Farmhouse Remodeling

HuntinCop

Twelve Pointer
Long story short, my wife and I have had our eye on an old farmhouse near where we live now that has been empty for years. I hunted down the owners and they live near where I work and we are going to talk more. They said they would call me first if they decide to sell it. There are some buildings on the property that need to be torn down or some huge work done to them to make them safe.

I can see a new metal roof needed on it but not sure how much if any damage is on the outside. Has anyone ever taken on a full gut remodel on an old farmhouse and if so, what are some things that I need to consider when getting estimates. Obviously an inspection would be done before anything is done on our part.

Thanks for any input!
 

nckeith

Ten Pointer
Long story short, my wife and I have had our eye on an old farmhouse near where we live now that has been empty for years. I hunted down the owners and they live near where I work and we are going to talk more. They said they would call me first if they decide to sell it. There are some buildings on the property that need to be torn down or some huge work done to them to make them safe.

I can see a new metal roof needed on it but not sure how much if any damage is on the outside. Has anyone ever taken on a full gut remodel on an old farmhouse and if so, what are some things that I need to consider when getting estimates. Obviously an inspection would be done before anything is done on our part.

Thanks for any input!

As a former GC I would say this. Take a picture of the house and detailed measurements. Take 10 gallons of gasoline and burn it down. Rebuild it from scratch as a brand new house and make it a carbon copy. It will come out cheaper, faster and better. Worst project ever involved in with budget and time was a "free" house given to a client. I warned them.
I'm kind of kidding but I'm not. Unless it's a true labor of love and you can do the work on your own over a period of years. It will take longer and cost more then any estimate. Not to mention it will never be as efficient.
 
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catfishrus

Twelve Pointer
As a former GC I would say this. Take a picture of the house and detailed measurements. Take 10 gallons of gasoline and burn it down. Rebuild it from scratch as a brand new house and make it a carbon copy. It will come out cheaper, faster and better. Worst project ever involved in with budget and time was a "free" house given to a client. I warned them.
I'm kind of kidding but I'm not. Unless it's a true labor of love and you can do the work on your own over a period of years. It will take longer and cost more then any estimate. Not to mention it will never be as efficient.

I say you nailed it!
 

nccatfisher

Old Mossy Horns
Contributor
You have been given good advise. All I can warn you about is sagging/rotten/termite infested sills. Subpar electrical/plumbing, no insulation, replace all windows and doors. Probably rotted floors.

If you can see it needs a new roof that most likely means rotted stripping and rafters at the least, not counting boxing and facia. and when it is all said and done you still have an old house that CONSTANTLY needs major upkeep.
 

hunter

Eight Pointer
Contributor
Depending on age you would might need to mitigate asbestos and lead paint. Wiring, chimney and plumbing might need to be completely re-done also. That said, if it was something you loved to spend time doing it could be satisfying. Generally for most people nckeith's advice should be considered.

My uncle lived in a 1930's farmhouse that a cousin by marriage wanted after my uncle died. He planned to restore and upgrade it but no lender would touch it. However, they were happy to lend him the money to tear it down and put in a modular home...
 

darenative

Twelve Pointer
As a former GC I would say this. Take a picture of the house and detailed measurements. Take 10 gallons of gasoline and burn it down. Rebuild it from scratch as a brand new house and make it a carbon copy. It will come out cheaper, faster and better. Worst project ever involved in with budget and time was a "free" house given to a client. I warned them.
I'm kind of kidding but I'm not. Unless it's a true labor of love and you can do the work on your own over a period of years. It will take longer and cost more then any estimate. Not to mention it will never be as efficient.

Quoted for truth
 

Zach's Grandpa

Old Mossy Horns
Unless you have lots of time and more money than you know what to do with then the above advice is spot on. I've got one that is sitting empty, built around 1920, that would have to be gutted down to the outside walls. To make it livable would cost more than building a new one just like it.
 

PWR-WGN

Guest
I bought the house my grandmother lived in from the family after she passed. It was built in 1934. My father and all his brothers and sisters were raised here, so everyone was glad to see it stay in the family.

We did a complete gut and rebuild project on the home. I did a lot of the work myself, but did contract out some of the additions. We were lucky as when we pulled the carpet out and paneling off the walls, we were greeted with beautiful hardwood floors and bead board walls and ceilings throughout the house. Everything structurally was in decent condition.

With that being said, over the course of the project I have put well over 100k into this house. On top of paying the family 25k for it. So after it's all said and done I could have almost purchased a new home for what I wil have in this one. There have been some very stressful and exhausting last few years, but I wouldn't have it any other way. Money can't buy the history this house has in my family, and even though it has been updated it's just got that homely feel you can't get with a new house.
 
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aya28ga

Old Mossy Horns
Contributor
I'll second nckeith's advice. Completely redoing an old house is almost always going to cost more in time and effort than just starting from scratch. Unless your a true "do it yourselfer" who's looking at this as a long-term challenge, I'd stay away.

My wife was enamored with the idea of remodeling an old farmhouse when we moved to NC but I talked her out of it, and we never regretted that decision. Tear the old one down and build a new farmhouse-looking home with modern wiring, plumbing, etc.

And check to see if there are any underground fuel tanks on the property. You'd be amazed at how many older farms have them, and they all leak. They can prove to be a pain with codes and environmental regs.
 

DFisher

Eight Pointer
Step 1: watch the movie "Money Pit."

As the proud owner of a farmhouse built in 1860, the first issue to address, assuming you don't take others' advice and burn it down, is the foundation and crawl space. Most old houses, mine included, were built on timber or stacked rock. The rock was better, but leaves a lot of air gaps that air and animals tend to pass thru. We had a zoo under ours when we moved in. Another issue is the water system, as most older systems were not installed with good stuff, including insulation, that prevents bursted pipes resulting from the thaw after the freeze. Finally, a good review of the HVAC system is a must. For us, we found a good home with a good structure from the ground floor up, but the craw space and foundation has caused us fits.
 

GSOHunter

Twelve Pointer
Contributor
My aunt and uncle bought what they thought was a 100 year old farmhouse. They quickly realized it was older than that. The first winter my cousins glass of water froze in her bedroom. My uncle tore off the siding on one side to find out there was zero insulation. It went down hill from there. He should have lit a match and built a new one. lol
 

woodmoose

Administrator
Staff member
Contributor
My aunt and uncle bought what they thought was a 100 year old farmhouse. They quickly realized it was older than that. The first winter my cousins glass of water froze in her bedroom. My uncle tore off the siding on one side to find out there was zero insulation. It went down hill from there. He should have lit a match and built a new one. lol


reminds me of the house I lived in from 11 years old till I graduated high school,,,,,,,,slept under literally a foot of blankets and quilts!!!
 

PTman

Four Pointer
i agree w/ it being most efficient to just start over. you could always tear down and save as much wood as you could and then re-purpose it for things in the new house. the house my mom grew up in was built in late 1800's and is in horrible shape. it would be great to be able to save the original structure but it will be way too expensive, so that is our plan. try to re-purpose as much as possible. this is mostly for sentimental reasons due to the house being built by hand all by 3 generations before me.
 

ibgreen

Twelve Pointer
Contributor
As a current GC, I agree with the previous posts. Unless the home holds family sentimental value, plan on building. You can try to salvage and re-use pieces though.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Greg

Old Mossy Horns
After you have taken what you can salvage, look into donating the house to your local Fire Dept for practice. You'll save some money on taxes if you itemize.
 

ChasinTrophies

Guest
After you have taken what you can salvage, look into donating the house to your local Fire Dept for practice. You'll save some money on taxes if you itemize.

Also a very good idea.
 

NCdoe

Ten Pointer
The house we live in was built in 1884 by my great-grandfather for his new bride. We are the fourth generation to live in it. We did a major remodel in 1975. My uncle was the contractor and we hired him and his crew on an hourly basis. I drew the house plans and looked after ordering the material with him telling me what was needed. We completely remodeled the inside, moved the kitchen from the north end of the house to the south end, and added a double garage with rooms upstairs, and bricked the outside. It took us several months but my uncle let us do as much of the work as possible which included all the ordering of supplies, painting, nailing down flooring, wall papering, staining cabinets, etc. It was a wonderful experience and I loved every minute of it. It isn't a new house but it holds so many memories. Family members love to visit because they call it "home".
 

mekanizm

Old Mossy Horns
Contributor
The biggest challenge is having an accurate idea of exactly what is involved from the very beginning. Underestimating is almost always the case because so many things are hidden and true costs are twice what one thinks. In my case I bought a brick house built in 1966 that was in a great location and the inspection revealed a very solid foundation. From there I knew I could handle the rest because I would be doing all the labor. I replaced 100% of the wiring (aluminum) and 100% of the plumbing (corroded cast iron). I also ripped out the kitchen and the bathroom, all the windows, half the doors and half the walls to combine rooms. It took several years and it was only 1200 ft^2. The last 5% was the hardest because I was sick of it by then, lol. This was a far cry from a "farmhouse" too. Any substantial foundation rot would have been a game-changer for me. If I was paying for the labor I couldn't have afforded it and would be upside down. I still own the house (rental) and don't regret doing it but I'm older and wiser now and wouldn't do it again.
 

LanceR

Six Pointer
Contributor
HC, Unless the property and house are of a good enough quality and in a good enough location to have even a slight chance of ever getting your money out of the project you need to be comfortable with doing a huge amount of work and having a great expense and a lot of frustrations with a guaranteed financial loss.

I've been a finish and trim carpenter and custom stair builder all my life and in later years both built and managed custom home construction projects. 21 years ago we tackled a 3,700 square foot 7 bedroom farmhouse (she had 4 kids, I had 2) and we still have things we could be working on.

We spent 5-6 years looking for a farm or other property with a big house and big outbuildings (for shop space and a collection of antique tractors and militay vehicles). We found a 92 acre place wit h11,000 square feet of newer steel buildings with concrete floors. The house was quite rough but it had "good bones" and was well built by a wealthy family in 1888. Two load bearing walls had been removed but otherwise the structure was good. The stone foundation and basement were good.

The roof leaked so badly that there were buckets in the attic. The whole farm was on a 60 amp electrical service. The owner of 27 years had not done anything inside the house but install built in barn wood kitchen cabinets and panel the family room (a small former barn attached to the house as the woodshed years ago) in barn wood. All three porches were falling apart. Some of the rooms didn't have electrical receptacles and several didn't have heat ducts.

But,the house has 11" high oak and chestnut baseboards, wide window and door moldings, solid raised panel wainscotting in the main dining room, a big brick arch over the cook-top and modern double wall ovens, 7-1/2' high doors (several French doors downstairs), both staircases intact (including the quite ornate front one with a three sided wrap around gallery) and the quality of the doors and trim continue throughout both up and down.

We were advised to burn it down and start over. One friend even offered to leave me a big excavator with thumb to tear it down.

As you can guess, Nancy fell in love with the house and the dummy that hangs out with her fell in love with the outbuildings. You can guess most of the rest.


Year 1. Move in in February, discover the furnace can't keep up with the drafty windows and lack of insulation (the curtians blow when it's windy). Put the kids in the back few room that we CAN heat. Mom and Dad sleep in snowmobile suits at the other end of the house.

Tear off all three porches as the inspector for the only insurance company that would even consider a remodeling insurance falls through the front porch floor (fortunately only 24" above grade). We had to remove the porches and install a new electrical service to get the remodeling insurance. So....arrange for backhoe with operator by trading the labor to replace his staircase and handrail. Make a big pot of chili and lots of coffee (It's winter in Central New York), buy beer. Trench new electrical services to house, carriage house and new main shop building (former 5,800SF machinery building without power) Get lucky that friend who is a foreman at the utility company and brings digger derrick truck and two "good" used power poles to get power overhead to shop. $3,500 and a few after work hangovers......

Great, we have insurance and power......Wait for spring.......Hire roofer to do the 12/12 pitch roof (45 degrees), remove an abandoned chimney and rebuild the working chimney above the roof line. Tear off three layers of asphalt shingles from the front half of the house and two layers and the original cedar shakes off the rear. Re-sheath the roof with new plywood, install lead coated copper valleys and flashings, 40 year architectural shingles. Add rooftop hatch next to chimney to clean the flue for thecombination wood/oil furnace. $18,000

Realize that nearly all the glazing compound from around 50 windows is gone-no wonder it's drafty. Most windows are 6' tall (did I mention the more than 9' ceilings throughout the house....). Well, screw using a ladder for this. We'll have to repair the soffits and replace the siding eventually anyway. Buy a former utility company 55' boom bucket truck with a two man bucket. Add 16 hp pony motor to run the hydraulics so we don't have to run the main engine all day. $5,400.

Add gutters and downspouts. Nancy doesn't want to see gutter hangers and I don't want to put nails through the new roof. Hmmm....weld up custom hangers hidden behind the gutters. Arrange for friend at local powder coat paint shop to powder coat hangers and install with stainless steel screws. Cost escapes me.....

Thankfully, Nancy is not afraid of hard work or heights and is tends towards OCD so after a short lesson she tackles the windows.....I get back to wiring the house, garage (another former barn attached to the house and 1050 SF on each floor), the carriage house (a small two story affair) and wire the new shop building. Now Nancy has what she calls "man hands" with callouses like mine.....Note to self: leave large bottle of hand lotion on bedside table......

There's no driveway to the shop so "borrow" a small bulldozer and backhoe from work. Dig out for driveways, lay underlayment cloth and add 600 tons of gravel in three "lifts" rolling between each layer. The cost of this escapes me but is likely $3-4,000 at the time as the gravel pit is a mile and a half away and owned by a friend who lent the truck as needed.

Run out of savings (except emergency fund), wait for field rent and realize we need to rent storage space for boats, classic cars etc to bring in more remodeling funds, give up 2/3 of new dream shop.....

Things slow down for 3-4 years while we deal with repairing or tearing down old run down outbuildings. Explore saving the 36' wide, 110' long 55' high barn which is 1/3 five floors for chickens (old egg and meat bird farm), 1/3 hay mow and 1/3 grain mill. Get $17,000 quote just to stabilize the foundation. The roof is 40 years old and we pick up shingles after every windstorm. The windows are all broken/shot out. Estimate we'll be about $200,000 into the project for a barn we won't use so leave it and move on.

Year 2-5(?) Nancy learns how to repair plaster and lath and how to plaster. She works on one room at a time while I work on other folks houses. She removes multiple layers of wallpaper, repairs the walls, skim coats them with smooth plaster and paints. Save $$ for siding and windows.

Year 6 and 7(?) Replace all ground floor windows. Build out exterior trim and wrap in aluminum in anticipation of new siding and insulation. Do upstairs windows the next year.

Year8(?) Start monster siding and insulation job. We're doing the work..... Order 5,600 square feet of siding, use the carriage house for "training wheels". Add wide white corner posts to offset dark slate siding, add wide solid vinyl boards at top and bottom of walls to avoid the big box look, solid vinyl crown moldings etc. Add six more windows (up to 48 windows now and still have the garage and attic to do....) Move on to the house. Material cost for the siding, trim for the siding and the first load of solid vinyl trim, $22,000

Years 9-12 Do one wall of the house each year. Remove the cement asbestos siding and the clapboards underneath that. Repair water damage as needed. Blow in cellulose and foam insulation. Sheath walls with 1" foil faces insulation board and tape all seams. Remover 5 piece moldings at top of walls and replace with all solid vinyl. All peaks get scalloped vinyl panels and 6 part moldings to match the original trim. Put in 6 more windows in the attic. Did I mention that I'm sick of replacing windows? Replace all three porches. Deck with composite lumber. Add beaded soffits and ceilings to match the original. All new vinyl railings throughout and new skirts under porches. Add $24,000 more in additional materials.

This went on for years and doesn't include all new plumbing in all of the buildings and all new water supplies to them or a lot of other projects.

I won't advise against a similar project but I had 25 years experience in the trades and 25 years worth of friends and favors to count on. We're getting ready to sell the place so we dug out all our receipts and we have almost $1000,000 in materials and thousands of hours of labor in the place. We did however go into it with open eyes as we had both renovated old houses before.

Hope all this rambling helps....


Lance
 
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samuelrp

Eight Pointer
Remodeling is the most expensive per square foot housing that you can get. But if you have the money, go for it.
 
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