NCWRC to look at simplfying what defines a "blackpowder firearm" for deer hunting

CRC

Old Mossy Horns
NCWRC to look at simplfying what defines a "blackpowder firearm" for deer hunting

Thanks to newly appointed commissioner Mr Monty Crump for this. Hopefully this will remove the language that technically legalizes fixed cartridge firing firearms made in or before 1898 during the blackpowder deer season.

I have just returned home from Commission meeting. As you can see below the commission at committee meetings yesterday agreed to proposed rule change reference blackpowder definition to clear up confusion in the definition. The rule change will now go to full commission at the October meeting. The new definition is not as simple as your suggestion but it does clear up the issue of the era guns that you noted. I also discussed the game land season issue with proposed new deer season that you raised and actually staff was already looking at how the new seasons would affect all game lands in the state. I will keep up with how that progresses but I wanted to let you know that I had specifically discussed your comments with section chief. Thanks.

Best Regards,
Monty Crump
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Subject: RE: Simplify defintion of "blackpowder firearm" for deer hunting purposes

Commissioner Crump,

The language in the regulations digest was written to be an operational interpretation of the language in the administrative code. However, because that language has caused some confusion we are proposing to change the rule language. You should see that proposal later today in the Committee of the Whole meeting.

David



-------------------------------------

David T. Cobb, Ph.D.
Certified Wildlife Biologist
National Conservation Leadership Institute Fellow

Chief, Wildlife Management Division
N.C. Wildlife Resources Commission
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Mr.Gadget

Mr.Gadget

Old Mossy Horns
Why?

I just put in an email to do away with it all or go side locks only if they change from the current.
 
Downeast

Downeast

Twelve Pointer
I think it would be great to have the ability to use single shot firearms of 1898 or earlier, as well as reproductions. Especially since they propose to eliminate a week of blackpowder season. And let's face it, modern muzzleloaders with good optics are precision rifles. I routinely shoot mine at 200 yards and if I do my part I can keep it within 1-2 moa. Why not pull out the single shot Sharps and go hunt!? Too me it is no different than allowing archers to use crossbows, which are becoming more refined and lethal every year.
 

bryguy

Old Mossy Horns
Well now I see that they have started back to calling it blackpowder season again..........when did they change it from muzzleooader?
 
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CRC

Old Mossy Horns
Mr.Gadget said:
Why?

I just put in an email to do away with it all or go side locks only if they change from the current.
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Sounds to me like they are just getting rid of the language referring to guns made in or before 1898. I
 

CRC

Old Mossy Horns
bryguy said:
Well now I see that they have started back to calling it blackpowder season again..........when did they change it from muzzleooader?
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2013 I think?

They changed the allowable firearms to legalize cap and ball revolvers but there was/has been confusion apparently over the rule text since then
 
Ldsoldier

Ldsoldier

Old Mossy Horns
CRC said:
Thanks to newly appointed commissioner Mr Monty Crump for this. Hopefully this will remove the language that technically legalizes fixed cartridge firing firearms made in or before 1898 during the blackpowder deer season.
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What's wrong with those firearms?
 

CRC

Old Mossy Horns
Ldsoldier said:
What's wrong with those firearms?
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The NCWRC never intended to legalize any guns firing cartridges but the language they adopted and is currently on the books says any gun made in or before 1898 is legal to use. I'm guessing this has caused the confusion.

This goes against the intention of black powder/muzzleloader seasons

Besides the NCWRC has interpreted the rule to exclude such firearms. So I'm guessing the rewrite will remove the 1898 language

As used in this Paragraph, blackpowder firearms means "Any firearm - including any firearm witha matchlock, flintlock, percussion cap, or similar type of ignition system - manufactured in or
before 1898[/B]; any replica of this type of firearm if such replica is not designed or redesigned for
using rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition; and any muzzle-loading rifle, muzzleloading
shotgun, or muzzle-loading handgun that is designed to use blackpowder, blackpowder
substitute, or any other propellant loaded through the muzzle and that cannot use fixed
ammunition."
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Emphasis mine
 
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CRC

Old Mossy Horns
Downeast said:
Absolutely nothing. But prohibiting their use during a special season keeps the closet liberals happy.
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But the NCWRC didn't interpret the language they adopted as legalizing those guns.

If you look in the regulations digest and look at the "operational interpretation of language" Dr. Cobb refers to in his email

During the blackpowder deer season, the only lawful firearms are
blackpowder shotguns, rifles and handguns. The Commission
defines a blackpowder firearm as any firearm that cannot use
fixed ammunition
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CRC

Old Mossy Horns
Downeast said:
And why can't the NCWRC change the language to legalize these guns during blackpowder season? That would be a great excuse for me to go out and buy another rifle. :cool:
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They obviously don't want to reinterpret their language to do that and instead change the language making sure they are clearly not legal.
 
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woodmoose

woodmoose

Administrator
Staff member
Contributor
Downeast said:
https://www.uberti-usa.com/1885-high-wall-rifle
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to me, that rifle, and others like it, are more "traditional" then the modern, in-line, enclosed firing system weapons that so many use for "blackpowder" season,,,,,

and that name is even a farse, since so many (dare I say the vast majority) do NOT use black powder, but use a modern, black powder substitute,,,,,,,

but then I also have advocated for just having a "deer season" and let folks decide what weapon they chose to use,,,,,,,,
 
Mr.Gadget

Mr.Gadget

Old Mossy Horns
woodmoose said:
to me, that rifle, and others like it, are more "traditional" then the modern, in-line, enclosed firing system weapons that so many use for "blackpowder" season,,,,,

and that name is even a farse, since so many (dare I say the vast majority) do NOT use black powder, but use a modern, black powder substitute,,,,,,,

but then I also have advocated for just having a "deer season" and let folks decide what weapon they chose to use,,,,,,,,
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Yep
make it a true BP or in other words true old gun style or just make it one hunting season.
 
Downeast

Downeast

Twelve Pointer
woodmoose said:
to me, that rifle, and others like it, are more "traditional" then the modern, in-line, enclosed firing system weapons that so many use for "blackpowder" season,,,,,

and that name is even a farse, since so many (dare I say the vast majority) do NOT use black powder, but use a modern, black powder substitute,,,,,,,

but then I also have advocated for just having a "deer season" and let folks decide what weapon they chose to use,,,,,,,,
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I agree. I shoot smokeless powder in my mz. No need to clean as often since I use noncorrosive primers and A5744 powder. It has a nice scope on it too. No different than a single shot centerfire rifle in my opinion. The whole concept of a "blackpowder/primitive weapon/muzzleloading/whatever" season is kind of stupid when you think about what it has evolved into.
 

Homebrewale

Old Mossy Horns
Mr.Gadget said:
They dont care about that one little bit.
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You don't think so? I work in state government. I see the influence of industry in the setting of rules. Don't you think the sporting goods manufacturers and stores have lobbyists pushing for separate seasons for their products. I know that if hunting season was any weapon, I wouldn't own my crossbow and muzzleloader.
 

CRC

Old Mossy Horns
The WRC wanted to abolish the black powder season.

Hunters said no way.

Reducing it to one week is a compromise
 
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Mr.Gadget

Mr.Gadget

Old Mossy Horns
I dont see it or a big push other than local dog hunter groups and NCBA.
Most only lobby for an item like when crossbows were limited.
Some helped a little to make it legal.

If it is legal they will not have a problem at all.

If they did then you would not have states that ban rifles or gun hunting like they do now or limit it so much. There is a lot bigger gun lobby.

So they will only step up and do something if the NCWRC proposes to ban a type of hunting.

Remember there are few to none bigtime blackpowder only makers.
Most are gun companies and do everything.

The Bow hunters would try to fight it for one season any weapon but not sure it would help.
 
Mr.Gadget

Mr.Gadget

Old Mossy Horns
CRC said:
The WRC wanted to abolish the black powder season.

Hunters said no way.

Reducing it to one week is a compromise
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Really there was that much push back from hunter.....? Call BS
if there was they would not have cut it to one week.

The bow hunters will push that. But not enough.

A bet in a few years it is bow season for a few weeks then anything.

Its called taking a little at a time and wait and see.
 

CRC

Old Mossy Horns
When I went to the deer forum back in May the biologist said he would like to do away with blackpowder season.

And the 1 week season is a proposed compromise if it even makes it to the hearings
 
Mr.Gadget

Mr.Gadget

Old Mossy Horns
CRC said:
When I went to the deer forum back in May the biologist said he would like to do away with blackpowder season.

And the 1 week season is a proposed compromise if it even makes it to the hearings
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So what?

Has nothing to do with what you said.
 
Downeast

Downeast

Twelve Pointer
And I see no reason for an archery season except in circumstances where it is the only option, such as in high density metropolitan areas where it may not be prudent to use firearms. But even that is questionable.
 

DRS

Old Mossy Horns
Smokeless muzzle loader legal. Black powder cartridge guns illegal. Sure makes sense to me.:confused:
 
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nchawkeye

nchawkeye

Old Mossy Horns
It is nice to go home and hunt during muzzleloader season and not have to worry about dog hunters dropping off on your property...
 
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