Since we cant blame the weather...

oldest school

Old Mossy Horns
What will we blame in two years for the lack of turkey success?
About this time every year we hear that the wet weather is going to be the end of turkeys. :)
That doesn't seem to be in play this year. Thank goodness.
The turkeys need any help they can get.
 
wolfman

wolfman

Old Mossy Horns
Give it time. A cool, wet week in early June can still be an excuse. Although I'd actually welcome the weather right now.

And we can always blame coyotes.
 
wolfman

wolfman

Old Mossy Horns
As long as the hen:gobbler ratio stays the same I think we will be fine. I think that's a better indicator than hatch numbers.

I don't think SC ever did itself a favor with that 5 bird limit.
 
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oldest school

Old Mossy Horns
there are some startling conclusions being made on the reasons for turkey declines directly related to new hunting efficiencies.
I am not objective at all on the subject and have stated that we are going to killem out but now the game agencies may be saying basically the same thing.
Read and be forewarned:

New regulations for SC - Gobbler Nation

www.gobblernation.com
a thread similar to our own on SC regs changing but with a whole lot more info on the why side.
 
wolfman

wolfman

Old Mossy Horns
oldest school said:
there are some startling conclusions being made on the reasons for turkey declines directly related to new hunting efficiencies.
I am not objective at all on the subject and have stated that we are going to killem out but now the game agencies may be saying basically the same thing.
Read and be forewarned:

New regulations for SC - Gobbler Nation

www.gobblernation.com
a thread similar to our own on SC regs changing but with a whole lot more info on the why side.
Click to expand...
Sounds to me like the DNR wasted time and resources on research that the legislature didn't want to hear. Nest initiation on average was April 9th. DNR recommends an April 10th opener. Legislature says "thanks but we'll open on March 22nd in the low country and April 1st elsewhere"

I understand that one poster's logic on strutter decoys leading to the demise of a dominant bird in the early season that might be more difficult to kill without decoys. But if your season starts when it should, those hens should have been bred. If a hen is laying her first egg on April 9th, the dominant bird may not have fertilized her yet. Bottom line, they start too early in my opinion. SC is trying to save the turkey population and satisfy the early season hunters. They're trying to limit the early harvest with the one bird in the first 10 days and discouraging out of state hunters. They have all the evidence they need to just change the date. And don't get me wrong, I've hunted the opening day in the low country. And if I had a good spot I'd be there March 22nd, 2020.

I also think (with little to no evidence to support it) that a lot of birds are shot over corn piles. If we could enforce it more with heavy penalties that would save a lot of birds.
 

oldest school

Old Mossy Horns
well since they hav had an even earlier opener and seemingly more birds you cant point to the early opener imo as the culprit.
it's our success during those opening weeks now versus years ago that is the issue. we know exactly how to kill henned up field birds now and can do so at 70yds no problem.
That's the change down there. We are blissfully happy up here due to the eastern explosion in population resulting in nice kill rates.
 
Lucky Clucker

Lucky Clucker

Old Mossy Horns
The early rains during the season cause alot of hens and,nest to be destroyed, a,wet hen smells,and,turns black makes it easier to be seen and found by varmints. Years past I have seen hens and,poults before season closed,so alot are already setting when season starts,I say in the next 5 years, most of NC, will see a big decline in turkeys, too many new hunters jumping on the bandwagon,being a cool YouTube turkey hunter,Facebook pro.Too many being killed now,Give a yearor 2 of a bad hatch and record kills AMD,it going be a sad time,already seen some areas and,gameland that need to be shortened or closed for a few years,Uwharrie in Montgomery co.is,one such place,,never seen it so badthis season,now I did not hunt all places but most of the ones that used to have enough to hunt,really can't wait to,see how,many were reported from Montgomery co. Game land.
 
Ol Copper

Ol Copper

Twelve Pointer
It's not just SC, biologist all over the south have been gathering yearly to discuss the decline of turkeys in many states. Tennessee had to take action, Arkansas has dropped below pitiful. Now they are starting to grumble in places like Kansas and Missouri.....

They are not just dying out en mass all over the country, it is just not possible all at once. If it were a disease you would know it immediately. It is not coyotes.

Hunters, even brand new hunters, are way more efficient these days and can kill a limit quickly now. Everybody now knows to pop up a blind and throw out 2 dekes in a field and you can have immediate success, even on the most nasty and rainy of days. Can't kill him because he's 200 out across a field with 3 hens, that's ok, whip out your fan and charge him, he'll die...

It's hard to knock a fella' for hunting legally, but something will be a straw that breaks the camels back. It only leaves you concluding 2 things...
Either the seasons are opening too early before the hens are fully bred, or todays hunting methods are too deadly.
My opinion, and my opinion only, is that the deer hunters that decided to be turkey busters have no idea how fragile turkey populations are, and simply do not want to face the truth when it comes to putting common sense measures in place to benefit the turkeys. Everybody wants to kill one as soon as they hear the first gobble of the year and that is just not how it works.
Most people I meet in the woods don't even know how their gun patterns, or what their choke constriction is for pete's sake...don't tell me that they understand turkey biology.
 
wolfman

wolfman

Old Mossy Horns
oldest school said:
well since they hav had an even earlier opener and seemingly more birds you cant point to the early opener imo as the culprit.
it's our success during those opening weeks now versus years ago that is the issue. we know exactly how to kill henned up field birds now and can do so at 70yds no problem.
That's the change down there. We are blissfully happy up here due to the eastern explosion in population resulting in nice kill rates.
Click to expand...
You still have to consider the 5 bird limit and two birds per day in those days.
 
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CRC

Old Mossy Horns
Turkeys seem to be doing fine in NC.

We open our season early (biologically) but never got liberal like other southern states.
 
jug

jug

Old Mossy Horns
Contributor
Lovett Williams predicted years ago that Turkey populations would stabilize or decline in Southern states where the pine plantations would dominate and replace hardwood mixed habitat.
 
np307

np307

Ten Pointer
I'll be the scapegoat. On my way back from trout fishing Saturday I had a hen fly across the road and I couldn't miss her. So I'm sure I single-handedly contributed to the demise of turkeys in Western NC. Hope you guys forgive me.
 

oldest school

Old Mossy Horns
wolfman said:
You still have to consider the 5 bird limit and two birds per day in those days.
Click to expand...
well yeah they thrived for decades with a five bird limit.
It was great and now not so great so what has changed the most?
It's the way we can mow them down.
You know it aint too much of a challenge when 3 yr olds can kill one. :)
 
wolfman

wolfman

Old Mossy Horns
The problem with looking at historical data in South Carolina is that there isn't any. Have they started requiring you to report your kills yet?
 

oldest school

Old Mossy Horns
wolfman said:
The problem with looking at historical data in South Carolina is that there isn't any. Have they started requiring you to report your kills yet?
Click to expand...
I think that changes to yes next year but I am not sure.
and they do have data. years ago all turkeys had to be reported at a check in station.
I assume they use sampling data now, they poll hunters on their success.
 

aaronmdln1

Six Pointer
Between decoys and new gun capabilities that have come along in the last 10 years it’s no surprise at the number of birds is declining and kills on the rise. Along with an ever increasing number of predators!! Including more humans in the woods.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

aaronmdln1

Six Pointer
turkeyfoot said:
They used to keep up with county kills and specific public land kills not sure when they quit
Click to expand...

It seem like it started once the NCDNR got comfortable with number of birds in all counties as we had a steady rise and a lot of relocating going on. Now they are just reaping the money side of it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
turkeyfoot

turkeyfoot

Old Mossy Horns
wolfman said:
I hunted SC for about 4 or 5 years. Never had to report a kill and never got a survey.
Click to expand...
2003 and 04 was roughly last I hunted SC I pulled some old paper work out I have. It has harvest total for every county and harvest for public in that county
 
wolfman

wolfman

Old Mossy Horns
I recall SC having harvest numbers but they weren't based on reported kills. Maybe they did a random survey and then estimated kills based on that. This was probably around 2011 plus or minus a couple of years.
 
Helium

Helium

Old Mossy Horns
IMO,

All the reasons stated thus far are at best a small fraction of any reduced #s.

Truth is turkeys are somewhat migratory and coupled with human population growing faster than the turkeys = it has its effects!

Just saw on the news that NC has lost 225 farms and 2Mil acres of land since the early 80s due to development and expansion. My theory, we have more turkeys on less land with more hunters = more kills.

Ps Just a side note, just because your area has declined doesn’t mean your neighbors has. For example, a non-turkey hunter friend of mine that resides in Rockingham county said this week “I see turkeys all the time but a guy the other day in my county said he didn’t know what happened to the turkeys because they aren’t around like they use to be”
 

oldest school

Old Mossy Horns
Helium said:
IMO,

All the reasons stated thus far are at best a small fraction of any reduced #s.

Truth is turkeys are somewhat migratory and coupled with human population growing faster than the turkeys = it has its effects!

Just saw on the news that NC has lost 225 farms and 2Mil acres of land since the early 80s due to development and expansion. My theory, we have more turkeys on less land with more hunters = more kills.

Ps Just a side note, just because your area has declined doesn’t mean your neighbors has. For example, a non-turkey hunter friend of mine that resides in Rockingham county said this week “I see turkeys all the time but a guy the other day in my county said he didn’t know what happened to the turkeys because they aren’t around like they use to be”
Click to expand...
that's just kicking the can down the road. the reckoning will come.
those new hunters in many many many cases would be mere nuisances to turkeys in the past. Now they are stone cold killers. Instantly.
 
Helium

Helium

Old Mossy Horns
oldest school said:
that's just kicking the can down the road. the reckoning will come.
those new hunters in many many many cases would be mere nuisances to turkeys in the past. Now they are stone cold killers. Instantly.
Click to expand...
Maybe but not so sure... Ive been an avid/successful deer and small game hunter for years but didn’t get serious about turkey hunting until 4 years ago and even 2 of those years I only killed 1 annually.

Prior to that I had hunted them off and on sporadically and even with 2 mentors it took me a long time to learn the learning curve to even have a clue.

Keep in mind I’ve only killed 1 field bird.. so that I realize is some difference but still I don’t believe the average Joe becomes an instant stone cold turkey killer

BIG question... do you believe wannabe duck hunters become instant stone cold duck killers ?? That’s apples to apples comparison in the sense that the sport also has advanced greatly with decoys etc
 
wolfman

wolfman

Old Mossy Horns
Helium said:
Maybe but not so sure... Ive been an avid/successful deer and small game hunter for years but didn’t get serious about turkey hunting until 4 years ago and even 2 of those years I only killed 1 annually.

Prior to that I had hunted them off and on sporadically and even with 2 mentors it took me a long time to learn the learning curve to even have a clue.

Keep in mind I’ve only killed 1 field bird.. so that I realize is some difference but still I don’t believe the average Joe becomes an instant stone cold turkey killer

BIG question... do you believe wannabe duck hunters become instant stone cold duck killers ?? That’s apples to apples comparison in the sense that the sport also has advanced greatly with decoys etc
Click to expand...
I don't think it is apples to apples. A duck can circle a decoy spread and check it out. There's not a decoy you can hide behind and sneak up on a duck. Hide behind a fan on a dominant gobbler and you don't even have to own a turkey call.
 
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