straightline
Ten Pointer
I must have the coyote jinx because I have never seen one while hunting in NC and have only got one on camera. This is on land in Harnett,Wake and Person counties.
Smartest post yet!! Couldn't agree more.Well I'll throw in my 2 cents. I do think the "damage" is overrated. Hunters and growth cause more damage to deer numbers then any other single factor. Period. I live on the outskirts of metro charlotte in Union County. I do see lots of coyotes on my local honey hole lease of 120 acres. But honestly, my lease is now surrounded by single family homes. Homes that were not there 10 years ago. Those deer are gone or crammed into smaller areas. The coyotes seem to like living between the suburban and rural fringes. They eat dog food, garbage, household pets etc. Its ideal for them. Deer not so much.
Just this year alone I can see probably 300-500 acres that has been cleared for new homes. For me to think a D9 dozer hasnt run off more deer vs coyote predatotion in my area is ridiculous.
I like to keep reminding folks, that NC is now the 10th most populated state in the country. Soon to be #9, surpassing Michigan. 30 years of growth and scraping and clearing and houses and second houses etc. plus more effective hunters with range finders, inline muzzle loaders, compounds, crossbows, scent control etc is catching up to us.
You can't keep having liberal doe limits, plus poachers and cars and loss of habitat and then blame a population decrease on coyotes. I think they may be a factor, but only one small piece. Who can honestly say the area they call home in NC is twice as big as it was even 10-15 years ago. Charlotte, Raleigh, Wilmington, Winston. They growth has been torrid and unabated except for the 07 recession. Now that the land from 07 is built on, they are clearing land again.
All of this talk about low deer numbers and overpopulation of coyotes got me thinking. Are there really as many coyotes out as we think? I have been hunting for 20 years. I have hunted in alleghany, Ashe, Alexander, buncombe, Catawba, Chatham, McDowell Granville Stokes Vance and Wilkes counties. I have been running trail cameras since 2003. On average I hunt 35 days a year, small game hunt another 10 days and spend another 30-40 scouting and working my leases. Not to mention all the time I spend camping and hiking. I keep extensive journals of my hunting experiences. In 20 years I have never seen a coyote while deer hunting. In fact, I have only seen 2 coyotes while engaged in a hunting activity. I did not get a coyote on trail camera until 2010. In total, I have less than 50 pictures of coyotes on camera. A lot of them showed up in Wilkes when we had our die off. They scavenged on the dead deer. I got 3 pictures of coyotes this year and the last one was in September. I have 12 trail cameras in the woods right now in 3 different counties. If coyotes are so abundant, then why are we not seeing more of them?
Hmmm... according to those articles, bobcats, bears and uncontrolled doe harvest is just as big a problem, if not bigger, than coyotes.
.... and THIS ^I'd trade yotes for my neighboring hunters. Those ***holes kill every deer they see.
Exactly dstubbsunc. The question is will NCWRC listen to hunters and take some steps to help the herd? They can't control all those things but will they change what they can control?
This is the question I have. Some states manage deer like a resource, not a nuisance. It's a fact the deer population is down, it's also a fact yotes are here to stay. Will the state help manage the deer herd or is it by design we're seeing fewer deer. If I have to read one more article about hunters not seeing deer because of mast crop I'm going to puke.
two big wild cards: ehd and coyotes: did what we hunters could not.
Personal opinion: The impact of Coyotes will play a major role in whitetail deer management decisions in the SE US. 100% chance. PERIOD.
1. Research projects in Alabama, Mississippi, Georgia, SC, NC have all show drastic impact on fawn recruitment.
http://www.grandviewoutdoors.com/big-game-hunting/how-coyotes-affect-deer/
A recruitment ratio of 1 fawn / doe would be ideal in most situations (for deer management decisions). Coyotes are documented by research to have reduced this ratio to 0.7 or significantly less in some cases (.3).
2. Alabama: deer hunting has a $1,000,000,000 impact on the state's $1.8 Billion $$ hunting industry. That's BILLION. Alabama, Georgia and SC are in the second year of a very interesting project. Cost: $1 million.
http://onlineathens.com/sports-outdoors/2015-01-15/uga-deer-lab-partner-coyote-study
Alabama, Georgia, and SC deer managers are expressing concern.
3. In the Savannah River Study and the Ft Bragg work, coyote impact on fawn recruitment was significant. These two studies have been repeatedly noted by various interested parties to have areas of poor fawning habitat.
Personal opinion: Habitat will play a minimal role in coyote predation/fawn survival. The predator/prey ratio will ultimately be found to be roughly the same based strictly on the quality of habitat. For clarity, there will be more coyotes in areas with more deer and thus, more fawns being born. Speculation: The long fawning season, not habitat, will be a major factor impacting coyote predation in the SE US.
Look at it another way. How many rabbit hunters are there per square mile in marginal habitat (Ft Bragg) compared to ideal rabbit habitat in eastern NC? Coyotes have been shown to have tremendous home ranges and the tri-state work will possibly show this range to be consistently seasonal...i.e. they move to the food and places with the most fawns/ sq mile will get the most pressure.(Pressure as in the most coyotes/sq mile.)
4. Note that the SC reference (Charles Ruth - Savannah River) noted the lack of consistent impact of predator removal prior to fawning season (trapping).
5. DRS and NC Rabbit Hunter on this forum have noted the effectiveness of hounds to consistently kill coyotes. More on this when appropriate. I saw the same thing in Missouri....very effective when supplemented with firearms.
Thoughts:
1. NCWRC is being slow to address this issue.
2. EVERY research trial in the SE US completed since 2012 has shown significant impact of coyotes on fawn recruitment.
3. Hunting / shooting coyotes with hounds during the timeframe Jan 2 - March 31 could significantly impact coyote populations in a wide-spread geographic area. Techniques would need to be developed but the key is that a SPORT would develop which translates into more hunter recruitment/$$$$ into the economy. Until coyote hunting is a consistently exciting and productive sport, we will neither impact the coyote population nor will the state gain $$$$ by attracting hunters into this sport.
4. Trapping is incredibly effective. However, until we can consistently trap coyotes over blocks of dozens of square miles, trapping will have marginal impact on fawn predation due to the mobility of coyotes to the food sources.
POINT: If we do nothing, we will reach a point of equilibrium which will significantly impact the deer hunting experience that we have had in NC over the past 40+ years.