Nurse arrested

Buxndiverdux

Old Mossy Horns
Nurses are licensed and take their jobs seriously. Understanding the law and procedure are paramount in todays world.


I'm not insinuating that LEO's don't do the same. So don't get all bent on me. :)
 

Tipmoose

Administrator
Staff member
Contributor
This thread will not turn into a leo bashing fest despite the efforts from the usual suspects. Just making that clear.
 

dlbaile

Ten Pointer
Not saying the officer was right by no means,but as to the reply where the gentleman stated getting laid off from his $30,000 a year job how many of us would do that job nowadays,putting your life pretty much on line everyday.
 

Tunanut

Ten Pointer
Well at least the hospital doesn't have to worry about officer Payne bringing the vagrants to them. He's been let go from his paramedic job, apparently they don't have a union.
 

JONOV

Old Mossy Horns
I'm a nurse and paramedic, she showed him the hospital policy that she was abiding by and he arrested her after that. If I were her I wouldn't have taken the blood, I would have just put my hands behind my back when he asked, and shut my mouth, wrong or right. If she wasn't so dramatic about it the video, it would not be news. She's back at work already and atleast 2 officers aren't.

That's the thing though...She showed him a printout of the policy...Then she did "back away" while the officer came up to her saying "we're done here" and drags her off...

  • Officer wants to draw blood
  • She shows him a printout of the policy, documenting that they need a court order, patient needs to be under arrest, or consent, the very policy that was developed in conjunction with Salt Lake City PD
  • She asks the officer if the patient is under arrest, the officer says no
  • The Nurse calls her supervisor
  • The officer threatens the nurse with the Supervisor on speaker phone, and the Hospital supervisor tells the Cop that threatening the Nurse isn't the right way to go about it
  • He says "we're done here" and runs her down and handcuffs her as she tries to back away and drags her to the squad car

A few more relevant facts...The guy they wanted the blood from was merely collateral damage. He was a trucker that was hit by someone running in a high speed chase from the Police. The guy's truck was hit and caught on fire...The trucker was unconscious in a burn unit

Hospital policy doesn't trump state law, I'd need more info before forming a conclusion on this case.
This whole event could have been prevented with good shared information between all parties involved.
The nurse absolutely shouldn't have been arrested, she had no intent of committing a criminal act. That cop was just abusing his badge.
It gets a little murky...

Utah's State law has the same "implied consent" that most states do, saying that you cannot refuse a request for a test by a peace officer.

It also says
Any person who is dead, unconscious, or in any other condition rendering the person incapable of refusal to submit to any chemical test or tests is considered to not have withdrawn the consent provided for in Subsection 41-6a-520(1), and the test or tests may be administered whether the person has been arrested or not...

However, further down their statute it says that substance abuse tests (breath or blood)
must be administered at the direction of a peace officer having grounds to believe that person to have been operating or in actual physical control of a motor vehicle while in violation of any provision under Subsections (1)(a)(i) through...

So, being that the officer probably didn't have any grounds to believe the trucker was in violation of DUI laws, he wasn't going to place him under arrest...

Someone with more experience in LEO could probably enlighten me, but if they had reason to believe the trucker was under the influence, couldn't they have placed him under arrest?
 
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Ldsoldier

Old Mossy Horns
The fact that they had no grounds to suspect DUI makes the implied consent irrelevant. No matter how somebody tries to paint it that officer was wrong. Normally with these stories you can find at least some fault on both sides. That's not the case here. The nurse was doing exactly what she was supposed to do, and that cop was a total DB. What disappointed me was how many other cops just sat back and watched, doing nothing to deescalate the situation. It gets even worse if you watch the whole 20 minute video as apparently the cop's supervisor, a Lt, actually told him to escalate the situation in an attempt to bully the nurse into allowing the blood draw. Like I said before I normally support LEOs 100%, but there's no scenario where these guys weren't just wrong, but acted like complete :donk:donk:donkholes.
 
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JONOV

Old Mossy Horns
One more thought...It seems as if the Hospitals policy has been changed as a result of this incident.

When you think about the much broader impact, that's what is really noteworthy.

One heavy-handed individual crushed what was probably a professional collaborative working relationship. He erased a years old policy that was developed in cooperation with the Hospital and SLCPD. And now, the entire police force will have more hassle doing their job.
 

wncdeerhunter

Old Mossy Horns
That's the thing though...She showed him a printout of the policy...Then she did "back away" while the officer came up to her saying "we're done here" and drags her off...

  • Officer wants to draw blood
  • She shows him a printout of the policy, documenting that they need a court order, patient needs to be under arrest, or consent, the very policy that was developed in conjunction with Salt Lake City PD
  • She asks the officer if the patient is under arrest, the officer says no
  • The Nurse calls her supervisor
  • The officer threatens the nurse with the Supervisor on speaker phone, and the Hospital supervisor tells the Cop that threatening the Nurse isn't the right way to go about it
  • He says "we're done here" and runs her down and handcuffs her as she tries to back away and drags her to the squad car

A few more relevant facts...The guy they wanted the blood from was merely collateral damage. He was a trucker that was hit by someone running in a high speed chase from the Police. The guy's truck was hit and caught on fire...The trucker was unconscious in a burn unit


It gets a little murky...

Utah's State law has the same "implied consent" that most states do, saying that you cannot refuse a request for a test by a peace officer.

It also says

However, further down their statute it says that substance abuse tests (breath or blood)

So, being that the officer probably didn't have any grounds to believe the trucker was in violation of DUI laws, he wasn't going to place him under arrest...

Someone with more experience in LEO could probably enlighten me, but if they had reason to believe the trucker was under the influence, couldn't they have placed him under arrest?

Yes, if they had probable cause a crime had been committed, they could have arrested him - however, once under arrest, he must be in police custody and that gets expensive for hospital stays.

Usually, unless someone is an imminent danger, obtaining a warrant for arrest is sought and the person is arrested upon discharge from the hospital.

Either way, the officer should have either a) obtained a search warrant for blood based upon probable cause or b) sought a court order for the hospitals blood records for later prosecution.

The officer in this case was clearly in the wrong and acting inappropriately even if the arrest of the nurse had been legally justified.

I'm a career law enforcement officer. This guy was wrong.
 

firemedic54

Ten Pointer
If I read this story correctly the patient was transferred or flown to this hospital. He was previously treated either in the field or at another hospital and was sedated so that he could be treated. That being the case he will have numerous drugs that would show up on a drug screen. Opiates, and other sedative type drugs. Alcohol would obviously not have been given. With his guy also being a Paramedic he surely knows this. I think this is more ego than anything, how dare someone refuse his to follow his commands.
 

JONOV

Old Mossy Horns
If I read this story correctly the patient was transferred or flown to this hospital. He was previously treated either in the field or at another hospital and was sedated so that he could be treated. That being the case he will have numerous drugs that would show up on a drug screen. Opiates, and other sedative type drugs. Alcohol would obviously not have been given. With his guy also being a Paramedic he surely knows this. I think this is more ego than anything, how dare someone refuse his to follow his commands.

He lost his temper. Unfortunately, he's in a profession where you have to be very cautious of that. You are afforded means not normally afforded other people to resolve problems. He treated a Professional like a drunk on a corner. Can't do that...
 

Ldsoldier

Old Mossy Horns
Yes, if they had probable cause a crime had been committed, they could have arrested him - however, once under arrest, he must be in police custody and that gets expensive for hospital stays.

Usually, unless someone is an imminent danger, obtaining a warrant for arrest is sought and the person is arrested upon discharge from the hospital.

Either way, the officer should have either a) obtained a search warrant for blood based upon probable cause or b) sought a court order for the hospitals blood records for later prosecution.

The officer in this case was clearly in the wrong and acting inappropriately even if the arrest of the nurse had been legally justified.

I'm a career law enforcement officer. This guy was wrong.

Thank you
 

Ldsoldier

Old Mossy Horns
Good! I love how the article points out that they shifted policy to be inline with her views. Policy views that they had already established with the hospital and she was simply enforcing....ugh....
 

GSOHunter

Twelve Pointer
Contributor
Why was the supervisor not fired? The officer told him the situation and he said to arrest her.
 

Nana

Big Ole Nanny
Contributor
I am glad this turned out the way it did. There are too many highly professional and grossly underpaid LEOs out there risking their lives to let a temper happy loose cannon like this guy work as a LEO. If he can't control his temper with a calm, reasonable professional person, then he is not likely to be able to in the highly charged situations LEOs have to face every day. Bad apple out of LEO barrel! Good job.
 

Pirate96

Twelve Pointer
He told the officer to make an unlawful arrest.
Agreed and it was wrong. Still the supervisor was demoted so there was a price paid. Hopefully he learns from it.

Still think there is some room for mistakes.



Sent from my XT1049 using Tapatalk
 

GSOHunter

Twelve Pointer
Contributor
Agreed and it was wrong. Still the supervisor was demoted so there was a price paid. Hopefully he learns from it.

Still think there is some room for mistakes.



Sent from my XT1049 using Tapatalk
By that logic the officer that arrested the nurse should get a pass. He called his supervisor and relayed everything and the supervisor said arrest her. I agree there is room for mistakes but violating someone's civil rights like was done in this situation goes beyond any type of simple mistake.
 

I Hunt

Old Mossy Horns
By that logic the officer that arrested the nurse should get a pass. He called his supervisor and relayed everything and the supervisor said arrest her. I agree there is room for mistakes but violating someone's civil rights like was done in this situation goes beyond any type of simple mistake.

No the officer on the scene should have known that he was violating various laws, and policies. The officer on the scene got what he deserved. The supervisor needed to be punished in some way as well because he had the chance to call of his officer and he did not. Not to mention that when officers go off the reservation there may be a leadership problem in general
 

Pirate96

Twelve Pointer
No the officer on the scene should have known that he was violating various laws, and policies. The officer on the scene got what he deserved. The supervisor needed to be punished in some way as well because he had the chance to call of his officer and he did not. Not to mention that when officers go off the reservation there may be a leadership problem in general
Agreed. The supervisor was punished. He is no longer supervising anyone but himself.



Sent from my XT1049 using Tapatalk
 

Ldsoldier

Old Mossy Horns
I think if the officer making the arrest had been more professional about it he would've kept his job. As it was he acted like a grade A jackass and got what he deserved. You can argue that the supervisor should've been canned as well, and you may be right. However, he was demoted from Lt which is effectively a career killer. He likely won't be promoted again and damn sure won't make Captain if he does.
 

NCST8GUY

Frozen H20 Guy
Don't you think the supervisor was already punished? Can people never make mistakes.

Sadly, in certain lines of work....the answer is NO!!! I live in the wold of 4-5 zeroes.

Also, in certain lines of work I would highly accept or keep on staff those whom have made public mistakes.....My guess is, they would never repeat them..
 
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