Utah votes to ban magnifying scopes for muzzle loading seasons starting in 2024

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Firedog

Old Mossy Horns
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Mule deer populations have declined across the west.

Western states seem to care about their game populations

All other western mountain states prohibit scopes

Utah was/is the last
have they shown that doing that in the other states have impacted the mule deer populations in any way?
 

CRC

Old Mossy Horns
I think states are trying everything and anything short of no hunting at all

Looks like on further examination this change applies to all species with a muzzle loader only season
 
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CRC

Old Mossy Horns
Montana has a muzzle loading season in where no scopes are allowed/ prohibited

Muzzleloader Heritage Hunting Season

I did include them because they have a muzzle loading season that prohibits scopes (and one that doesn't)
 
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woodmoose

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Montana has a muzzle loading season in where no scopes are allowed/ prohibited

Muzzleloader Heritage Hunting Season

I did include them because they have a muzzle loading season that prohibits scopes (and one that doesn't)

you said "all other mountain western states",,,, that is a false statement, and I'm not even including your Montana spin

go back to googling,,, you'll figure it out
 

Justin

Old Mossy Horns
I haven't read a lick. Don't know the intent. That said, Rokslide Podcast they were talking about Idaho and their ML hunts where magnifying optics (or however they define it). They liked it because it still allowed a season and opportunity, but it wasn't taken AS MUCH advantage of as say some of the firearms and archery seasons, because a lot of folks didn't A)take the time to take the muzzleloader off their scopes that were legal in so many other locations or B) Didnt have a spare without a scope or C) just didnt want the added challenge of trying to shoot without sights.

The state still affords the opportunity, but without having to amass points or be stacked against some sort of more exorbitant lottery odds.
 

Buxndiverdux

Old Mossy Horns
We've got states like Iowa and Ohio allowing straight wall cartridge centerfire rifles in "muzzle loader" and "shot gun" seasons and then we have Utahrd and New Mexico restricting the use of muzzle loaders and scopes. It seems like the regs get more complicated every year.

I guess it's a product of game availability versus demand for tags? Whitetails are pests, and over populated in all habitats and western game like mule deer, elk, antelope are in shorter supply.
 

CRC

Old Mossy Horns
Arizona- scopes legal for deer
California- no scopes without permit
New Mexico- no scopes
Utah- 1x scopes
Nevada- no scopes
Colorado- no scopes
Idaho- no scopes without permit
Montana- no scopes in one season, scopes allowed in other season
Oregon- no scopes
Washington- no scopes
North Dakota- no scopes
South Dakota- no scopes

Nebraska does allow scopes

So Arizona, Nebraska and Montana allow scopes in some muzzle loading only deer seaons
 
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SKnox

Six Pointer
What about the proposed changes to the muzzle loader and gun season in western north carolina
 

CRC

Old Mossy Horns
What about the proposed changes to the muzzle loader and gun season in western north carolina

Comment against them online or go to the hearing in Clyde on Thursday

No reason to extend deer seasons at the expense of bear and small game hunters.
 

Jimbob78

Twelve Pointer
Arizona- no scopes
California- no scopes without permit
New Mexico- no scopes
Utah- 1x scopes
Nevada- no scopes
Colorado- no scopes
Idaho- no scopes without permit
Montana- no scopes in one season, scopes allowed in other season
Oregon- no scopes
Washington- no scopes
North Dakota- no scopes
South Dakota- no scopes

Nebraska does allow scopes
Definitely not worth building a muzzleloader if you can’t use it to its full potential, might as well go archery with a 3x or 4x magnifier.
 

woodmoose

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At 14lbs each for one of them guns, one is enough.

Who carries a 14# muzzleloader? Not me

Of course, I don’t have one of them fancy custom long range muzzleloaders - mine are flintlocks or caplock Hawkens,,,

I am lusting a long range muzzleloader for an Arizona muzzloader
Mule deer hunt 😎
 

Jimbob78

Twelve Pointer
Who carries a 14# muzzleloader? Not me

Of course, I don’t have one of them fancy custom long range muzzleloaders - mine are flintlocks or caplock Hawkens,,,

I am lusting a long range muzzleloader for an Arizona muzzloader
Mule deer hunt 😎
I have all ideas you can build one in the 9-10# range easy, that was my target weight and I may still build one just for taking care of cwd here in NC
 

woodmoose

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Arizona- scopes legal for deer

spin it all day long,,,, you make it sound like scopes are unlawful for other critters

Arizona has muzzleloader seasons for deer, bison, and javelina,,,,and NO restrictions on sights for muzzleloaders for any of those species,,,


the phrase you are looking for is "I was wrong,,,again",,,

go hunt some of these states you post about,,, practical experience is always better than just googlefu reading,,,
 

Packfan

Eight Pointer
I have all ideas you can build one in the 9-10# range easy, that was my target weight and I may still build one just for taking care of cwd here in NC
One could if they wanted to…. For a lot more dough though. Personally, I’ll take the weight of mine no further than I walk. I can push them 300 grain NSR’s and really don’t have any noticable recoil.
 

Jimbob78

Twelve Pointer
One could if they wanted to…. For a lot more dough though. Personally, I’ll take the weight of mine no further than I walk. I can push them 300 grain NSR’s and really don’t have any noticable recoil.
What brake are you shooting on that beast
 

Tipmoose

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Arizona- scopes legal for deer
California- no scopes without permit
New Mexico- no scopes
Utah- 1x scopes
Nevada- no scopes
Colorado- no scopes
Idaho- no scopes without permit
Montana- no scopes in one season, scopes allowed in other season
Oregon- no scopes
Washington- no scopes
North Dakota- no scopes
South Dakota- no scopes

Nebraska does allow scopes

So Arizona, Nebraska and Montana allow scopes in some muzzle loading only deer seaons
Sadly, the unwell elk-in-the-well from the seasons thread has died. Even more upsetting is the fact it ate it's own spine in a last ditch effort to stave off the bitter end. Unfortunately, it ended up giving itself CWD. Researchers blame corn.
 

brownisdown

Twelve Pointer
Contributor
Who carries a 14# muzzleloader? Not me

Of course, I don’t have one of them fancy custom long range muzzleloaders - mine are flintlocks or caplock Hawkens,,,

I am lusting a long range muzzleloader for an Arizona muzzloader
Mule deer hunt 😎
How long of range? Encore frames with brux barrels can get you to 400 or further easy. Bolt gun if you want to hot rod load it and push the limits. I don't know it all by a long shot but if smokeless your interested in glad to share what I do.
 

woodmoose

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How long of range? Encore frames with brux barrels can get you to 400 or further easy. Bolt gun if you want to hot rod load it and push the limits. I don't know it all by a long shot but if smokeless your interested in glad to share what I do.

I’ve got the build designed - oneshotonekill squared me up on that,,,, Just ain’t got around to doing it
 

CutNRun

Ten Pointer
Contributor
Probably just like the "crossbow" permits issued in NC years ago. How many of us over 40, doesn't have a sore shoulder? and can get a note from our Dr.?
Except some of us truly have messed up shoulders where we can't draw a bow and would have been shut out of bow season without a crossbow permit. Even though it is legal to use a crossbow today, that permanent crossbow permit is still listed on my Lifetime Sportsman's license. I doubt it's ever going to change, but I'm covered if it does.

Jim
 

Buxndiverdux

Old Mossy Horns
Definitely not worth building a muzzleloader if you can’t use it to its full potential, might as well go archery with a 3x or 4x magnifier.
I'm a fairly decent archer, but I'd be a whole lot more deadly, and double the range with an iron sighted muzzleloader. In no way are the two comparable weapons in any metric.

I'm not talking about the crossbow. That is an entirely different weapon. 10x easier to kill something with it versus a compound or stick bow. That said, even the crossbow is no match for an iron sighted muzzle loader in terms of effectiveness.
 

Jimbob78

Twelve Pointer
I'm a fairly decent archer, but I'd be a whole lot more deadly, and double the range with an iron sighted muzzleloader. In no way are the two comparable weapons in any metric.

I'm not talking about the crossbow. That is an entirely different weapon. 10x easier to kill something with it versus a compound or stick bow. That said, even the crossbow is no match for an iron sighted muzzle loader in terms of effectiveness.
My point was why “build” a muzzleloader capable of much farther when you can’t use it?
 
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