Since the CURE program hasn't worked out that well, try something else?

[MtnGrouseHtr]

Pesticides probably killed more avian predators than any farmer. That said I think hawks have made an amazing come back but I think there population in most areas have put grown their food supply and there numbers will drop some again naturally in the next few years


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Not according to recent studies

Rethinking DDT

The evidence that DDT ever caused reproduction problems of cancer is shaky; the evidence that the DDT ban has given rise to epidemic malaria is unquestionable.

www.foxnews.com

 

[JONOV]

I'll only say that areas I've hunted near CURE habitat, I have seen quail.

I have a book, published in the 50's...HG Tapply wrote that he remembered when a fox pelt brought $25, and that was harkening back from when the book was published. Purchasing Power is really funny, since everything changes, but the fact remains that that was a princely sum for a man. And, I'm sure that anyone that looked at a raptor and saw the possibility of a vegetarian Sunday dinner and No eggs on Monday, kept that population low.

The flip side of that argument, is that Turkeys nest on the ground, and seem to do ok despite nest raiding predation, fire ants, and Hawks and Owls. Woodcock do too. And Grouse if you cut the trees. And Pheasants in some parts of the country.

I think, if you wanted to compare them to fish, Quail are like Brook Trout. Woodcock and Grouse and Pheasants are more like Bass and Crappie and Walleye. Meaning, within certain habitat parameters, much easier to keep and keep established, and much less sensitive to disruption.

I've heard different things...That Quail require a huge minimum of contiguous habitat.

I've been told that the preponderance of cool season fescue type grasses makes nesting for quail extremely difficult, without ditches getting mowed and clean farming and everything else.

 

[woodmoose]

fescue

I despise fescue

 

[NC Quailhunter]

I have only hunted the one Cure area and my result was completely different than what you have experienced JONOV. I am glad that you have seen Quail in those areas and that it has been working in some areas. I guess the next questions is if it is working in those areas why not everywhere?
Predators as I mentioned before are only a part of it. I agree that the predation problem can be reduced with prime habitat.
I am a firm believer that once the area is devoid of Quail then they need to be reintroduced to the area after the habitat is established. There are some wonderful areas that should support Quail but they are not there.
I, as you, have heard all types of things as to why Quail have been on the decline. I am sure there is a combination of things that have created this down turn.
The last time I spoke to a couple of state biologists about why the Turkeys and not Quail the answer I received was similar to your analogy with the fish. Quail require a specialized habitat and Turkey are more of a general habitat type bird. We also know that a Turkey hen is a more formidable opponent to a predator than a Quail hen.
I am not trying to be argumentative just enjoying the conversation and bringing up what I have been told and have learned.

 

[JONOV]

I despise fescue

I listened to a podcast with a biologist that said, basically, that a pasture of warm season/forb type grasses can support quail. As soon as you introduce fescue, it becomes a quail desert, since the babies can't run around in it. Basically they said, if you look between your feet you should be able to see some dirt. Heck I can hardly grow grass in parts of my yard but where I throw seed and get water, it becomes a carpet.

I have only hunted the one Cure area and my result was completely different than what you have experienced JONOV. I am glad that you have seen Quail in those areas and that it has been working in some areas. I guess the next questions is if it is working in those areas why not everywhere?
Predators as I mentioned before are only a part of it. I agree that the predation problem can be reduced with prime habitat.
I am a firm believer that once the area is devoid of Quail then they need to be reintroduced to the area after the habitat is established. there are some wonderful areas that should support Quail but they are not there.
I, as you, have heard all types of things as to why Quail have been on the decline. I am sure their is a combination of things that have created this down turn.
The last time I spoke to a couple of state biologists about why the Turkeys and Quail the answer I received was similar to you analogy with the fish. Quail require a specialized habitat and Turkey are more of a general habitat type bird. We also know that Turkey hen is a more formidable opponent to a predator than a Quail hen.
I am not trying to be argumentative just enjoying the conversation and bringing up what I have been told and have learned.

I agree. And I'll even say that you can have pen raised quail. Just not raised in the pens you see from a pay-and-shoot operation.

 

[sky hawk]

Controlling avian predators in the 21st century just isn't going to happen. Just forget about that and move on to ground predators and habitat.

I think the biggest impact has been farming practices and use of herbicides (not pesticides). I also don't believe you can just manage on public lands and get the desired results. You can get some results, but it will never be a true restoration until you get widespread habitat on private lands. That will not happen without changing farmers and landowners perceptions, and probably some heavy incentives as well. And I don't think you'll get farmers to go back to non-RR crops in this century either short of radical legislation.

Where you can get the habitat right, I agree there needs to be translocation. The populations are so low, they're not going to just filter in from surrounding lands because there aren't any.

 

[darkthirty]

Controlling avian predators in the 21st century just isn't going to happen. Just forget about that and move on to ground predators and habitat.

I think, no I know they get “controlled” a lot more than many people realize but “controlled” to the extent they were 60-75 years ago, you are correct.