Retirement Finance Discussion

Firedog

Firedog

Old Mossy Horns
Contributor
The stock market thread started to go off the rails towards a retirement discussion so I figured why not have a thread just for thoughts on retirement financing. Not looking for anyone to divulge how much money they have or where more of a discussion about how you are planning to finance it, strategies, ideas etc.

Couple of starter questions:

Are you even planning for retirement (saving)
How much savings do you think you need to retire the way you want to at 65 assuming you will live until 90?,
How old do you assume you will live to in your current planning ?
Are you diversified or all in the market and if so in what?
Are you implementing a plan for multiple revenue streams, if so how many.?
For those that are already living the dream, did you do enough when you were working? What would you have done differently?

Again not trying to get into anybodies business, just an interesting subject that is getting much bigger in my personal windshield. The you know the more you know.. somebody might learn something, hoping it is me.
 
NCST8GUY

NCST8GUY

Frozen H20 Guy
Also curious, but don't want to hijack the thread, for those involved in retirement plans through their employer, who has the best plans?

I've always felt unions = #1, retiring from the Federal Government =#2, and retiring from the State = #3.

Also, I rarely hear of companies matching up to 6% of 401K funds anymore. That used to be the easiest free money in the world.

I know several state retirees whom are enjoying retirement quite well. I don't know any union retirees or Fed retirees.

Personally, I started investing kind of late (dot com near year 2000 wiped out a massive chance at becoming quite wealthy when I was young and stupid) so I'm still mostly in mutual funds in my retirement accounts.

I like to spread accounts ie; Edward Jones, Fidelity, and my own personal gut.

I plan to work into my later 60's and then get a room at a retirement center. That'll be like being Brad Pitt in a bar in West Virginia!
 
buckshooter

buckshooter

Old Mossy Horns
I am retired

My wife and I started preparing for retirement shortly after we got married.

Tge first thing we did was listen to her dad adopt saving money.

He said take a small notebook with you everyday for 30 days everywhere you go.

Write down everything you spend money on ( not counting essential expenses) but if you buy a drink , candy bar , lunch , snacks , anything.

Write down how much it was and what it was for. . At the end of that 30 days tally it all up and sit down and decide just how much of was actually essential.

You’ll be amazed at how much you spend on stuff you really don’t need.

After our first son was born my wife stayed home for 18 years before she returned to work.

So our funds were close. We didn’t buy new cars or take expensive trips but we got by.

We loaded up the mortgage and paid off a 15 year note in 7 years. That helped tremendously with getting our retirement account going good.

But living well within your means before retirement is how I’d advise anyone who is looking for a comfortable retirement.

It’s hard sometimes to watch family & friends do things you’d like to. But well worth the effort when you do reach retirement.

Now we do as we please without a lot of worry.
 
timekiller13

timekiller13

Old Mossy Horns
I’m 40.

I really want to retire about 55. I think it’s in the cards depending on a few things. House should be paid off in next 5 years.

Wife has a 401k with matching and stock options with her company.

I have 457b with matching.

I also have personal investments that I have done decent with over last 15 years. I invested heavily in divdend paying stocks. Right now I reinvest those dividends. When I retire they will be income. It’s not a lot but a few hundred extra every month will help.

Other revenue streams include rental property (inherited so we got lucky on that) and some physical assets that should appreciate in value and be fairly easy to sell when the time comes.

If I live past 80 then I would be surprised and won’t care about money.
 
Jimbob78

Jimbob78

Twelve Pointer
Retirement, what’s that? My retirement plan is to work until I’m no longer breathing. I’d be bored not working. But that brings up the question: must you have worked to retire? I don’t really feel like I have worked at all because I enjoy what I do immensely.
 
YanceyGreenhorn

YanceyGreenhorn

Still Not a Moderator
Jimbob78 said:
I don’t really feel like I have worked at all because I enjoy what I do immensely.
Click to expand...
that is flat out awesome. I have not arrived at that phase yet but I have a legitimate plan to get there. It’s gonna involve some sacrifice to have the financial backing, but I should know in the next couple months if that’s come to fruition.

In regards to the OP, besides “the usual” stuff, we try to keep money in accounts that accrue more interest than standard ones with less return. I take zero credit for it though. The time my wife spent working at a bank has been a game changer. She absolutely despised everything about the nature of the work and dealing with douche bags in the general public but she learned a lot
 
nccatfisher

nccatfisher

Old Mossy Horns
Contributor
Whatever you do you have to turn off the 'retirement planning' mindset sometime. One of the few times my wife and I have spirited debates is over this. With the sun never to set on 70 again you really need to have made what you are going to make and reaping what you have sowed. We had several funds were we could swap money around for years from completely safe to risky, and the dividends that were paid usually were accordingly. I changed mine about 5 years ago to all in safe to moderate stuff at most. My wife would still ride the edge and of course stay glued to the stock reports every evening, cringing when she would see -.

I have for the most part gotten her to relent and get most of hers in the safer stuff but she will still play with a little in high risk. A good rule to live by is if you can't afford to loose it don't risk it. So keep that in mind, especially when you are planning on your future.
 
YanceyGreenhorn

YanceyGreenhorn

Still Not a Moderator
nccatfisher said:
A good rule to live by is if you can't afford to loose it don't risk it. So keep that in mind, especially when you are planning on your future.
Click to expand...
yes sir Tim. My cousin quit a 70+ hour a week job when he realized he could make comparable money day trading. When, in my naïveté, I asked how he decides how much money to risk, he said exactly what you did. “I won’t put in anything I’m not willing to lose.”
 

oldest school

Old Mossy Horns
what is this lose stuff? I thought the markets always go up up and away?
you just put the money in and never ever sell and get rich. Then you have so much you cant spend it all.
i learned this here many times.
 

oldest school

Old Mossy Horns
YanceyGreenhorn said:
yes sir Tim. My cousin quit a 70+ hour a week job when he realized he could make comparable money day trading. When, in my naïveté, I asked how he decides how much money to risk, he said exactly what you did. “I won’t put in anything I’m not willing to lose.”
Click to expand...
that sounds like good gambling advice- great actually- but investing you probably aint willing to "lose" everything.
 
bwfarms

bwfarms

Old Mossy Horns
The short and sweet for the wife is 18% of her salary in 401k. It grew fast. She has a small Roth.

I on the other hand don't plan to fully retire as I will be a cattleman until the day I die, God willing. Those bovines will be a significant source of revenue so long the industry can stave off the gooberment regulations but that's crumbling.

I have a significant percentage in the stock exchange. 401k, Roth, and taxable accounts. I have assets that can be sold but would rather not, still the options there. Emergency source so to speak. I don't bank on SS check so whatever I get will be a nice 'surprise'.

I haven't announced it here yet but I took a new job that pays well with several bonus incentives so my free time to take pictures of deer has shrunk considerably. Part of my package is restricted stock which turns out to be 7% of my base pay. I will be participating in the purchase plan as well, more than likely will be maximizing what I can buy. I have resumed 401k contributions, for now have planned 6% to get the match with automatic increase and max the Roth. I haven't figured out my tax obligations yet so more than likely the 401k contributions will be increased.

Even with this planning I want a revenue stream that has no ties to the exchange or cows. Problem is most are capital intensive.

This is all coming from a man driving a 20 year old truck and a mortgage less than $450. I can really delay gratification. I'm struggling to convince myself to go ahead and buy that brand new truck and enjoy some of my money in case I die young. Either way my kids are going to have a good head start as they are the sole benefactors. I know... why not the wife. Trust me she will be fine.
 
QBD2

QBD2

Old Mossy Horns
That’s an ever changing equation. Liken it to turkey hunting, there is no always/maybe/never. It all just depends.

I just try to buy stuff that don’t cost money.
 
nccatfisher

nccatfisher

Old Mossy Horns
Contributor
oldest school said:
what is this lose stuff? I thought the markets always go up up and away?
you just put the money in and never ever sell and get rich. Then you have so much you cant spend it all.
i learned this here many times.
Click to expand...
Well a fellow that is a whole lot smarter than me told me once you never loose on the market as long as you can leave it alone long enough to recover. I have seen many good stocks that was true, but you sure had to have patience.
 
UncleFester

UncleFester

Old Mossy Horns
I have a 401k + 6% Match and a Pension. Those that were hired a few years after I was lost out on the pension, but gained a 10% 401k match. I think if played correctly they got a better deal. I have other investments as well as properties that I plan to sell at some point to consolidate. My wife is retiring after the next school year and honestly I hadn't even thought about a timeline for myself. I enjoy working, but of late believe I'm going to hang it up within the next five years, possibly four. If I can convince my wife to get another job and keep me up for a bit I'll hang it up a lil quicker...
 
woodmoose

woodmoose

Administrator
Staff member
Contributor
Firedog said:
The stock market thread started to go off the rails towards a retirement discussion so I figured why not have a thread just for thoughts on retirement financing. Not looking for anyone to divulge how much money they have or where more of a discussion about how you are planning to finance it, strategies, ideas etc.

Couple of starter questions:

Are you even planning for retirement (saving)
How much savings do you think you need to retire the way you want to at 65 assuming you will live until 90?,
How old do you assume you will live to in your current planning ?
Are you diversified or all in the market and if so in what?
Are you implementing a plan for multiple revenue streams, if so how many.?
For those that are already living the dream, did you do enough when you were working? What would you have done differently?

Again not trying to get into anybodies business, just an interesting subject that is getting much bigger in my personal windshield. The you know the more you know.. somebody might learn something, hoping it is me.
Click to expand...

See, I don’t get the whole “retirement planning “ thing
I retired from the Army (Federal for those who don’t know),,,,
Then I retired after 20 years working as a quasi-civilian in various private companies,,,
Now I run my own shebang,,,,

And I’ll do so till I can’t
 

30/06

Old Mossy Horns
I was going to post something similar to this after looking at the stock market thread the other day. What I’m most curious about is how much people think they’ll need.

If you go by 4% rule, maybe oversimplifies though, I’m a long way from where I need to be but think we’ll get there. We have a traditional IRA from rolled over 401ks, my last 2 have been Roth so we’ll have some Roth money to help with tax brackets, as well as essentially a private REIT. ROI on this should be good but it’s a higher risk/higher reward play and the hold time is unknown and driven by market conditions. Should everything pan out and the market not tank I should be able to throttle back at 55-60. Doubt I’ll ever fully retire and not work. Would like to knock it back to 3-4 day work week and find something a little more fulfilling.

The key imo is knocking back debt prior. We’re 100% debt free with lots of paid for real estate but that’s always hard to part with. We’re also going to build a house soon and there will be a small difference we’ll be financing but should knock out the difference in a few years if all stays consistent. When you have no big bills you have more freedom.
 

Homebrewale

Old Mossy Horns
My retirement planning stage is over. I'm in retirement. I already mentioned how much savings I needed in retirement. I determine what are my expected annual expenses. From that number, I subtract my pension. I need 25 times my expenses (after pension) in savings. This is based on the 4% safe withdrawal rule that's been studied by many. It is based on historical 30 year periods back to the Depression. As always, past results don't guarantee future results. Therefore, my wife and I didn't retire until we met our calculated savings number plus some extra as a cushion for the unexpected.

I am planning to live to 95 years old based on family history. I may die tomorrow. But I would rather die with money still in the bank than under a bridge under a cardboard box. The 4% rule above assumes a person still having 50-70% in the stock market. If you completely conservative with bonds and CDs, the plan will likely fail. Therefore, I am still maintaining that percentage. I moved from 100% stock investments up until retirement. I have moved some to 1-3 year Treasuries ETF and some to 6 month Treasuries. Also have some 1 year CDs. The stock investments are divided up into S&P 500 ETF, small company value ETF and total international stock ETF.

As for revenue streams, I will have three traditional ones - pension, SS, and investments. I do not have an interest in rental properties. I just don't want to be a landlord and deal with people. Yes, I know I could hire a management company. I just don't want to deal with issues like tenants trashing a place or the government allowing tenants to stay without paying like during Covid.
 
TrkyJedi

TrkyJedi

Eight Pointer
I worked in banking and finance in my earlier working career. For the last 26 years I have worked in state government with an accounting degree. Investing after my father's death in 1993 have taken care of my mother as she retired in her early 50's. My wife retired at 55 from the school system and I just retired at 60 in June. We have no debts except our house which is finance at 2.7% and I can make more money on that balance by leaving it invested than paying the house off. Our income per month is more now than when we were working. Rental property, investments and other income streams along with no debt goes a long way. When I say no debt, I'm talking the 2.7% I'm paying verses the 17-24% I'm making on the house balance. As far as investing, everyone says you don't lose when it goes down, if you don't sell. It always cycles back around.
 

Homebrewale

Old Mossy Horns
NCST8GUY said:
Also curious, but don't want to hijack the thread, for those involved in retirement plans through their employer, who has the best plans?

I've always felt unions = #1, retiring from the Federal Government =#2, and retiring from the State = #3.

Also, I rarely hear of companies matching up to 6% of 401K funds anymore. That used to be the easiest free money in the world.

I know several state retirees whom are enjoying retirement quite well. I don't know any union retirees or Fed retirees.
Click to expand...

Don't get me wrong. I like my state pension. But let's not assume state employees are living the luxury life in retirement. Here are the numbers. A state employee who is employed 30 years gets 54.6% of the average four highest earning years. State employees are paying 6% of their salary to earn that pension. A teacher making $50k will get pension of $27.3k in retirement. State employees hired after 2021(?) will not receive lifetime health insurance. Many state employees are underpaid compared to the private sector. In some fields, quite a bit below private market value. At 25 years, I reached an annual income of $64k which is lower than new engineers entering the private sector.

My wife worked in the private sector. Her 401k was matched 100% for the first 4% and 50% for the next 2%. My 401k was unmatched. I worked 30 years for the state and my wife worked 31 years for her employer. Her 401k due to matching is about 2.5x largr than mine. If you bought an annuity that pays equivalent to my pension, the amount needed to fund that annuity would be around the difference in value between her and my 401k. I would prefer having the higher 401k versus the pension.
 

GrizzlyBear

Old Mossy Horns
yeah......i have an IRA filled with rollovers from previous employers, a partial state gov pension, an active 401k with current employer with 4% match, etc etc.

I don't know how much money i need. I think of it more like cash flow to support retirement rather than lump sum.

Oh,....i have two investment accounts, charles schwab and robinhood. Combined they have about $1800. lololol.

I'll retire when I'm able (maybe 6-8 years) but the financial picture continues to evolve....kids in college, illnesses or not....etc etc.

It's amazing how diverse our portfolio has gotten without even trying.
 
wl704

wl704

Twelve Pointer
I'm 58 and kinda in quasi retirement, having been laid off in Feb. To date I've worked mostly for big (fortune 500 companies) rising squarely to middle manegement.

I started out putting 8 out so % into a 401k to get the match, and increased my contribution amount with each raise. My wife worked till it second child, then she stayed home and raised our eventual 5 kids. I eventually was able to max out my 401k contributions. At age 50 I started macing out the catch up contrib amount.

Along the way, I've been frugle. A few new vehicles, must mostly used driven till they were totaled (thanks kids) or cost more to repair than they were valued. I still drove a 2005 accord with 287k miles. We paid off the house around my house 50th and bought land that we intend(-ed) to build out retirement house on (aware from the city).

I don't expect to see social security, but if I do, it'll be gravy. I have some stocks from companies I've work for (espp & grants), and a couple small pensions. The little bit of debt I have, could be covered if I need to, without drawing on IRA/401k monies.

I have a good bit divested mostly in US money market (not dated) funds, with a concentration in S&P index, contra and value funds, some money market and a very small percentage in international and bond funds.

I've done OK.

I plan for my wife and I to live to 80-90s (as my parents and hers have). I eclectic this would take about 2-2.75m...this also includes building our retirement home on our land. I think I could be there and retire comfortably, if I can get a job here soon and work another 5 years...we'd build the new house and move.

On this may seem excessive to some, but, I'd like to be able to live mostly on interest/dividends and leave an inheritance to my kids and grand kids.
 
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