Septic System Rant....need some advice!

Longrifle

Old Mossy Horns
Contributor
April 6th I sold/closed on my property in Craven Couty and began actively looking for another place. Well, May 1st I found one, made an offer that was accepted contingent on a perk test. Been fighting county environmental services tooth and nail ever since.

I had hedged my bets before I made the offer. I had a good friend, a certified soil scientist for the State, come out and perk the place for me before I made the offer so I knew what I had. He perked the whole place and we found an area, near the roadway and adjacent to an old homestead with an existing system, that should have only required a standard system and another, where I really wanted to build, that would require a mound system. I'm ok with that.

Applied for the septic permit/perk test on May 7th after being required to spend $300 to have a forestry cutter come in and punch a road and several grids for the inspector. Guess they didn't want to get their tennis shoes dirty. TWO MONTHS LATER...in Pamlico County, some of the slowest development in the state.... I finally get the results. They totally ruled out the area where I wanted to build, wouldn't allow a system of any configuration, and in the area adjacent to the old homestead where we found the best soil drainage they would still require an 18" mound.

The area nearest the old homestead is out of the question, I'd have to remove and dispose of three old buildings that have fallen to the ground. The costs would be astronomical and I don't want to be that close to the roadway anyway. The area in the back of the property is 2' higher in elevation in an awesome stand of old growth timber.

The bottom line is that if I go by the County's numbers I'm going to have to add a secondary tank, a pump station, and pump about 100 yards to the drain field. Numbers I'm getting right now are pushing $14K for a two bedroom system. That's more than the cost of the 4.25 acres of land.....

There has to be a way around this county yahoo. Somebody help me find it!
 

Colekira

Ten Pointer
Contributor
Good luck, the most aggravating times in my life revolve around the incompetence of local government and a superiority complex they develope with unchecked power.
I was being blackmailed to the tune of $3500 for a variance for 3 chickens and a coop. I had construction stopped for repairing an erosion issue with my driveway. Mud would flow down the road every time it rained. Construction of my new driveway and repair was halted for causing mud to get onto the road. You're gonna get extra grey hair and or lose what you have left before this is over. Best of luck.
 

witler

Eight Pointer
Years ago we had similar issues with the Inspectors in Chatham County, finally got Engineering from the State in Raleigh involved. They suggested that I hire an engineer to design a system using their ideas. The State approved the plan and overrode the county inspectors. This was some 20 years ago and the system was about $6,000.00. I know people that are having to spend $25,000.00 - $30,000.00 for systems today, so $14K in today's environment is not so bad. It seems like what type of system that is the latest trend is what they approve, I think the latest is some sort of drip system, very pricey. I still believe that an old fashioned system is adequate, tank, couple hundred feet of drain line in ditch lined with crushed stone, of course I don't make the rules or enforce them.
Good luck.
 

Longrifle

Old Mossy Horns
Contributor
Years ago we had similar issues with the Inspectors in Chatham County, finally got Engineering from the State in Raleigh involved. They suggested that I hire an engineer to design a system using their ideas. The State approved the plan and overrode the county inspectors. This was some 20 years ago and the system was about $6,000.00. I know people that are having to spend $25,000.00 - $30,000.00 for systems today, so $14K in today's environment is not so bad. It seems like what type of system that is the latest trend is what they approve, I think the latest is some sort of drip system, very pricey. I still believe that an old fashioned system is adequate, tank, couple hundred feet of drain line in ditch lined with crushed stone, of course I don't make the rules or enforce them.
Good luck.

I have a call and an email in to one right now....
 

Wildlifer

Old Mossy Horns
I work for a company with a soils department. They are pretty good at designing systems and getting them signed off. Let me know if we can help. A lot of developers use us to get things though since the state and county typically are quick to rule areas out and dont spend the time or energy to work out a solution.
 

boomer

Twelve Pointer
You can do the engineered option permit. You hire the engineer to design the system and all you do is notify the county that you are using the engineer option permit route instead of using the county.
 

Longrifle

Old Mossy Horns
Contributor
That's the route I'm trying to take boomer, finding an engineer to do it has been problematic so far. Where would I look?
 

nccatfisher

Old Mossy Horns
Contributor
That's the route I'm trying to take boomer, finding an engineer to do it has been problematic so far. Where would I look?
Do you know a PE? If so he could handle it. I know two but they aren't close to you.
 
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catfishrus

Twelve Pointer
I just put in a pump system here for $8500 on a 3 br. house. Two tanks(one is a pump tank) and 320 ft of chambers. Pumping about 75-100 ft. $14000 sounds high to me...don't know.
 

boomer

Twelve Pointer
I so not know anyone in your area but I do know that a lot of engineer option permits have been issued in Pender and Onslow Counties ,so I would look in that area for someone.
 

Soilman

Old Mossy Horns
Contributor
LR, did you get the list of Licensed Soil Scientist I sent you? Some of them should be able qualified to design systems also.
 

Longrifle

Old Mossy Horns
Contributor
I did buddy, thank you, and contacted one out of Greenville. After a few minutes conversation he referred me to a gentleman out of Richlands. He's tentatively scheduled to come over a week from tomorrow.

In the meanwhile, based on the perk test, I renegotiated the sale price with the seller, making whatever solution I'm faced with a little more palatable. I should close on the property in the next few days...
 

Longrifle

Old Mossy Horns
Contributor
I just put in a pump system here for $8500 on a 3 br. house. Two tanks(one is a pump tank) and 320 ft of chambers. Pumping about 75-100 ft. $14000 sounds high to me...don't know.
There's some land clearing involved but I'm going to have to pump 75 to 100 yards. I made 5 copies of the permit today and will be distributing them to every certified installer on the county's list. Gonna find out who's hungry....
 

Longrifle

Old Mossy Horns
Contributor
Lol, have you been to Pamlico County lately? 55% of the county has to leave to go to work! That's why I had a hard time believing I would be waiting 5 weeks for a perk test....
 

witler

Eight Pointer
Suggestion, if there clearing done, get your perk test done first. We cleared before our perk test and lost 4-6 inches of top soil in the clearing process.
 

Longrifle

Old Mossy Horns
Contributor
Makes sense witler, especially if there's a heavy mat to be removed. That not the case here, I need some small-ish trees removed in the area where they're saying the drain field has to be installed. The rest of the property is huge old growth timber so there's very little understory and what's there will be handled by a forestry cutter. My plans are to make the rest of my intrusion as minimal as possible.
 

Longrifle

Old Mossy Horns
Contributor
Update on the land/septic problems I had encountered. I closed on the property last Monday after a pretty good reduction in the sale price. I also hired one of the soil scientist/consulting firms from a list provided by Soilman and seconded by dc bigdaddy. He came this morning and after a 15 minute conversation he perked numerous places on the land, from the front to as far back as I cared to go.

He came up with EXACTLY the same results that Soilman did when he was kind enough to come check the place before I made the initial offer. He offered two engineered options. Both totally bypass the County agent who wouldn't even entertain the idea of a system back near the building area. His prescription would have required me to install a pump and an extra tank in addition to the septic tank and pump 75 yards... at the closest point.... to a 16" mound..... right in the middle of my freakin' driveway!!

The first is a regular mound system virtually anywhere I want to put it in the homesite area. Totally doable. The other was to go down four feet, spread a layer of sand, and run the drain field totally underground, no visible mound. Definitely more aesthetically pleasing and depending on the price of sand, possibly less expensive as well. One installer I talked with said I'd need 25 loads of dirt just for the mound system....

I should have his recommendations in the morning, after which I'm going directly to the County and revoke the existing permit. The next step is to shotgun both of the proposed system plans to every certified installer in the area and let'em bid the system and what little land clearing I need.

Gotta say thanks again to Soilman and dc bigdaddy. You guys probably saved me from wasting a ton of money that could be better spent on upgrades to my new home....
 
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beard&bow

Twelve Pointer
Contributor
I'm glad to hear you got things sorted out longrifle. Clapping for Soilman and dcbigdaddy. Good on you two. Fingers crossed for our perc on the 1st.
 

dc bigdaddy

Old Mossy Horns
Contributor
Glad he was able to help you out.

It amazes me that the same soil that has been used for the last 100 years won't perk now according to some people.
 

Soilman

Old Mossy Horns
Contributor
I've been waiting to hear some good news on this. Unfortunately, it came while I was on vacation and I missed it until I saw the Studebaker post where you'd bought the land and did some backtracking. Glad to hear things are FINALLY working out for you. If you need hand with anything, you have my number.
 

Longrifle

Old Mossy Horns
Contributor
Lol, thanks Soilman! Well I wish it was all sunshine and flowers but it's not. After he came out, did the perk test, and explained engineered options, I've made two attempts by text in the past week to contact the soil scientist I hired. So far there has been no response and now I've been waiting a week for plans I was told I'd have the next day. I've gotta have them before I revoke the permit with the County, start clearing ground, and the Power Company will start laying the underground lines. Once again I'm on hold, twiddling my thumbs. Never seen a process where you have to work so hard to give people your hard-earned money.....

Is there something about this business that I'm missing? I've never seen anything like it, it's like we're dating or something....
 

GSOHunter

Twelve Pointer
Contributor
Lol, thanks Soilman! Well I wish it was all sunshine and flowers but it's not. After he came out, did the perk test, and explained engineered options, I've made two attempts by text in the past week to contact the soil scientist I hired. So far there has been no response and now I've been waiting a week for plans I was told I'd have the next day. I've gotta have them before I revoke the permit with the County, start clearing ground, and the Power Company will start laying the underground lines. Once again I'm on hold, twiddling my thumbs. Never seen a process where you have to work so hard to give people your hard-earned money.....

Is there something about this business that I'm missing? I've never seen anything like it, it's like we're dating or something....
Hopefully he just went on vacation.
 
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