Coyotes Are there really that many of them?

Ncgundogs

Spike
I can help anyone that has a problem with coyotes I hunt them the entire off season I'm a licensed damage control agents coyotes are my specialty either pm me or feel free to call or text 9192721422
 

ncturkeyhunter

Guest
All of this talk about low deer numbers and overpopulation of coyotes got me thinking. Are there really as many coyotes out as we think? I have been hunting for 20 years. I have hunted in alleghany, Ashe, Alexander, buncombe, Catawba, Chatham, McDowell Granville Stokes Vance and Wilkes counties. I have been running trail cameras since 2003. On average I hunt 35 days a year, small game hunt another 10 days and spend another 30-40 scouting and working my leases. Not to mention all the time I spend camping and hiking. I keep extensive journals of my hunting experiences. In 20 years I have never seen a coyote while deer hunting. In fact, I have only seen 2 coyotes while engaged in a hunting activity. I did not get a coyote on trail camera until 2010. In total, I have less than 50 pictures of coyotes on camera. A lot of them showed up in Wilkes when we had our die off. They scavenged on the dead deer. I got 3 pictures of coyotes this year and the last one was in September. I have 12 trail cameras in the woods right now in 3 different counties. If coyotes are so abundant, then why are we not seeing more of them?

Dang! Didn't see how old this post was, since 2014 TK13 and a few others have killed a pile of coyotes in Granville.
 

2boyz

Twelve Pointer
Contributor
how do we know that we have not already got to equilibrium. maybe the coyote population has peaked as well as the deer?

I dont know just asking.

Very pertinent question.

Other SE states have expressed concern about the drop in the herd size....NC has not reached this point. The CRITICAL ISSUE is that the herd size may have been dropping and is continuing to drop in NC with the confounding factor being corn piles. Kill numbers may have too much weight in measuring herd size in NC.

Corn piles are the factor that may be skewing the numbers through the SE US but particularly in NC. During seasons, corn piles artificially create points that deer congregate. CRITICAL: My guess is that the kill will not vary significantly as long as there is no change in the % of deer that regularly visit corn piles stays the same. Note that the total number of deer visiting corn piles can drastically drop but some "targets" are still there for the hunter to fill his annual needs/limit. One state, Alabama (??), used total visits to corn piles as one of the red flags. (can't find this information/link)

EDIT for clarity: Zero criticism of corn piles. Corn piles are and/or should be an asset to herd managers in NC through input from hunters. May be happening. Not sure.

CONTRADICTORY POINTS:

1. If we are accurately measuring the size of the deer herd in NC, the coyote's impact is minimal.

2. Research, to include research in NC, indicates that coyotes have a significant impact on fawns which should impact herd size.

Speculative: More information will surface over the next 12 months. Chances are that the herd size in NC is dropping and will continue to drop until hunting limits are adjusted.

Ultimately, the focus will be coyote control. Until we get away from traditional methods of thought/control, hunters (limits) will be the variable. With funding and associated support of innovative hunters, coyote control in the SE US could be a major hunting sport. Innovative thought will not come from those that measure, monitor and regulate.
 
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Ncgundogs

Spike
Coyotes are tough to kill and it is equally tough to control there population last year I killed 67 coyotes and there are still plenty of coyotes on the same 1000 acre farm there would need to be a bunch more trappers and a bunch more hunters to even start to control the population
 

oldest school

Old Mossy Horns
Coyotes are tough to kill and it is equally tough to control there population last year I killed 67 coyotes and there are still plenty of coyotes on the same 1000 acre farm there would need to be a bunch more trappers and a bunch more hunters to even start to control the population

that is the ugly truth. one dies another moves in. worse than rabbits.
 

DC-DXT

Twelve Pointer
I'm located in Harnett county but coyote hunt all over eastern NC

Must be quite a few yotes down that way, seems every time I drive I95 between Smithfield and Lumberton I see yotes that have been hit by cars on the side of the road.
 

Ncgundogs

Spike
Electronic call and diaphragm call I must be honest there are only a few calls I can do with a diaphragm that sound like a coyote but the few I can do I do well I keep practicing trying to get good enough to just use diaphragm only but I'm not there yet
 

jim67

Eight Pointer
This post was stated a little over 2 years ago and ask are they really that many yotes around?

I ask how many of y'all that got snow over the weekend used this as a chance to canvas the area for yote tracks? I did and I didn't have any problems finding that I have a yote problem. I walked on two different tracts miles apart, within 5 minutes on each I found multiple sets of tracks (some of the tracks different sizes) that appeared to be working cover where I found deer beds. I can't help but think these were packs of yotes targeting deer. I have seen yotes hunting deer, grown deer. Once I heard them when they caught the deer. Nope, I was not about to walk toward that sound in the dark.
I went out to look around and didn't see one deer track or dog track, but I didn't go to all the property. I suspect the deer are herded up at left over corn piles?
 

Winnie 70

Ten Pointer
Ncgundogs, I hunt them with electronic (Foxpro) call mostly and you have to be on your A game to get one too....they use wind to their advantage every time. Have to know where to set up to your advantage and move around...not educate them or game over. Got a trapper coming to help me out...hope he can thin then out ...suppose to be good. Thing is, there so many and you kill few more move in...dont know if there any way to get it under control. Know where a big mound of dirt/trees that was pushed up years ago to clear some land and a den down in that pile....can smell them all during time they raising their young...found deer bones been drug to their dens several times...I mean big deer...not fawns...but may have from where someone throws one out. Do believe they working on the fawns though...no doubt about that...too many big does in May/June without a fawn with her...see it more and more last few years. And in fall, not near as many small deer (fawns) as you use to see. Many of deer on corn now are mature does...less small deer...they not there.
 

DRS

Old Mossy Horns
Winnie 70, I would have to put a camera on that den for a while, then find some dynamite.
 

Winnie 70

Ten Pointer
Winnie 70, I would have to put a camera on that den for a while, then find some dynamite.
Got a trapper coming...will show him area and see what he says....may need to stay away till get his advice....hopefully he can clean it out...will see.
 

Ncgundogs

Spike
We know that 90% of the time they come to the call downwind that tells us where to set up sometimes even when we have good wind they still make us that's just part of the game getting busted just happens but knowing when to leave and quit hunting is just as important as knowing what call to use and when
 

Ncgundogs

Spike
I also think most people put there electronic out in a field and try to call the coyotes to them that's only going to work on a few coyotes when you use a call you have to let the coyotes come to you in a natural manner and crossing a wide open field is not all that natural for a couote
 

Dan

Four Pointer
There are way more coyotes than you can imagine! I've killed 18 from my back porch in a year and they just keep coming!
 

darkthirty

Old Mossy Horns
If anyone thinks your going to affect the coyote populations by "hunting" them. Your wrong. Personally, I've hunted in areas that had extremely high coyote populations but also has high deer and turkey densities. Been like that for years upon years. I guess I'm kinda in-different on it. I'll shoot'em if I see'em but not because I think I'm doing anything beneficial. Just another legal opportunity to pull the trigger.
If you want to hurt the population. Get a good trapper. Not a newbie, not a weekend warrior. I mean a d@mn good trapper. And stay on'em year round. Anyone else and all your gonna do more than likely is educate about 1/3 to 1/2 of the coyotes. You can really work on the populations like that. If serious management and control is your goal, I think your wasting your time shooting them. Yeah, it's fun, but your not really accomplishing anything.
While we're at it. I'm all for every manner of trapping and supporting hobbies and making money. But until the live market on coyotes is shut down, there's always going to be a $h!tload of coyotes in this state.
 

oldest school

Old Mossy Horns
Coyotes are tough to kill and it is equally tough to control there population last year I killed 67 coyotes and there are still plenty of coyotes on the same 1000 acre farm there would need to be a bunch more trappers and a bunch more hunters to even start to control the population


Killing that many by calling is astounding. Just read that was your method.

Congratulations.
 

Greg

Old Mossy Horns
Did a little scouting out back today. Some deer tracks ... some small dog / coyote tracks (not fresh, hard to tell).
 

Ncgundogs

Spike
Thanks oldest school I have been calling for many years and I'm not always successful I strikeout a bunch but that's what keeps me coming back and darkthirty makes a good point the whole reason behind predator control is not to kill a population they have studiesthat show that's pretty much impossible the role of predator control is to control predation and it takes quite a few kills to do that and manner of take really means nothing trapping is more effective but also more time consuming I hunt to perfect my calling
 

Winnie 70

Ten Pointer
If anyone thinks your going to affect the coyote populations by "hunting" them. Your wrong. Personally, I've hunted in areas that had extremely high coyote populations but also has high deer and turkey densities. Been like that for years upon years. I guess I'm kinda in-different on it. I'll shoot'em if I see'em but not because I think I'm doing anything beneficial. Just another legal opportunity to pull the trigger.
If you want to hurt the population. Get a good trapper. Not a newbie, not a weekend warrior. I mean a d@mn good trapper. And stay on'em year round. Anyone else and all your gonna do more than likely is educate about 1/3 to 1/2 of the coyotes. You can really work on the populations like that. If serious management and control is your goal, I think your wasting your time shooting them. Yeah, it's fun, but your not really accomplishing anything.
While we're at it. I'm all for every manner of trapping and supporting hobbies and making money. But until the live market on coyotes is shut down, there's always going to be a $h!tload of coyotes in this state.
Darkthirty, what do you mean "live market on coyotes"....selling them to be placed in a pin and run with dogs...like running fox? Hope didn't ask a stupid question.
 

Greg

Old Mossy Horns
The best thing to help a prey species survive is to improve the habitat to give them not only food, but escape and cover and concealment options.

Another way to help fawn survivability is to get the buck:doe ratio fairly even so most fawns are born at roughly the same time. The theory says you then get a short period of "prey saturation", sacrificing a few for the good of the many, rather than trickling the fawns out only to have them mostly all killed a few days apart over time. Of course, if the predators are taking down adults, that might not matter much.
 

Winnie 70

Ten Pointer
Yes, he's referring to fox pens.
How is this leading to more coyotes...they get out of pins, eventually turned loose, until "live market shut, there going to be ...load in this state"....explain? You lost me here...and may be dumb question.
 

DRS

Old Mossy Horns
The best thing to help a prey species survive is to improve the habitat to give them not only food, but escape and cover and concealment options.

Another way to help fawn survivability is to get the buck:doe ratio fairly even so most fawns are born at roughly the same time. The theory says you then get a short period of "prey saturation", sacrificing a few for the good of the many, rather than trickling the fawns out only to have them mostly all killed a few days apart over time. Of course, if the predators are taking down adults, that might not matter much.

I have read research where it is suggested that neither habitat or a length of the fawning period made any significant difference on fawn survival were predation by coyotes was concerned. I have also read that some people believe that the eastern coyote (coy-wolf) has/is adapting to be a "specialist" as a deer predator.
 

DRS

Old Mossy Horns
Fox pens: In a legal operation only coyotes and foxes legally trapped in NC can be bought by licensed fox pen operators. This equals no net gain of coyotes in NC. Most pen owners work hard at keeping coyotes in the pen, it is not advantageous to spend money and not try and secure your investment. Plus, coyotes are feed in these pens and coyotes have food source readily available. There is no need for them to escape and most don't. Heck, I have even seen a fair amount of rabbits and deer in training pens with coyotes and foxes, so I'm positive the coyotes are not hungry. Actually, I have seen a deer run coyotes off a feeder in a pen.

Importing coyotes across state lines is a violation of the Lacey Act.
 

Ldsoldier

Old Mossy Horns
Fox pens: In a legal operation only coyotes and foxes legally trapped in NC can be bought by licensed fox pen operators. This equals no net gain of coyotes in NC. Most pen owners work hard at keeping coyotes in the pen, it is not advantageous to spend money and not try and secure your investment. Plus, coyotes are feed in these pens and coyotes have food source readily available. There is no need for them to escape and most don't. Heck, I have even seen a fair amount of rabbits and deer in training pens with coyotes and foxes, so I'm positive the coyotes are not hungry. Actually, I have seen a deer run coyotes off a feeder in a pen.

Importing coyotes across state lines is a violation of the Lacey Act.

In theory you're absolutely correct. I don't believe pen owners intentionally let game out. That said I've caught bobtailed foxes before. If a fox can get out so can a coyote. I don't believe it happens often, but it does happen. Importing across state lines is a violation of the Lacey Act. It was also illegal to have coyotes in fox pens during the 90's. Being illegal doesn't always stop people. I do know some individuals have turned coyotes out in the eastern part of the state on public land for the express purpose of running them with their dogs. Call it what it is.
 
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