supported the theory of a male social hierarchy in which those at the top won the breeding rights with any and all does that crossed his path.

With the advent of DNA technology, however, now we can "see" what we couldn't before. This new knowledge may come as a shock to us, but deer sex has been happening this way for eons. It's just taken us 100 years to realize it. So what is going on if the "prince of the forest" is just another face in the crowd?

White-tailed bucks don't have harems or territories. They form a "tending bond" with a doe in estrous, staying with her for 24 to 48 hours. Does live in small groups and bucks chase individual does. The majority of does come into estrous at the same time. That means hundreds of thousands of does need to be bred during a 2-week period. Because bucks don't have harems or territories, they are stuck courting one doe at a time. That leaves the door wide open for all bucks to find one of those hundreds of thousands of does looking for a romantic encounter. No matter how dominant a buck is, he can be in only one place at one time.

Okay, but certainly the larger, more dominant bucks do more of the breeding. Sorry. An ongoing long-term study shows that most males only sire one fawn per season, and over their breeding lifespan, the average isn't even two. The most successful bucks still have few fawns, and breeding success cannot be predicted by antler characteristics. Yearling males, despite holding the lowest position on the deer dominance totem pole, even breed. In fact, yearlings are part of the breeding scene in all populations studied, even those with a large portion of males 3.5 years and older.

In the end, deer will keep having sex like they always have with no regard to our silly theories and assumptions. Everybody gets in on the action, so let the romance continue."
 

QBD2

Old Mossy Horns
This from the Pennsylvannia Game Commission:

"Last month everything you thought you knew about the rut was turned on its ear. Tests confirm that does breed with more than one buck and 20 to 25 percent of the time twins aren't even full siblings. Has the deer world gone mad? How can dogma decades old just be tossed aside like yesterday's trash? It's simple. We call it science and research. Sometimes theories are supported, sometimes they aren't. Up until the turn of this century, DNA fingerprinting of deer was a pipe dream. It just didn't exist. All the research supported the theory of a male social hierarchy in which those at the top won the breeding rights with any and all does that crossed his path.

With the advent of DNA technology, however, now we can "see" what we couldn't before. This new knowledge may come as a shock to us, but deer sex has been happening this way for eons. It's just taken us 100 years to realize it. So what is going on if the "prince of the forest" is just another face in the crowd?

White-tailed bucks don't have harems or territories. They form a "tending bond" with a doe in estrous, staying with her for 24 to 48 hours. Does live in small groups and bucks chase individual does. The majority of does come into estrous at the same time. That means hundreds of thousands of does need to be bred during a 2-week period. Because bucks don't have harems or territories, they are stuck courting one doe at a time. That leaves the door wide open for all bucks to find one of those hundreds of thousands of does looking for a romantic encounter. No matter how dominant a buck is, he can be in only one place at one time.

Okay, but certainly the larger, more dominant bucks do more of the breeding. Sorry. An ongoing long-term study shows that most males only sire one fawn per season, and over their breeding lifespan, the average isn't even two. The most successful bucks still have few fawns, and breeding success cannot be predicted by antler characteristics. Yearling males, despite holding the lowest position on the deer dominance totem pole, even breed. In fact, yearlings are part of the breeding scene in all populations studied, even those with a large portion of males 3.5 years and older.

In the end, deer will keep having sex like they always have with no regard to our silly theories and assumptions. Everybody gets in on the action, so let the romance continue."

What's your point? You can't control genetics in a wild herd and we all (well most of us anyway) realize that.

There are 3 types of bucks, genetically deficient, genetically average , and genetically superior. Antler restrictions only protect one class out of those 3 choices.
 

cheapdate

Eight Pointer
What's your point? You can't control genetics in a wild herd and we all (well most of us anyway) realize that.

There are 3 types of bucks, genetically deficient, genetically average , and genetically superior. Antler restrictions only protect one class out of those 3 choices.

You summed up my point perfectly. Can't control genetics, but can control buck birthdays.
 

darkthirty

Old Mossy Horns
Then why do most high-fence operations offer cull hunts for less diserable racks? Using your logic, there should be no "cull bucks" because eventually only trophy bucks would be breeding. The fly in the ointment of deer herd management, is there is no way to tell if a doe is capable of producing a trophy rack or not. And in the final analysis, the doe has a half a say in the matter.

So are we talking high grading or “cull bucks”?? I never said a thing about cull bucks. I also happen to believe there is no such thing as a “cull buck” but probably for different reasons.
 

darkthirty

Old Mossy Horns
Then why do most high-fence operations offer cull hunts for less diserable racks? Using your logic, there should be no "cull bucks" because eventually only trophy bucks would be breeding. The fly in the ointment of deer herd management, is there is no way to tell if a doe is capable of producing a trophy rack or not. And in the final analysis, the doe has a half a say in the matter.

I also believe your definition of high fence and mine are different. I have very good friends who manage high fence operations in Texas. There is never a need to “cull” any deer out of their high fence operations because it’s about as controlled a scenario as it could possibly be. The bucks that are shot in their high fence operations are there for one reason and one reason only. To be shot. Yes, they also have a ton of does in there and the bucks do breed the does. But they don’t shoot any buck that’s born in the pens until he is mature just like any other highly managed free range hunt would do. The only “culling” they do in their high fence area is on does when deemed there are too many. Then, they’re either shot or shot with a net from a helicopter and moved to another enclosure. Their high fence area is roughly 4000 acres.

To answer your question though. Why do places have hunts for culls? Main reason is because people will pay to do it and most deer hunters in general are idiots that’ll part with their money easily over antlers.
 

QBD2

Old Mossy Horns
You summed up my point perfectly. Can't control genetics, but can control buck birthdays.

I was never talking about genetics in the first place...I was speaking on available inventory.

The only true way to manage is age, and AR's only hurt in that regard. Killing your very best young bucks is the complete opposite of your intended goal.
 

scdoghunter667

Button Buck
A lot of restocking in ga DNR and private landowners a lot of deer from Wisconsin Texas and even some from nc history of the restocking is on the. Gon forum
 
Top