Training for a marathon

timekiller13

Old Mossy Horns
Despite my best judgement, I have decided I want to run a marathon. I’ve got back into running after some time off for the last 4 months but have really amped it up lately. I was only doing two or three 3-5 mile runs per week. Over the last 6 weeks, I’ve increased to running 3-4x week with distances of 6-12 miles per run.

My goal is to compete in a marathon within the next 6 months. I’m not trying to set records or qualify for the Boston Marathon. I just want to finish one and would like to average a 10:00/mile pace. At this moment my longest run has been 12 miles at a 9:50 pace. I noticed i hit a wall from miles 10-12.

Any tips and training info?? Do’s and donts?
 

agsnchunt

Old Mossy Horns
Despite my best judgement, I have decided I want to run a marathon. I’ve got back into running after some time off for the last 4 months but have really amped it up lately. I was only doing two or three 3-5 mile runs per week. Over the last 6 weeks, I’ve increased to running 3-4x week with distances of 6-12 miles per run.

My goal is to compete in a marathon within the next 6 months. I’m not trying to set records or qualify for the Boston Marathon. I just want to finish one and would like to average a 10:00/mile pace. At this moment my longest run has been 12 miles at a 9:50 pace. I noticed i hit a wall from miles 10-12.

Any tips and training info?? Do’s and donts?

be careful adding distance quickly, injuries will sneak up on quickly and leave slowly.

that wall is legitimate, but you can overcome it. As you train more, it will likely move farther out toward the 16-20 mile mark. Start introducing glycogen (run store is full of them) and see if that helps. Don’t forget that a lot of it is mental (and can still be driven by the loss of sugars). You even need those sugars to burn fat. Carb load the night before your long runs. Back in the good old days before the packaged products I used a candy bar.

only other suggestion would be to follow a plan if you aren’t. Most of them include important east periods and tapering. You can still modify to fit you.

ETA pay attention to your shoes and lower body. You will wear out a pair of sneaks much faster than you ever have. Break in the new ones on short runs before the old ones die.
 

T-Rock

Twelve Pointer
Contributor
Make sure you have a good Heart Rate monitor that measures R to R interval. Those are the most accurate.

Do a MAF test, and adjust your training heart rates accordingly.
Hitting the wall is nothing more than exceeding your glycogen stores. Most folks glycogen stores are ~90 minutes.

Exceeding Anaerobic Threshold is when you start really tapping into your glycogen stores.

Basically, hitting the wall is nothing more than exceeding Anaerobic Threshold, tapping into muscle glycogen, and burning up pretty much all you have.

To avoid the wall, try and stay 5-10 beats below your AT, and replace calories q 20-30 minutes throughout your race and all your training sessions (Hammer Gel, Gu, etc).

Only increase your distance or time, whichever method you use to train by 10% per week to avoid injury and over training. Build slowly, 3-4 week build by 10% each week, then on the 4th or 5th week cut your training volume by 50% for a recovery week. Rinse and repeat until you get to 16 - 26 mile long runs every other week.

Typical what works best for me, is to build long runs every other week which gives plenty of recovery time without injury. The older you are the more beneficial doing that is (I'm a year away from$ 60 😁).

Once you get a 6 to 8 week base phase in, incorporate intervals and speed work for several weeks, dropping back on distance. After those speed weeks are done, return to base phase again and start another build again for 6 to 8 weeks, then rinse and repeat to however far you want your long runs to be.

The MAF training works. At nearly 60 I'm starting to turn times again that I had in the 90's and early 2000's.

Lastly, I took the advice from some here and bought several pairs of HOKA's and my knees love em'


Edited to add:

A good way to think of it is this:

The size of your motor, whether you have a 350, or 454 is your aerobic training - MAF training builds a larger engine.

How finely tuned your turbo carburetor is happens to be speed work, anaerobic threshold and above.

You can fine tune the carburetor all day long but if you've only got a 350 engine to work with, you can only go so fast. It pays in spades to take it slow and build a 454 engine, lots of aerobic training.
 
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T-Rock

Twelve Pointer
Contributor
Also, if you wanna get in some hill work, every Wednesday my buddy and I run Mount Jefferson. Your welcome to come join us. Depending on where you start and finish, you can make it a 5k up to 6.5 miles. We do the 6.5 and call it our weekly "George Jefferson" run. PM if interested.
 

30/06

Twelve Pointer
I’d start with a 1/2 and then decide. My wife was pretty dedicated to it years ago and did finish one full, if you can find another insane person to join you it’d probably be helpful, be careful training in the summer.

There are very specific programs out there, I’d look around and find one to follow. Good luck. I think you’re crazy but we all are in one way or another!
 

timekiller13

Old Mossy Horns
Also, if you wanna get in some hill work, every Wednesday my buddy and I run Mount Jefferson. Your welcome to come join us. Depending on where you start and finish, you can make it a 5k up to 6.5 miles. We do the 6.5 and call it our weekly "George Jefferson" run. PM if interested.
That sounds awful!!!

Once a month I run Rocky Face in Alexander. I started off with running one lap back in March and now I’m up to 3 laps.
 

agsnchunt

Old Mossy Horns
Make sure you have a good Heart Rate monitor that measures R to R interval. Those are the most accurate.

Do a MAF test, and adjust your training heart rates accordingly.
Hitting the wall is nothing more than exceeding your glycogen stores. Most folks glycogen stores are ~90 minutes.

Exceeding Anaerobic Threshold is when you start really tapping into your glycogen stores.

Basically, hitting the wall is nothing more than exceeding Anaerobic Threshold, tapping into muscle glycogen, and burning up pretty much all you have.

To avoid the wall, try and stay 5-10 beats below your AT, and replace calories q 20-30 minutes throughout your race and all your training sessions (Hammer Gel, Gu, etc).

Only increase your distance or time, whichever method you use to train by 10% per week to avoid injury and over training. Build slowly, 3-4 week build by 10% each week, then on the 4th or 5th week cut your training volume by 50% for a recovery week. Rinse and repeat until you get to 16 - 26 mile long runs every other week.

Typical what works best for me, is to build long runs every other week which gives plenty of recovery time without injury. The older you are the more beneficial doing that is (I'm a year away from$ 60 😁).

Once you get a 6 to 8 week base phase in, incorporate intervals and speed work for several weeks, dropping back on distance. After those speed weeks are done, return to base phase again and start another build again for 6 to 8 weeks, then rinse and repeat to however far you want your long runs to be.

The MAF training works. At nearly 60 I'm starting to turn times again that I had in the 90's and early 2000's.

Lastly, I took the advice from some here and bought several pairs of HOKA's and my knees love em'


Edited to add:

A good way to think of it is this:

The size of your motor, whether you have a 350, or 454 is your aerobic training - MAF training builds a larger engine.

How finely tuned your turbo carburetor is happens to be speed work, anaerobic threshold and above.

You can fine tune the carburetor all day long but if you've only got a 350 engine to work with, you can only go so fast. It pays in spades to take it slow and build a 454 engine, lots of aerobic training.

That article was very good but seemed very deja vu-ey.

The whole time I felt like I’d read it before.
 

Eric Revo

Old Mossy Horns
Contributor
I can tell you how I do it....


Well, no I can't. I'm winded going to the fridge for a beer. You're on you're on with this one, good luck.
😁
 

T-Rock

Twelve Pointer
Contributor
That sounds awful!!!

Once a month I run Rocky Face in Alexander. I started off with running one lap back in March and now I’m up to 3 laps.

I haven’t run at Rocky Face before so I’m glad you mentioned it. Gonna have to check it out since it’s not too far from me across the Brushies. Back in the day I used to take my kids top roping there, but haven't since they turned it into a Park.

If you’re looking for a shady place to run closer to you without driving all the way to T-ville, in order to beat the heat, with some hills (nothing major), may I suggest “River Bend” park. Had an ultra runner buddy who was one of the few to finish in the top 10 of the “Marathon De Sables” and he practically lived there. He turned me on to that area in the early 2000’s, helping with my first IM race since I suck at running 😁 . Dude trained there all the time and could run like the wind. He’s since passed (GIST/ca) and you may know his wife who still works (I think she does) as a Nurse Anesthetist at Catawba.

Nevertheless, if you wanna get some shady mileage during the summer without pounding pavement, there are nearly 20 miles of trails there to run. Good luck with your training!


 

bowhuntingrook

Old Mossy Horns
I applaud you for what you're already doing. 3 months ago I set my goal for running a half marathon in Sept/Oct. It's been tough, little things setting me back, last week it was my achilles. Either way I'll be ready for deer tracking season. Goodluck sir.
 

timekiller13

Old Mossy Horns
I haven’t run at Rocky Face before so I’m glad you mentioned it. Gonna have to check it out since it’s not too far from me across the Brushies. Back in the day I used to take my kids top roping there, but haven't since they turned it into a Park.

If you’re looking for a shady place to run closer to you without driving all the way to T-ville, in order to beat the heat, with some hills (nothing major), may I suggest “River Bend” park. Had an ultra runner buddy who was one of the few to finish in the top 10 of the “Marathon De Sables” and he practically lived there. He turned me on to that area in the early 2000’s, helping with my first IM race since I suck at running 😁 . Dude trained there all the time and could run like the wind. He’s since passed (GIST/ca) and you may know his wife who still works (I think she does) as a Nurse Anesthetist at Catawba.

Nevertheless, if you wanna get some shady mileage during the summer without pounding pavement, there are nearly 20 miles of trails there to run. Good luck with your training!


I used to run 2x a week at Riverbend but don’t go there as much anymore. My neighborhood is a very good running area. Also, I had a couple incidents at Riverbend where idiots won’t keep their dogs on a leash and I’ve been chased down the trails.

I used to run Fonta Flora in Morganton from time to time, but haven’t been up that way since my work buddy/running buddy moved.

A couple of the PAs I work with keep asking me to join them. But they are insane. They run ultras. And they run fast. Like 8-9 min mile for 20-30 miles!!
 

Colekira

Ten Pointer
Contributor
I've been training for an Ironman and have 3 this year. A sprint in late July, an Olympic in August and a 70.3 in October. The biggest factor has been proper fueling and diet. I make sure that I'm properly fueled and hydrated before I set out on a run or bike ride and continue to fuel often. I use sodium tablets in my water, energy bars and energy gels. I don't over do it it, but I do it before I need it. About every 30 minutes or so. It made a huge difference in my energy levels. As said by others, only add to the length of your workouts gradually. Good luck!
 

T-Rock

Twelve Pointer
Contributor
Also, I had a couple incidents at Riverbend where idiots won’t keep their dogs on a leash and I’ve been chased down the trails.
A Taurus Judge is great to run with..., the muzzle blast alone usually deters most critters without having to put them down 😁
 

timekiller13

Old Mossy Horns
I've been training for an Ironman and have 3 this year. A sprint in late July, an Olympic in August and a 70.3 in October. The biggest factor has been proper fueling and diet. I make sure that I'm properly fueled and hydrated before I set out on a run or bike ride and continue to fuel often. I use sodium tablets in my water, energy bars and energy gels. I don't over do it it, but I do it before I need it. About every 30 minutes or so. It made a huge difference in my energy levels. As said by others, only add to the length of your workouts gradually. Good luck!
Big thing i am having trouble with is a good way to carry water/Gatorade while running. I tried a camelback and hated it for running. I tried one of those belts with water bottle holder and hated it. And I don’t like carrying something in my hand for long distances.

I stash water around the neighborhood when I run. Or if I run the golf course there are water fountains everywhere so I don’t have to worry about it then.

But yes, balancing out diet and hydration is a huge deal. I’m bad to not drink much (or any water) during my 12 hour shifts at work. And when I run the next day I can tell it!!

I’m leery of supplements and these “special” drinks/powders and gels marketed towards runners. Some of them have lots of caffeine and others have way too many additives.
 

Colekira

Ten Pointer
Contributor
Big thing i am having trouble with is a good way to carry water/Gatorade while running. I tried a camelback and hated it for running. I tried one of those belts with water bottle holder and hated it. And I don’t like carrying something in my hand for long distances.

I stash water around the neighborhood when I run. Or if I run the golf course there are water fountains everywhere so I don’t have to worry about it then.

But yes, balancing out diet and hydration is a huge deal. I’m bad to not drink much (or any water) during my 12 hour shifts at work. And when I run the next day I can tell it!!

I’m leery of supplements and these “special” drinks/powders and gels marketed towards runners. Some of them have lots of caffeine and others have way too many additives.
I eat VERY clean and stay away from processed foods as much as possible. I use Nuun tablets and Gu gels. I recently had a conversation with an ultra-distance runner and he only eats "real" food on his runs. He packs pb&j sandwiches and candy bars. Whatever works! I notice a HUGE difference when I'm properly fueled and when I'm not. A few weeks ago I set out to run 9 miles and barely got through a 5K because I left my home on an empty stomach and only drank a cup of coffee. I had 1/2 a bottle of water on the way to the trail. DUMB! Figure out what works best and set yourself up for success. Stash food, water, do loops to your vehicle and keep a cooler with your supplies. I'm grateful for those 3 pockets in cycling jerseys because they can store lots of food!. FYI, I start all my training sessions with at least 1 banana, 1 coffee and a pint of water. I read lots of articles and watched a bunch of YouTube videos and figured out what works best for me. I'm still switching things up here and there. It never ends! I'm 47 and still learning.
 

timekiller13

Old Mossy Horns
@Colekira its definitely a lot of experimenting. But you right, not being properly fueled up makes a huge difference. I’ve found that I like one cup of coffee and a banana with a little PB for breakfast before a long (10k or more) run. Anything more than that and I will puke, anything less and I will flame out quick. Also, and it sounds stupid to some, but it takes a little while to learn how to eat and run at the same time. Chewing and swallowing while trying to keep your breathing in sync is tough!!!
 

Colekira

Ten Pointer
Contributor
@Colekira its definitely a lot of experimenting. But you right, not being properly fueled up makes a huge difference. I’ve found that I like one cup of coffee and a banana with a little PB for breakfast before a long (10k or more) run. Anything more than that and I will puke, anything less and I will flame out quick. Also, and it sounds stupid to some, but it takes a little while to learn how to eat and run at the same time. Chewing and swallowing while trying to keep your breathing in sync is tough!!!
Try an energy gel, you just suck them down and chase with water. I don't like them but they work!
 

SomeHuntingGuy

Eight Pointer
Good luck. Been there & done that twice. It’s a great accomplishment that I’m glad I’ve done it.


You asked for advice: 26.2 miles is a long ways & training for it takes up the majority of your free time. Make sure you can allocate time for it.

-Run a flat race. Ups and downs suck.
-Take walk breaks.
-Do something to get your mind off of running; for me it’s music
-Use gel packs or something to keep you going for those longer runs.
-for training don’t carry water; plant water bottles instead.
-when training don’t run in circles. Circles blow.

it’s been a long time for me. I’ll never run another marathon again. Been there done that. Half a marathon is more my style but I’m glad I did it.
 

Soilman

Old Mossy Horns
Contributor
Never did a marathon, but I did do a half marathon and several trail runs.

Here's the recommended formula for training.

First, train for base mileage. You need to be able to actually do the 26 miles, or pretty close to it.
Once you have your base mileage, start doing "hill training" a few times per week.
Lastly, and if you have time, speed training. Look up the term "fartlek"
Also, give yourself at the very least, one day of rest in the week. More depending upon your age.
 

T-Rock

Twelve Pointer
Contributor

I by no means can speak for timekiller13, but if you gotta ask you'll never understand why 😁 it's a Forest Gump thing 😁

Seriously, I nearly lost my life 13 months ago. Living like you heathens 😁 (JK).
But I'm 100% convinced that by Divine Intervention, I'm still walking "Planet Earth."

I was wondering around in the desert, aimlessly, like a lost sheep but the good Shepard left the flock, came out and found me, picked me up on His shoulders, and carried me back home where I belonged all along.

From the time Covid kicked off until Memorial Day 2021, my ex and I drank like sots, and my weight had crept up to ~250 pounds, heaviest I've ever been in my life. And at 58, soon to be 59, that's a recipe for disaster.

We see it all the time in the hospital, once people exceed a certain weight, major adverse health issues seem to follow suit.

My ex and I used any excuse possible to drink,, even Covid.. like hey, let's go make a run to pick up some Covid medicine, gotta prevent those blood clots you know if we contract it.., right? 😄

Although I wasn't taking it (lots of HC workers are non-compliant 😳), my cardiologist had prescribed Cardizem and hydrochlorothiazide to me after 2 nurse buddies took me to the ER one night while working the Covid ICU. After going into SVT while working, my HR was screaming out of control, and my BP was following along as well, constant readings of 160/100, and sometimes 210/110. My ex wife's pressure was doing the same. My cardiologist said I would never be able to come off blood pressure medicine for the rest of my life. Nevertheless, my ex and I made a pact with one another to clean up our lives, but when she "Peaced Out" of our Covenant, I found myself wallowing in sorrow and I cranked up the ETOH consumption 210%. By Memorial Day 2021, I had literally become the person I was repulsed by.

I won't go into all the gory details, but it was at that point in my life, my Savior literally had a come to Jesus meeting with me, and I've tried to listen to what He's had to say since. That part is kinda hard to explain through a keyboard since my ability to express thoughts via the command of the English language, is only @ the 5th grade level 😁

Back in September 2021, through much prayer, after an 18 year Sabbatical, I managed to cross the line of a HIM, and it really wasn't my success or by my efforts considering the circumstances, but I was literally carried across the finish line, and I know without a doubt who carried me across that line.

So for now, my whole purpose for running marathons and such is to simply rebuild my "Temple" since I've abused it for far too long, and use my story as a witness, to show that through Christ, anything is possible. Tentatively, my marathon goal is for Ironman Florida, in hopes of qualifying for IM Hawaii, but it remains to be seen where I'll be led. All I know is that by running, etc, is having major health benefits in ways I've never imagined. And at my age, I never thought it possible, and it is my Creator who has made it all possible. I'm on zero meds, and BP now runs consistently 118/68, and my resting HR is in the low 40's. Also, running has my weight ~180-185 pounds (~70 pounds lost) where I was at in the military back in the 80's, and you absolutely feel like SPARTACUS as a grandpa 😁

The longevity from it will hopefully enable me to take my grandchildren fishing and hunting for many more years to come, God willing 😎
 

luckybuck

Old Mossy Horns
That sounds awful!!!

Once a month I run Rocky Face in Alexander. I started off with running one lap back in March and now I’m up to 3 laps.
You are close to my house!!! My cousin is married to a professional triathlete if you want advice. He helped my wife learn and compete in triathlon…
 

timekiller13

Old Mossy Horns
Why not?

Its a personal challenge. And I want to stay healthy. I have never been an “unhealthy” person by any means. But I’m creeping up on 40 and my metabolism is not what it used to. Plus, with a long family history of strokes, MI, diabetes and such, I want to do what I can to fight it

Also, it’s an outlet. A stress reliever. I can get up early in the morning before the rest of the world is awake and go for a 1-2 hour jog and have nothing but my thoughts. I don’t listen to music or podcasts, I just run.

Also, my Dad ran a marathon when he right around my age. Can’t let the old man out do me so I’m going to run one and run it faster!!
 

woodmoose

Administrator
Staff member
Contributor
personally, I have a different take in it

when I did the longest stuff I have done, my training regime was not excessively long training runs - but I did train twice a day, morning and late afternoon and it was a combo of running, weights/calisthetics, and rucks (leg strength)

it culminated with a 40 mile cross country (some trails) move at speed,,,in one day,,, and I was done in just over 8 hours,,,

my theory - get the body in great shape but don't over due it and cause a chronic injury - cause after a certain distance/time, it's just "embracing the suck" and that's the mind not the body,,,

but then I am a "has been",,,,,
 

Tipmoose

Administrator
Staff member
Contributor
@T-Rock I appreciate your perspective but I do not share it. I drink like a fish and I will continue to. Getting on a cruise ship tomorrow and plan on being sober for as little of it as necessary. I'm going to wear this body out and whenever I can't do the things on life I enjoy I will move on to whatever is next.

I'm not going to run or work out or eat kale and drink spinach juice in the pursuit of adding a few more years where I wake up and complain about how it hurts to pee every morning. I'm not one of those people who believes life is some freaking miracle. I didn't ask for it, but since I'm forced to endure it, I'm going to endure it on my terms.
 

woodmoose

Administrator
Staff member
Contributor
@Tipmoose

iu
 
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