Regarding Free College Tuition

Newsome Road

Ten Pointer
Forget about who is paying and how. I just want to discuss the end result. In my opinion, there's one immediate issue. If you looked at colleges right now, and compared students who were held accountable for where their tuition money came from, and those who weren't, I bet there would be a very evident discrepancy in graduation rates and GPAs.

Here's what I noticed when I was in school....Students on academic scholarships generally work hard to keep them. Students who work their way through college appreciate the opportunity and see it as a means to a better end. Students taking a free ride on daddy's money tended to view it as a party for a year or two, then head back home and pick up where they left off. Obviously there were exceptions in all categories.

I imagine providing a free ride to people that were not necessarily motivated to be there will severely inflate that last category. I see a lot of people just riding it out as long as their free ride will allow and then heading back home, wasting a ton of someone's money.
 

Inshore duck

Six Pointer
Especially your athletic scholarship “students”. That’s a waste of money that could be used on a human being that intends to make a contribution to the advancement of our society. I was on full academic scholarship for my undergraduate degree, otherwise I likely would have never been able to afford to go to college. If my GPA fell below 3.5 I had to pay the bill, graduated with a 3.89. Just for the record throwing a ball into a hoop is not important. Get rid of all athletic scholarships and just let regular students play for fun.
 

turkeyfoot

Old Mossy Horns
I'm middle class white fella going through the process with kid now I never had chance to go to college so this whole process is new to me and the cost is just ridiculous and there is next to no help from what we've found for our bracket I really didn't know it was this high to go to school
 

took

Ten Pointer
Contributor
I paid my way through getting an Associates, Bachelors, and Masters while working full time. Took me about 25 years; but it was worth it. Just had to keep chipping away, and spent some late nights studying after getting the kids to bed.

I cannot imagine the kids that graduate today with a $100K student loan note; but I guess everyone has to find their own way. Paid for my daughters and now my son; but I did not want them to have to work and go to school the way I did. Told them as long as they made the grades and stayed out of trouble, I would pay the bill - working so far as they are good kids. But you are right turkey foot, it is expensive!

I still think the Community College system is likely the best deal going for an education. Learn a trade, or go into allied health, get a job in 2 years with great pay, and then go on to get your advanced degrees while working. The transfer credit available now through community college is very organized and cheaper.
 

richard corn

Six Pointer
Mentioning abolishing sports scholarships is doubled edged. even though the recipients often do nothing after their playing days the sport lines the universities pockets to the max. University of Texas athletic department netted about $150 million dollars and one of a few schools that has their own TV network.
 

Inshore duck

Six Pointer
Mentioning abolishing sports scholarships is doubled edged. even though the recipients often do nothing after their playing days the sport lines the universities pockets to the max. University of Texas athletic department netted about $150 million dollars and one of a few schools that has their own TV network.
The money goes to build bigger stadiums, pay coaches 5-8 million, and practice fields not for academic scholarships, university sponsored cancer research, etc... These programs making millions does not benefit me or you directly. Pisses you off as a student sitting in class after graduating valedictorian sitting next to an idiot “student athlete”in your class with 640 SAT score who is only there because he can throw a ball into a hoop. Again no real value to society.
 

Moses

Four Pointer
The money goes to build bigger stadiums, pay coaches 5-8 million, and practice fields not for academic scholarships, university sponsored cancer research, etc... These programs making millions does not benefit me or you directly. Pisses you off as a student sitting in class after graduating valedictorian sitting next to an idiot “student athlete”in your class with 640 SAT score who is only there because he can throw a ball into a hoop. Again no real value to society.
I think this an extremely broad stroke of student athletes. Are there athletes with 640 SAT scores, possibly a few depending on what school you are talking about. Being a former student athlete in college, your assumption of the average D1 student athlete is way off base.


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Dead Eye-NC

Eight Pointer
Most colleges are run by progressive liberals who make sure to raise tuition every single year! They sold the public on one big marketing scam- You must go to college and if you do graduate, you will have a great job waiting for you!
So borrow all the $ you can from Fed Govt thru student loans, pay more every single year in tuition n fees, , pay the Govt the interest on the loan, and its Win Win for everyone but the Student!

You finally graduate with a tremendous amount of debt and it’s very difficult to find suitable employment that will pay more than $30k-$40k per year! Better get your graduate degree now!




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Inshore duck

Six Pointer
I think this an extremely broad stroke of student athletes. Are there athletes with 640 SAT scores, possibly a few depending on what school you are talking about. Being a former student athlete in college, your assumption of the average D1 student athlete is way off base.


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Referring more to the full scholarship NBA/NFL training camp folks. Yes there were kids who could care less about class because in a year they would have a several million dollar signing bonus waiting on them. There were some student athletes who actually went to class and cared about their GPA. But I do not think there should be any athletic scholarships from the universities general budget. Athletics do not advance this country. It’s a child’s game, it’s a hobby. If the boosters want to pay for a bunch of kids to use them as a audition year and gain no academic advancement then so be it. Personally they should just go pro from high school and save us the funds but that’s another debate all together.
 

hunter

Six Pointer
Contributor
I suspect I would be OK with state schools having free tuition along with some caveats. Must maintain a decent GPA, actually graduate, get the basics out of the way in community college, focus on STEM degrees, etc. The devil would be in the details. Basically get the students that are serious about graduating out of school and into the full time work force with little or no debt.
 

beard&bow

Ten Pointer
Contributor
I finished 2 years of school in July. And when I say two years, I mean everyday, 6 straight semesters, Monday-Friday 8am-2pm. My class started with 24 and 10 graduated. Of the ones that graduated 3 were using the GI Bill, 3 were on parents money, 2 paid their own way and 2 were using federal loans.

Of the ones that didn't make it, the few I knew personally, were working full time and it was hard to balance the work load.

Just my small experience, but I hope to expand on it in the coming years. I plan to get my bachelors, then masters. Something like physics, aerospace engineering, or chemical engineering. Aerospace engineering wouldn't be that far off from my background, but i like a challenge. I also want my children to not have a college shock. Neither of my parents went, and my first go-round 15 years ago, I didn't have the discipline. I don't want my children to ever stop learning and I hope to set the example. I also hope I can afford going to school again. Hahaha.
 
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ECU_Pirate

Eight Pointer
I'm all for paying for an associate degree. That's like 3000 max for each person. A lot of these degrees can land you good paying jobs and you'll have no debt. To me this should be automatic if someone is on welfare or some sort of government aid. The money saved in the long run by them working, not receiving government aid, and paying taxes would be huge.
 

dbohunts

Six Pointer
Especially your athletic scholarship “students”. That’s a waste of money that could be used on a human being that intends to make a contribution to the advancement of our society. I was on full academic scholarship for my undergraduate degree, otherwise I likely would have never been able to afford to go to college. If my GPA fell below 3.5 I had to pay the bill, graduated with a 3.89. Just for the record throwing a ball into a hoop is not important. Get rid of all athletic scholarships and just let regular students play for fun.
Yea because no student on an athletic scholarship has ever contributed to the advancement of our society. For a guy who earned full academic scholarship, that's a pretty narrow minded statement.
 

Inshore duck

Six Pointer
Yea because no student on an athletic scholarship has ever contributed to the advancement of our society. For a guy who earned full academic scholarship, that's a pretty narrow minded statement.
I never stated that all athletic scholarship yielded no contribution but I wager that it is many times less than those of academic scholarships especially now. I am not narrowed minded I just feel we waste millions of dollars in “free tuition” on people who are brought to the university to play a game. I earned my scholarships. I don’t subscribe to the Obama logic that you just “gave” me anything.
 

ECU_Pirate

Eight Pointer
Those athletes defacto contribute millions of dollars each year to the school. Probably more than almost anyone who went on an academic scholarship combined. They are helping out plenty. Even if they never do anything after college in life the school already made millions upon millions off of them. For what? 30-100k apiece depending on the school. Earning an academic scholarship is great. Many of the guys that get athletic scholarships also put in a ton of hard work. Why shouldn't they be rewarded as well?
 

jbaldwin

Four Pointer
I had a D1 athletic scholarship and played at App Sate for 3 years and graduated with a degree in Biology and Health and Physical education. Was drafted and dealt in the upper levels a year. Decided it was not for me and took my education to the next level and finished my Masters and preceded to teach school for 37 years . No scholarship. My life would have been way worse.
 

NCdoe

Ten Pointer
One of our best friends had a son at Carolina. After getting away from home he found out he liked the party life at Carolina (the kid was brilliant). He flunked out his Freshman year. His parents told him they sent him to school so he could get an education. Told him he had to go to work and pay them back for the year he wasted. After working and paying them back he went back to school, worked and paid his way thru college.
 

Newsome Road

Ten Pointer
One of our best friends had a son at Carolina. After getting away from home he found out he liked the party life at Carolina (the kid was brilliant). He flunked out his Freshman year. His parents told him they sent him to school so he could get an education. Told him he had to go to work and pay them back for the year he wasted. After working and paying them back he went back to school, worked and paid his way thru college.
This is exactly what I was trying to describe in my OP, except when it's free to start with, there's no one to even worry about paying back.
 

dbohunts

Six Pointer
I never stated that all athletic scholarship yielded no contribution but I wager that it is many times less than those of academic scholarships especially now. I am not narrowed minded I just feel we waste millions of dollars in “free tuition” on people who are brought to the university to play a game. I earned my scholarships. I don’t subscribe to the Obama logic that you just “gave” me anything.
You don't believe in athletic scholarships, fine, but your argument makes no sense. You don't subscribe to Obama logic of "gave me anything"? Your academic scholarship money came from the same government pool of money that the athletic scholarship money comes from.

You "earned" your scholarships. So do the student athletes who play games. Their money may be earned through physical vigor instead of academic money like you, but it was still earned. And honestly it was probably earned from both academic and athletic achievement.

If you do a little research you'll see the vast majority of student athletes are some of the strongest and most successful students.

I think your basing your argument on a small snapshot of scholarship athletes (most likely football and basketball) since those are the 2 most visible in the media.

For what its worth...I was a 2 sport college athlete that got 80 percent of my college paid for on academic scholarship. One of my groomsmen was on a full ride to play football, he's now a well respected oncologist at WVU. (And I voted for Trump, so don't mistake my argument for his support :)
 

Inshore duck

Six Pointer
I honestly think community colleges and trade schools should be an option discussed with these high school kids. A 4 yr degree is not always necessary. Our niece went to community college and makes 60k/annual as a rad tech. Going off to “find yourself” at the current cost of colleges/universities is a bad financial decision. Best option now is do your gen eds at a community college and transfer as much as possible to a university.
 

Firedog

Old Mossy Horns
Contributor
Nothing that is free has any value. My daughter is in school now, like was done for me so it is for her. I pay her tuition and rent (food while she lives on campus) outside of that is on her and she is expected to do well.

However, those financial lessons can not start when the leave for college nor can the expectations. If parents have not done there job by the time the kid heads to college or wherever they go at 18, well then it is too late.
 

Inshore duck

Six Pointer
You don't believe in athletic scholarships, fine, but your argument makes no sense. You don't subscribe to Obama logic of "gave me anything"? Your academic scholarship money came from the same government pool of money that the athletic scholarship money comes from.

You "earned" your scholarships. So do the student athletes who play games. Their money may be earned through physical vigor instead of academic money like you, but it was still earned. And honestly it was probably earned from both academic and athletic achievement.

If you do a little research you'll see the vast majority of student athletes are some of the strongest and most successful students.

I think your basing your argument on a small snapshot of scholarship athletes (most likely football and basketball) since those are the 2 most visible in the media.

For what its worth...I was a 2 sport college athlete that got 80 percent of my college paid for on academic scholarship. One of my groomsmen was on a full ride to play football, he's now a well respected oncologist at WVU. (And I voted for Trump, so don't mistake my argument for his support :)
I honestly have no problem with the sincere student athletes I guess I should have presented my position differently. If someone is actually there to advance academically and realizes that they are using it a stepping stone to an actual career (not professional athletics), that’s great. There were several future MDs on Michael Jordan’s national championship team at Carolina. My point is I don’t like the idea of full scholarship kids that use college as a single season NBA/NFL training camp especially when their scholarships came from the general scholarship fund of the university thereby decreasing opportunities for kids who actually want to “be there”.
 

Greg

Old Mossy Horns
If you think it's expensive NOW … wait until it's "free".



 

Firedog

Old Mossy Horns
Contributor
I honestly have no problem with the sincere student athletes I guess I should have presented my position differently. If someone is actually there to advance academically and realizes that they are using it a stepping stone to an actual career (not professional athletics), that’s great. There were several future MDs on Michael Jordan’s national championship team at Carolina. My point is I don’t like the idea of full scholarship kids that use college as a single season NBA/NFL training camp especially when their scholarships came from the general scholarship fund of the university thereby decreasing opportunities for kids who actually want to “be there”.
Is the point of college not to prepare someone for their chosen carrer? If you are intending to be a professional athlete should college not prepare you for that?

I love how you so flippantly talk about an actual career like professional athletics are not.. There are 10s of thousands of people who make a very good living in professional athletics. What appears to be personal bias, seems to be overriding critical thinking.

Most full scholarships for athletes are paid for by the athletics programs not general funds, and it is a fallacy to think they take away an opportunity from non-athletes and would not exist w/o the high end athletes. As a matter of fact w/o those high end ones many swimmers or wrestlers, or volleyball players would be denied scholarships.
 

Homebrewale

Old Mossy Horns
Nothing that is free has any value. My daughter is in school now, like was done for me so it is for her. I pay her tuition and rent (food while she lives on campus) outside of that is on her and she is expected to do well.

However, those financial lessons can not start when the leave for college nor can the expectations. If parents have not done there job by the time the kid heads to college or wherever they go at 18, well then it is too late.
I wish I could like a post more than once. I agree that if a kid goes off to school partying, it's a reflection on the parenting skills of the parents. Kids should know expectations before stepping on campus. The parents should track their grades to see if the kids are living up to their end of the agreement. Any kid that has spent 4 years of partying and poor grades was not being monitored by the parents closely enough.
 

bigten

Twelve Pointer
Contributor
Nothing that is free has any value.
I highly disagree with this statement.
I'm sure if you reflect on knowledge/experiences you have gained at no cost to you, there will be a significant value realized.
I gained invaluable knowledge from my father prior to his passing while I was 21 years old. I can only imagine what I could have gained if allowed additional years. And that was given to me without cost.
This is but one example...
 

Moses

Four Pointer
I honestly have no problem with the sincere student athletes I guess I should have presented my position differently. If someone is actually there to advance academically and realizes that they are using it a stepping stone to an actual career (not professional athletics), that’s great. There were several future MDs on Michael Jordan’s national championship team at Carolina. My point is I don’t like the idea of full scholarship kids that use college as a single season NBA/NFL training camp especially when their scholarships came from the general scholarship fund of the university thereby decreasing opportunities for kids who actually want to “be there”.
So student athletes can’t still have the dream of playing professionally and be successful academically?

Athletic scholarships are not the problem IMO, it is the financial aid given to students based on their parents income bracket from the government.

I watched very talented athletes on full rides (combination of athletic money & government assistance) fail out because they had no skin in the game.

Between athletic & academic money I was on a 70% scholarship and took out the dreaded student loans. I have a respectable career and am free of student loan debt 6 years out of school. I had no government assistance and for what it’s worth that is the money that is getting wasted. Trust me the universities are getting the ROI on the athletic money they are giving to athletes.


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josh

Twelve Pointer
You are spot on that the last category would definitely increase.

I didn’t go to college right after high school and decided to start at 22. I worked full time during. It was eye opening the amount of folks that where there just wasting time and their parents money. There were people in my program (forestry) that had little to no interest in it and where there just because they picked a degree on the list.

A lot of them ended up dropping or switching majors
 
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