Pegg Family - Wow!

Ambush

Twelve Pointer

Got ya, good county. What was his gross score? For sure, he was born with great genetics. Minerals sure can’t hurt, but we spent several thousand over several years with little change. We took it to the next level this year. We saw better results, but need another year to confirm.
 

TrkyJedi

Eight Pointer
Got ya, good county. What was his gross score? For sure, he was born with great genetics. Minerals sure can’t hurt, but we spent several thousand over several years with little change. We took it to the next level this year. We saw better results, but need another year to confirm.
I scored him @ 162 the day he was killed, 6 months later @ the classic they grossed him @ 156. He won crossbow typical.
 

CutNRun

Ten Pointer
Contributor
Was it it fenced? If not, exactly how did he know the buck to doe ratio and keep it at 1:1 - 1:2? Inquiring minds want to know. How did he keep does from neighboring properties from filling the void left by the countless number of does removed to keep the 1:1 - 1:2 ratio? :unsure:

<>< Fish
His property was the side of a mountain and an agricultural field in the valley down to the creek. The other side of the creek was fenced from a non-hunting related business., which cut off a huge tract of land for hunting & deer travel. Of course some deer wandered off and onto other properties, but this guy also leased neighboring land, more to keep others off than needing more land to hunt. He probable controlled 2,500-3,000 acres that nobody else messed with. He had dozens of cameras out and knew many deer on sight with notebooks for each feeder & camera. He also built protein stations to go with mineral sites, so he knew what deer used which parts of his land and which deer used which feeders. He also built heavy nets above the feeders to remove and catch sheds in the Spring. He was the regional distributor of Coke and Anheuser Busch products for southern Virginia, and money was not an issue. Bob told me one day that he'd rather grow & hunt deer locally than spend lots of money traveling away from home to hunt. His work kept him busy, but he made having a great place to hunt at home pay off. I will see if I can find any pictures of his trophy room. It was absolutely insane. His deer management methods really worked, but he had LOTS more land and money to play with than most of us will ever know. He died from an aortic aneurysm several years ago and I still miss him every day.

Jim
 

Buffet Trout

Twelve Pointer
Meh...nice deer, but not natural. Kinda like steroids or plastic surgery.

Scoring should be in a different category if it’s a result of anything that isn’t natural
 

CutNRun

Ten Pointer
Contributor
Meh...nice deer, but not natural. Kinda like steroids or plastic surgery.

Scoring should be in a different category if it’s a result of anything that isn’t natural

Kinda how I saw it too. He definitely got outstanding results, but his success would have meant more if the bucks were not "farmed".

I have fed the deer every day at my house for 26 years (I don't shoot them) and I see at least one bigger than average buck here every year around the peak of the rut. It would be a slam dunk to kill one, but it would be about like hunting sparrows over a bird feeder. I figure that since I take from somewhere, I also need to give back somewhere else.

Since Bob is no longer alive, I'd be interested to see what the genetics of the deer are in that area these days. He definitely improved the herd, but what is it now that is has reverted back to a natural balance?

Jim
 

Ambush

Twelve Pointer
His property was the side of a mountain and an agricultural field in the valley down to the creek. The other side of the creek was fenced from a non-hunting related business., which cut off a huge tract of land for hunting & deer travel. Of course some deer wandered off and onto other properties, but this guy also leased neighboring land, more to keep others off than needing more land to hunt. He probable controlled 2,500-3,000 acres that nobody else messed with. He had dozens of cameras out and knew many deer on sight with notebooks for each feeder & camera. He also built protein stations to go with mineral sites, so he knew what deer used which parts of his land and which deer used which feeders. He also built heavy nets above the feeders to remove and catch sheds in the Spring. He was the regional distributor of Coke and Anheuser Busch products for southern Virginia, and money was not an issue. Bob told me one day that he'd rather grow & hunt deer locally than spend lots of money traveling away from home to hunt. His work kept him busy, but he made having a great place to hunt at home pay off. I will see if I can find any pictures of his trophy room. It was absolutely insane. His deer management methods really worked, but he had LOTS more land and money to play with than most of us will ever know. He died from an aortic aneurysm several years ago and I still miss him every day.

Jim

I would’ve loved to have talked to that guy. It’s one thing to try to improve nutrition for better health and antler growth. Having that many acres to yourself increases odds for mature bucks tremendously. Trying to do the same with a club, to get all on the same page about whether to pass or shoot certain bucks is all but impossible. Would love to see some of his photos.
 

Ambush

Twelve Pointer
Kinda how I saw it too. He definitely got outstanding results, but his success would have meant more if the bucks were not "farmed".

I have fed the deer every day at my house for 26 years (I don't shoot them) and I see at least one bigger than average buck here every year around the peak of the rut. It would be a slam dunk to kill one, but it would be about like hunting sparrows over a bird feeder. I figure that since I take from somewhere, I also need to give back somewhere else.

Since Bob is no longer alive, I'd be interested to see what the genetics of the deer are in that area these days. He definitely improved the herd, but what is it now that is has reverted back to a natural balance?

Jim

Genetics should be the same. Whether the quality of antlers have declined without the high protein feed, minerals and strict hunting restrictions....would be interesting to see if that happened.
 

pattersonj11

Old Mossy Horns
Contributor
One negative thing that is happening some is that nice mature deer are the targets. This creates a breeding scenario for many younger bucks that may or may not be what needs to be breeding if you are wanting to maximize what genetics are there.

Scrub/management bucks have to be watched closely. Sometimes they need to be removed and big nice deer remain
 

FishHunt

Old Mossy Horns
His property was the side of a mountain and an agricultural field in the valley down to the creek. The other side of the creek was fenced from a non-hunting related business., which cut off a huge tract of land for hunting & deer travel. Of course some deer wandered off and onto other properties, but this guy also leased neighboring land, more to keep others off than needing more land to hunt. He probable controlled 2,500-3,000 acres that nobody else messed with. He had dozens of cameras out and knew many deer on sight with notebooks for each feeder & camera. He also built protein stations to go with mineral sites, so he knew what deer used which parts of his land and which deer used which feeders. He also built heavy nets above the feeders to remove and catch sheds in the Spring. He was the regional distributor of Coke and Anheuser Busch products for southern Virginia, and money was not an issue. Bob told me one day that he'd rather grow & hunt deer locally than spend lots of money traveling away from home to hunt. His work kept him busy, but he made having a great place to hunt at home pay off. I will see if I can find any pictures of his trophy room. It was absolutely insane. His deer management methods really worked, but he had LOTS more land and money to play with than most of us will ever know. He died from an aortic aneurysm several years ago and I still miss him ev

Cool story. Really didn't address the questions asked though. Sorry your friend has passed on.

<>< Fish
 

Ambush

Twelve Pointer
One negative thing that is happening some is that nice mature deer are the targets. This creates a breeding scenario for many younger bucks that may or may not be what needs to be breeding if you are wanting to maximize what genetics are there.

Scrub/management bucks have to be watched closely. Sometimes they need to be removed and big nice deer remain

That’s been going on for years. Our late landowner made a rule 8 points or better. We lived it for a decade. Mature 6 & 7 pointers were passed while 2.5 year old 8’s...with the best antler potential were killed. Those old 6-7 pointers did a lot of breeding, passing on at least half of their genes. He/we finally changed our rules. I burned both of my tags last season and shot two of the most dominant bucks on our club...mature 6’s. I held out for a shooter this year. Some folks say you can’t influence genetics in free range deer, but I believe you can.
 

pattersonj11

Old Mossy Horns
Contributor
No such thing as a management buck. You'll never control genetics in a wild setting.

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If you are taken out of the gene pool, you will not continue to pass on genes.

You may not be able to control every aspect of it, but you can influence it for sure.

If you shoot a really nice 2-3 year old deer, he can’t continue to breed. The scrubby bucks that never grow into more than a 6 point or the ones that seem to always be cow horns or weird 4 pointers continue to breed.
 

MoBucks

Old Mossy Horns
If you are taken out of the gene pool, you will not continue to pass on genes.

You may not be able to control every aspect of it, but you can influence it for sure.

If you shoot a really nice 2-3 year old deer, he can’t continue to breed. The scrubby bucks that never grow into more than a 6 point or the ones that seem to always be cow horns or weird 4 pointers continue to breed.

Unless you are killing every doe, the mama that spreads then genes is out there spitting them out none the less


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Ambush

Twelve Pointer
Unless you are killing every doe, the mama that spreads then genes is out there spitting them out none the less


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He and I both said influence. No way to completely control genetics in wild deer. That’s why I said taking out mature six pointers only controls 50% of the genes. Many of the older sub par bucks get a pass before younger bucks with greater antler potential. In the high fence world, there’s a reason the best breeder bucks bring high dollars for their fawns and semen. And in that world they actually do know which does throw high scoring offspring.
 

pattersonj11

Old Mossy Horns
Contributor
I guess you have to look at it over 20-30 years. It’s not something happening over night for sure. You never know what the does have....but t he bucks show their genes. If you manage them....you get a say so in a small percentage of the genes. Probably never more than 10-15%
 

CutNRun

Ten Pointer
Contributor
I would’ve loved to have talked to that guy. It’s one thing to try to improve nutrition for better health and antler growth. Having that many acres to yourself increases odds for mature bucks tremendously. Trying to do the same with a club, to get all on the same page about whether to pass or shoot certain bucks is all but impossible. Would love to see some of his photos.


He was a great guy and a Bad@$$. Bob was a Vietnam Vet, who invested his hazardous duty combat pay in that piece of land as soon as he got back to the States. The forward observer job he volunteered for had one of the highest casualty rates and he never expected to live long enough to finish his first tour. He ended up doing three tours of duty and living to tell about it. He was an awesome rifle shot, but mostly hunted with a bow & arrows he made himself with stone points he knapped himself. That's how I met him, through another knapping buddy. He made money at almost everything he did. The world is not a better place since he left it.

He wouldn't shoot a buck until it was at least 5 years old. If there were cull bucks around, he would invite handicapped hunters and veterans to take them. They would invite neighbors and friends to help take out 25-30 does a year and would donate the meat to homeless shelters and church groups. He was the most serious deer manager and one of the best people I ever knew.

Jim
 

Ambush

Twelve Pointer
He was a great guy and a Bad@$$. Bob was a Vietnam Vet, who invested his hazardous duty combat pay in that piece of land as soon as he got back to the States. The forward observer job he volunteered for had one of the highest casualty rates and he never expected to live long enough to finish his first tour. He ended up doing three tours of duty and living to tell about it. He was an awesome rifle shot, but mostly hunted with a bow & arrows he made himself with stone points he knapped himself. That's how I met him, through another knapping buddy. He made money at almost everything he did. The world is not a better place since he left it.

He wouldn't shoot a buck until it was at least 5 years old. If there were cull bucks around, he would invite handicapped hunters and veterans to take them. They would invite neighbors and friends to help take out 25-30 does a year and would donate the meat to homeless shelters and church groups. He was the most serious deer manager and one of the best people I ever knew.

Jim

Yeah, sounds like he was an amazing guy for our country. Thank goodness I was born a couple years late to make the trip over there. Also, Bob was way before his time, managing deer in NC. Until just recently, the state has shown little interest in deer antler research...so we had to do it on our own. Being that when I started deer hunting 45 years ago when your season was made if you shot a buck, any size buck, at this point in my life I’m fascinated with the entire whitetail deer antler growing cycle. My group has learned a ton of new research just over the past year.

Speaking of knapping, my good friend started making hand made bows and arrows before he got ALS. He was starting to get good at it before he got sick. Killed a nice buck with his own handmade stuff. I’ve collected arrow heads my entire life from the fields I plowed. Started buying a few until I found out really skilled guys can make them and make them look old. My brother in law is big time into Indian artifacts though.
 

timekiller13

Old Mossy Horns
Putting out minerals is a waste of money for anything other than attracting deer to a certain spot. There are plenty of studies out there that show that supplemental mineral/protein feeding on free range deer has no real impact on their antler growth. Deer get the majority of their minerals from their forage and the soil in the area.
 

JONOV

Old Mossy Horns
Was it it fenced? If not, exactly how did he know the buck to doe ratio and keep it at 1:1 - 1:2? Inquiring minds want to know. How did he keep does from neighboring properties from filling the void left by the countless number of does removed to keep the 1:1 - 1:2 ratio? :unsure:

<>< Fish
You have to consider that when you're controlling 2500 or 3000 acres, you change the playing field. Deer can live and die without setting foot outside of his little kingdom.

A lot of things that make no difference or are impossible for a guy on a 300 acre property are possible on 3000 acres.
 

JONOV

Old Mossy Horns
That county has good deer already,not hard to kill big deer when,the area has what is required to make,them,letting deer get older,and having prime,ground helps,alot.Plus,nothing like luck.
I agree...it doesn't surprise me one bit if they have either a lot of land, or a good piece of land with no hunting pressure around it, or (much less likely) neighbors with similar goals. Counties surrounding Forsyth produce a lot of big deer, Rockingham, Guilford, Stokes...
 

Rubline

Twelve Pointer
Putting out minerals is a waste of money for anything other than attracting deer to a certain spot. There are plenty of studies out there that show that supplemental mineral/protein feeding on free range deer has no real impact on their antler growth. Deer get the majority of their minerals from their forage and the soil in the area.

If the forage and soil in a certain area are good wouldn't added mineral/protein help?
 

FishHunt

Old Mossy Horns
You have to consider that when you're controlling 2500 or 3000 acres, you change the playing field. Deer can live and die without setting foot outside of his little kingdom.

A lot of things that make no difference or are impossible for a guy on a 300 acre property are possible on 3000 acres.

Still not addressing the statements made by the guy I quoted or addressing the questions I asked.

For quite a period of time my family had control of 3000+ acres in SC that produced some 150+" deer and without continually shooting does during the season and out of the season there is no way the buck/doe ratio would have ever reached 1:1 or 1:2. If you shoot the whole doe herd out without a fence the does from neighboring properties will move in for the food/water/resources that kept the original does in place.

<>< Fish
 
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timekiller13

Old Mossy Horns
If the forage and soil in a certain area are good wouldn't added mineral/protein help?
In a free range environment, you cannot supplementally feed deer enough minerals to make a difference. Deer get the majority of their food/nutrient intake from natural browse/hard and soft mast.
 

Ambush

Twelve Pointer
In a free range environment, you cannot supplementally feed deer enough minerals to make a difference. Deer get the majority of their food/nutrient intake from natural browse/hard and soft mast.

You would think. But, if Jan through April a deer has a choice of browse or high protein feed with minerals, they will hit the supplemental feed every day. If they eat it every day thru out antler growing season, it will make a difference. Just how much is the key. Train the yearlings on the feeders and as they get older they aren't afraid of them. Food is scarce in late winter and spring until green up. It takes a lot of work, money and dedication to get the full effect.
 

JONOV

Old Mossy Horns
Still not addressing the statements made by the guy I quoted or addressing the questions I asked.

For quite a period of time my family had control of 3000+ acres in SC that produced some 150+" deer and without continually shooting does during the season and out of the season there is no way the buck/doe ratio would have ever reached 1:1 or 1:2. If you shoot the whole doe herd out without a fence the does from neighboring properties will move in for the food/water/resources that kept the original does in place.

<>< Fish
If you don’t kill any deer, isn’t the balance going to be 1:1 anyway?
 
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