Starting Farm Questions

YanceyGreenhorn

Still Not a Moderator
The thought has crossed my mind, but I've never thought about it seriously. Israel just banned fur imports in 2021, the only exception being beaver furs for the shtreimel market. It's not a bad idea though. I could ask around about it, at least see if it's possible. There are big Hasidic communities in NY and elsewhere in the US, as well as Israel. But I don't think they care about getting furs from non-Jewish people, as long as they're quality furs. I'll ask though. Thank you!
Yeah I was thinking U.S. cities since you might be in and out of them for farmers markets etc.
 

DRS

Old Mossy Horns
This is a common statement I come across. One of the imbalances I see in society where priorities are misguided. People are eager to spend more for non essentials and expect essentials to be cheap. The same people that want more money for their own product or service but expect someone else’s to be cheaper.

It always ends up that the farmer is viewed as the bottom of the societal hierarchy. Despite campaigns of ‘if you ate today, thank a farmer’ it truly is a thankless profession. When a farmer markets their product at a price more than the grocery store, a large part of society calls the farmer greedy or the customer stupid.

Why not change your attitudes? Support your local farmers. Don’t just say it, Do it. These farmers have been supporting everyone’s price increases, it’s about time they are repaid in kind.
I see this every day, without getting into details agriculture is my livelyhood. I agree that framers generally get the short end. However, those that are willing to pay $30 for a chicken surely have more money than "cents". I have had this debate many times about "organic" and all the other marketing ploys. It comes down to niche faming vs commerical farming. I have no issues with someone paying $30 for a chicken, but I ain't one of them when they can be produced for food much cheaper with a farmer still making considerable profit. I also question the actual difference in nutritional and safety valve of such marketed products in niche vs commerical raised crops or livestock including animal products. Many times the marketing preys on a person's perception of what happens. Either way the "chicken" dies.
 
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NCbowjunkie

Ten Pointer
If I remember correctly the agricultural extension service in this county also partnered with NCState to help local farmers to get their products to fancy restaurants and places in Charlotte and Asheville where otherwise they were missing this market for sales
 

Jimbob78

Twelve Pointer
If I remember correctly the agricultural extension service in this county also partnered with NCState to help local farmers to get their products to fancy restaurants and places in Charlotte and Asheville where otherwise they were missing this market for sales
Isn’t all the extension offices partnered with NC State and A&T?
 

agsnchunt

Old Mossy Horns
I see this every day, without getting into details agriculture is my livelyhood. I agree that framers generally get the short end. However, those that are willing to pay $30 for a chicken surely have more money than "cents". I have had this debate many times about "organic" and all the other marketing ploys. It comes down to niche faming vs commerical farming. I have no issues with someone paying $30 for a chicken, but I ain't one of them when they can be produced for food much cheaper with a farmer still making considerable profit. I also question the actual difference in nutritional and safety valve of such marketed products in niche vs commerical raised crops or livestock including animal products. Many times the marketing preys on a person's perception of what happens. Either way the "chicken" dies.

Exactly.

The difference between organic and normal produce is of little value, but organic demands a higher price (with lower fertilizer bills!).
 
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bwfarms

Old Mossy Horns
I also question the actually difference in nutritional and safety valve of such marketed products in niche vs commerical raised crops or livestock including animal products.

Labeling is a big cringe subject and I agree some marketing is over the top with additional labels or advertising with ambiguous terms that are misleading. I disagree with the whole organic is better movement because there are organic pesticides that are potentially more harmful than some synthetics but are allowed under ‘organic’ rules.

I question government and their guidelines. Follow the ‘science’ follows money. For years they tell consumers beef is bad for your heart, eat chicken. Why? Chicken farms are consolidated and the government doesn’t like that beef operations are not consolidated.

See a lot more contamination issues with poultry products compared to beef so there’s the reason some are so inclined to pay $30 for a chicken.

Nutritional and safety value… there is some truth to it from a direct sales point. Less points of contacts equals greater control of storage security. Still due diligence is required when trusting the source. Nutritional values there are differences in between animals based on their diet. Greater control if it’s one animal versus a thousand run through the same grinder.
 

bwfarms

Old Mossy Horns
Exactly.

The difference between organic and normal produce is of little value, but organic demands a higher price (with lower fertilizer bills!).

Cost of fertilizer is not necessarily less. Certain aspects of organic operations experience greater waste due to crop loss because synthetic pesticides are not used. Hence there’s a greater cost to achieve same production dollars as a synthetically protected crop.
 

timber

Twelve Pointer
I looked at some studies a few years ago when I was raising some vegetables for sale and by a lot of them was not much difference health wise on organic vs conventional. I think the label organic was more of a selling tool than actual benefit. I believe in the use of herbicides and insecticides so organic want a consideration. I much rather run a sprayer than a hoe. I never had anybody ask if anything was organic or not. They were after as much as they could get for as cheap as they could get it. Always had a few never asked the price. They came to the farm to buy it because it was fresh. They like putting in order then I pick it and they pick it up as soon as I got through picking
 

Mack in N.C.

Old Mossy Horns
I would be interested to know what farm. Everyone I’ve talked to who got into the hemp business has lost their tail. The only ones I’ve heard of making bank are the few that grow clones for resale or have their own processing facilities. Even the ones with their own processing facilities needed to have some direct access to consumers
Got the scoop this am when my employee arrived to work. She did sale to buyers (middlemen?) But there was like some have said little to no money . She started an online store selling hemp products like teas and other things and she has all the business she can stand.
 

KrisB

Ten Pointer
I looked at some studies a few years ago when I was raising some vegetables for sale and by a lot of them was not much difference health wise on organic vs conventional. I think the label organic was more of a selling tool than actual benefit. I believe in the use of herbicides and insecticides so organic want a consideration. I much rather run a sprayer than a hoe. I never had anybody ask if anything was organic or not. They were after as much as they could get for as cheap as they could get it. Always had a few never asked the price. They came to the farm to buy it because it was fresh. They like putting in order then I pick it and they pick it up as soon as I got through picking
CSAs (Community-Supported Agriculture) are a big thing now in a lot of places. Instead of the customers coming to your farm to pick up the vegetables, someone from the farm delivers the vegetables to their door. From what I understand, they pre-order the vegetables they want at the beginning of the season or the year and then as each vegetable's harvest time comes around, it's delivered to them. So they get all the in-season produce they want and the farmer has that income up front. I'm not sure how they do it if a crop does poorly, maybe refund for that particular one.
 

KrisB

Ten Pointer
The farm I'm on isn't even certified organic and doesn't claim to be, but people still pay these high prices because the eggs and the chicken meat are pasture-raised. But nobody asks what breed the chickens are. The meat chickens are Cornish-Cross, the exact same breed of chicken you get at the grocery store. They have been bred for industrial-size commercial production and living in a big confinement system. They have the best feed to weight conversion ratio of any of the chicken breeds. They've been bred to just eat, sit around, and get big and that's what they do. The only difference on this farm is they're out on a pasture instead of being confined indoors like in the big commercial farms. But they still get chicken feed and that's mostly what they eat. They've lost most of their foraging ability. And a lot of small farms are doing this, just raising Cornish-Cross chickens on pasture, and then selling them for higher prices since they're pasture-raised.

I would like to go into raising heritage chickens instead of Cornish-Cross, but they take a lot longer to raise to a good weight for slaughter (about 5 or 6 months, depending on the breed, compared to 8 weeks or so for Cornish-Cross). But people are so used to Cornish-Cross (big chickens), it'd be a super hard, if not impossible, sell. The meat is more flavorful, from what I've read, but has to be slow-cooked. Seems like a lot of people nowadays are not into slow cooking, at least not the younger people. Anyway, it's been eye-opening being on a farm in the Pacific Northwest and selling at farmers' markets in Seattle.
 

bwfarms

Old Mossy Horns
The only difference on this farm is they're out on a pasture instead of being confined indoors like in the big commercial farms.

Animal welfare is a top concern for direct sale consumers. For the average direct sale customer all the other labeling/terms is meaningless fodder.
 

KrisB

Ten Pointer
Animal welfare is a top concern for direct sale consumers. For the average direct sale customer all the other labeling/terms is meaningless fodder.
So true. I just think the animal welfare concern should go deeper than just being raised on pasture. I think a chicken breed that can run around and forage on a pasture has a better quality of life than one that has leg problems, heart attacks, etc. because it's been bred to sit around and gain weight at such a fast rate. Just my opinion and my bias on it. I just like the American heritage breeds, like Buckeyes, Wyandottes, Dominiques, etc. better.
 
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Jimbob78

Twelve Pointer
So true. I just think the animal welfare concern should go deeper than just being raised on pasture. I think a chicken breed that can run around and forage on a pasture has a better quality of life than one that has leg problems, heart attacks, etc. because it's been bred to sit around and gain weight at such a fast rate. Just my opinion and my bias on it. I just like the American heritage breeds, like Buckeyes, Wyandottes, Dominiques, etc. better.
When you keep animals longer you increase your risk of disease and therefore loss. Do these fee range heritage breeds taste better, absolutely. They don’t have to be cooked low and slow, harvest them younger, the birds in the grocery store are too big. I want one dressed under 3 pounds. Colored eggs are eye candy and attract buyers, just like large eggs. Game birds are another choice that demand a higher price, such as quail, pheasant, ducks, etc and the eggs from each fetch more money because they are “exotic”.
 

bwfarms

Old Mossy Horns
So true. I just think the animal welfare concern should go deeper than just being raised on pasture. I think a chicken breed that can run around and forage on a pasture has a better quality of life than one that has leg problems, heart attacks, etc. because it's been bred to sit around and gain weight at such a fast rate. Just my opinion and my bias on it. I just like the American heritage breeds, like Buckeyes, Wyandottes, Dominiques, etc. better.

Did you ask the chicken if it was happy?

I think you are overthinking their satisfaction. Preferring one breed over the other doesn’t make the animal’s quality of life any better. When picking breeds of an animal you look for traits that are desirable to your production goals.

The rest is up to the operation to provide close access to water, mineral, space, etc.
 

timber

Twelve Pointer
I think there is a little BS in the definition free range on birds like organic on vegetable labels. It more of a selling gimmick to get a little more out of the product. I know someone that built 4 big chicken houses for around a million $. He put up some chicken wire around the sides and had doors on side he left open. Supposedly that made the chickens qualify as free range because they could come and go. Problem with that none of them ever go outside but they are free range
 

bwfarms

Old Mossy Horns
I think there is a little BS in the definition free range on birds like organic on vegetable labels. It more of a selling gimmick to get a little more out of the product. I know someone that built 4 big chicken houses for around a million $. He put up some chicken wire around the sides and had doors on side he left open. Supposedly that made the chickens qualify as free range because they could come and go. Problem with that none of them ever go outside but they are free range

That’s why I say labels are ambiguous. Neighbor has the same setup on their houses, did it to secure the contract. Same thing, birds wouldn’t go outside. To say the least he was a bit perturbed lol.

The uninitiated (grocery store) shopper will see the label and feel all warm and fuzzy inside. Never the wiser that they were hoodwinked by the disclaimer ‘have access to free range’.
 

KrisB

Ten Pointer

Did you ask the chicken if it was happy?

I think you are overthinking their satisfaction. Preferring one breed over the other doesn’t make the animal’s quality of life any better. When picking breeds of an animal you look for traits that are desirable to your production goals.

The rest is up to the operation to provide close access to water, mineral, space, etc.
I don't speak chicken. :LOL: But, yes, I see what you mean.
 

lasttombstone

Kinder, Gentler LTS
^Reminds me of the lady that cooked for an aunt back in the 50s/60s. She would just hold their head and give them a quick twist and snap. I thought it was great watching that chicken running all over the yard with no head.
 

KrisB

Ten Pointer
Seems like they use killing cones nowadays, but maybe that's just on commercial farms that are processing chickens on the farm to sell direct to customers?

Y'all had some fun childhoods!
 

Hunterreed

Twelve Pointer
So true. I just think the animal welfare concern should go deeper than just being raised on pasture. I think a chicken breed that can run around and forage on a pasture has a better quality of life than one that has leg problems, heart attacks, etc. because it's been bred to sit around and gain weight at such a fast rate. Just my opinion and my bias on it. I just like the American heritage breeds, like Buckeyes, Wyandottes, Dominiques, etc. better.
I used to only raise the red sexlink egg production hens for years because of the amount of eggs they lay but each batch would have something about them undesirable. Some were to aggressive, some so dumb they would eat anything like styrofoam and die,some like asa browns just stopped laying after just a couple of years. Now I'm into traditional breeds and have a mix of wyandotte, australorp,marans,orpingtons,ameraucanas,easter eggers,Whiting true green and a few I'm not sure of mixed breed. Much better chickens though some of the roosters can get rough without a little attitude adjustment once in a while and bloody up your shins. I get a rainbow dozen out of them that's more popular with most folks than the all brown eggs except for the bakers that want the dark yolks20221122_204422.jpg
 

KrisB

Ten Pointer
I used to only raise the red sexlink egg production hens for years because of the amount of eggs they lay but each batch would have something about them undesirable. Some were to aggressive, some so dumb they would eat anything like styrofoam and die,some like asa browns just stopped laying after just a couple of years. Now I'm into traditional breeds and have a mix of wyandotte, australorp,marans,orpingtons,ameraucanas,easter eggers,Whiting true green and a few I'm not sure of mixed breed. Much better chickens though some of the roosters can get rough without a little attitude adjustment once in a while and bloody up your shins. I get a rainbow dozen out of them that's more popular with most folks than the all brown eggs except for the bakers that want the dark yolksView attachment 104794
Those eggs are beautiful!!! I bet they taste great, too!

Do you ever sell any of your chickens or any chicks of those breeds? Not sure yet if I'll be coming back to NC, but if I do and I can access some land, I would love to start with some traditional chickens.
 

Hunterreed

Twelve Pointer
Those eggs are beautiful!!! I bet they taste great, too!

Do you ever sell any of your chickens or any chicks of those breeds? Not sure yet if I'll be coming back to NC, but if I do and I can access some land, I would love to start with some traditional chickens.
Not yet. I have had a small incubator but haven't started using it yet even though I have roosters for each breed. May start early spring trying to hatch some. Most of my chickens have came from McMurray hatchery and they all have been good birds,I have no complaints with that hatchery
 
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