GA to have meetings on turkey management

hawglips

Old Mossy Horns
I sent the GA DNR an email last week. GA waited for the turkey population to decrease a lot before they even required tagging or reporting kills. I never understood that. It's arguable that the only GA mgmt plan in place was to not have a fall season so that they could have the longest spring gobbler season of any state in the union. They take pride in that tradition. But there is also the tradition in GA among some hunters of not quite being able to count to 3, since no one was asking. But at least they have now come up with an actual turkey management plan:

http://georgiawildlife.com/turkey-info

Apparently the turkey resource has not yet worked its way up the todem pole far enough with NCWRC to warrant any management plans in NC. One could argue that the only noticeable plan is to keep lengthening the season and increasing hunting pressure on them (youth week, Sunday), against the recommendation of the biologists. As oldest school is fond of pointing out, NC turkeys are on their own.
 

wolfman

Old Mossy Horns
As long as the harvest continues to increase, I doubt the NCWRC will do anything. The added pressure certainly plays a role in that increase. One would hope the NCWRC gets more involved in our turkeys instead of waiting for significant drop in population or harvest.
 

CRC

Old Mossy Horns
I believe they are doing some kind of gobbling survey but not sure what else.

NC was/is behind the other southern states in terms of restoring our population so I would think we could learn from other states like GA
 

oldest school

Old Mossy Horns
I finally saw one saturday in suitable turkey habitat, habitat that the NCWRC said was fully occupied 10 years ago. LOL

our saving grace as a state right now is that we did lag other states that did have a saturated population.

ours still is growing so God forbid we should be having the slumps the historically good southeast states have.
 

hawglips

Old Mossy Horns
our saving grace as a state right now is that we did lag other states that did have a saturated population.

ours still is growing so God forbid we should be having the slumps the historically good southeast states have.

Funny how what we complained about (slow getting started) is now the only reason we are riding on the crest of the wave while the others are troughing. VA seems to be an exception.
 

ginn68

Button Buck
Georgia normally is very sound with their decisions around turkeys. Hopefully that will continue.
 

hawglips

Old Mossy Horns
Georgia normally is very sound with their decisions around turkeys. Hopefully that will continue.

It's hard to reconcile that with not requiring any sort of tag or reporting, in my view. I never could figure how they figured that was a good idea.
 

oldest school

Old Mossy Horns
Funny how what we complained about (slow getting started) is now the only reason we are riding on the crest of the wave while the others are troughing. VA seems to be an exception.

This is true. what was interesting to me was the past bio preparing us a couple of years ago for the 'inevitable decline": while the population estimate and kill was rising big time.

my non degreed wildlife biology logic thought was that it took decades for the other southeastern states to decline so that should hold here. Long time to crash if you havent peaked yet.

but hey that is a poor uneducated non knowing layman's take. what do we know? LOL
 
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gobbler

Eight Pointer
last i hunted alabama they didnt require u to tag them either, and as for the nc population while birds are showing up in new areas, areas that once had decent populations are in the decline, dont hear much about that all we hear about is the rise in the ppopulation, its onthe rise because we have/ had so much land that is turkey-less and we are gaining new hunters by leaps and bounds, were nearing our peak, unless things change with the folks in charge, 5 years from now we are gonna be in real trouble
 

CRC

Old Mossy Horns
Why are we going to be in trouble? Turkey populations inevitably decline at some point once the habitat is saturated.

Only so much food and habitat
 

gobbler

Eight Pointer
because our seasons and limits are politically based not biologically based, and when we do start to decline our great state will not show the concern or wisdom needed to turn it around, people arent driven by care anymore, its money, there are people in high places that could care less about the turkey population in your area, as long as there personal area has plenty everything is fine
 

CRC

Old Mossy Horns
Good point about our spring seasons being politically set and not biologically set.
 

hoyt85

Six Pointer
because our seasons and limits are politically based not biologically based, and when we do start to decline our great state will not show the concern or wisdom needed to turn it around, people arent driven by care anymore, its money, there are people in high places that could care less about the turkey population in your area, as long as there personal area has plenty everything is fine

What would our seasonal structure and bag limit look like if we were to base it strictly on biology and not politics?
 
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oldest school

Old Mossy Horns
Why are we going to be in trouble? Turkey populations inevitably decline at some point once the habitat is saturated.

Only so much food and habitat

not really. or those southeast boys would not still have five bird limits. their dismay is relatively new and they have had turkeys for decades and decades. they thought their population was stable not decreasing, now it appears it is.

NC has not had suitable habitat inhabited until recently. so we should not see that decrease until a long time after they did. unless of course the decrease is disease related. I have no clue on that.
 

gobbler

Eight Pointer
sc decreased there limit because a guy with power was having a tough time up in newberry killing birds, even though the biologist and the inventer of the spreading net to trap and relocate turkeys wrote letters to the contrary

nc didnt have suitable habitat until recently????
if anything our habitat is diminishing yearly as we continue to rape the woods and what really gets me scratching my head is when they rape/clearcut a section of public land that once held birds then put up a giant sign saying habitat restoration site sponsored by the nwtf, and this is happening all over the southeast, huh...maybe thats the problem
 
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gobbler

Eight Pointer
What would our seasonal structure and bag limit look like if we were to base it strictly on biology and not politics?

i believe seamster said to optimize the growth and sustainability of our turkey population that our season should more closely mirror that of va's , ie. open and close roughly a week later than it does, the ncwrc went the exact opposite direction and opens the season up a week even earlier
 

CRC

Old Mossy Horns
Yep the youth season actually opens 2 weeks earlier than it should based purely on biology
 

CRC

Old Mossy Horns
sc decreased there limit because a guy with power was having a tough time up in newberry killing birds, even though the biologist and the inventer of the spreading net to trap and relocate turkeys wrote letters to the contrary

So the changes to the turkey seasons in SC did not have the support of the DNR? Interesting.
 

turkeyfoot

Old Mossy Horns
i believe seamster said to optimize the growth and sustainability of our turkey population that our season should more closely mirror that of va's , ie. open and close roughly a week later than it does, the ncwrc went the exact opposite direction and opens the season up a week even earlier

NC and Va season has opened same weekend for years so the opening does mirror except NC season is shorter
 

hoyt85

Six Pointer
Correct. The only differences other than the extra week Virginia gets is they only allow a youth weekend, as opposed to a week long youth season in NC. That and Virginia's first three weeks you can only hunt until noon, the last 2 weeks you can hunt all day. Where as in NC you can hunt all day from the start to the closing date.

I'm just curious as to what the biology, not politics, shows should be the structure for our bag limits and season structure here in NC.

SC recently changed their season structure where the low country opened in the middle of March, while the upstate had an opening date of April 1st with a bag limit of 5 birds. Now they sart a few days later in the low country, while the upstate has a very early opener based on historical start dates. They have also added a few days on the tail end of the season, even though they reduced the bag limit from the traditional five to three. However, on public land, you still have the historical start dates of April 1st...statewide. I'm not sure I understand how you can reduce the bag limit but lengthen the season and claim it's for the good of the species. Even more I'm not sure I understand the logic behind it, other than politics.

Our TN brothers have a start date on April 1st as well statewide.

So "historically" between SC ( upstate only ), TN, NC and VA, all four states have had basically a weeks variance between the openers and closers. The only differences being the bag limits and the hours you're allowed to actually hunt, VA being the exception.

So what should NC's dates be based purely on biology....that is my question????
 
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