On the subject of the Creedmore

surveyor

Twelve Pointer
On a whim, I done some googling to see if someone ran a real comparison between the metric abomination and the venerable 257 Roberts.

And the consensus on the internet is clear. Creedmore blows the Bob away.

But all the internet guru's indicate its because of the availability of brass, and/or the lack of adequate barrel twists in existing Bobs.

So the question really still remains:

If not for the shooting media hype driven craze of the 25 Creedmore, if the same logistics would have been put into the Ackley Improved 257 Roberts, and a proper twist, would we even need the creedmore, and Mr. Roberts would be given his due recognition?
 

woodmoose

Administrator
Staff member
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If not for the shooting media hype driven craze of the 25 Creedmore, if the same logistics would have been put into the Ackley Improved 257 Roberts, and a proper twist, would we even need the creedmore, and Mr. Roberts would be given his due recognition?


exactly,,,,

but new cartridges sell guns and provide fodder for magazine articles and videos,,,
 

Downeast

Twelve Pointer
Since no major manufacturer has picked up the cartridge it will die a not so slow death. Most of the quarter bore cartridges have suffered from the lack of decent bullets and poor (outdated?) twist rates. The 25 Creed is nothing more than a necked down 6.5 Creedmore (.264) or a blown out 6mm Creedmore (.243). I spent a lot of time looking for a .243 WIN or a 6mm REM with a decent twist rate in an over-the-counter gun and they did not exist (except for Ruger who dropped the RPR in .243 WIN with a 1:8) so I purchased a 6mm Creed and never looked back. If one of the mfg.'s had simply changed the twist from 1:10 to 1:8 and opened up the throat a bit in the .243 WIN the 6mm Creed would never been needed. They could have done the same thing with the .257 Bob and the 25-06 REM (the only big difference is that they are LA's vs SA in the others) and the 25 Creed too would not be needed.

As a side note there are a lot of negative opinions on the 6.5 Creedmore that in my opinion are not true. It is an excellent target round especially for medium range (600 -900 yards) not as much as to the validity of the caliber but again due to the fabulous bullets and the twist rate.

What is needed is for the major gun manufacturers to review the twist rates and chamber dimensions of all their offerings (new and old cartridge's) to take advantage of the major advancements in bullet technology.
 
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surveyor

Twelve Pointer
What is needed is for the major gun manufacturers to review the twist rates and chamber dimensions of all their offerings (new and old cartridge's) to take advantage of the major advancements in bullet technology.
Exactly.

And it's happened on occasion. Just not enough. IIRC, the original Rem 788 6mm rem had a 12 twist? that they later brought down to 10.

Is the profitability associated with offering varied twists and chamber tunings in existing cartridges less than just making a new cartridge and all the production associated there of? I suppose when you can get all the pundits on board with the latter, it may be.
 

Downeast

Twelve Pointer
Exactly.

And it's happened on occasion. Just not enough. IIRC, the original Rem 788 6mm rem had a 12 twist? that they later brought down to 10.

Is the profitability associated with offering varied twists and chamber tunings in existing cartridges less than just making a new cartridge and all the production associated there of? I suppose when you can get all the pundits on board with the latter, it may be.
Since most hunters have no clue (sadly) on twist rates, seating depths, or even bullet selection it probably makes more sense to produce a new cartridge and then hype it and sell it as the new bells-n-whistles gun of the year.
 

Downeast

Twelve Pointer
When it comes to .25 caliber cartridges I really like the .257 Wby. It has a lot of freebore and you can easily load 120 grain bullets. But again there should be some leeway on twist rates. I shoot 100 grain bullets at 3400 fps and it simply zaps deer like blue lightning. The Bob came out in the late 30's, the 257 Bee in 1945 so they are both quite "old" cartridges but it took over 50 years for the gadget gurus to outrun the .257 Bee, if they ever really have.
 

pcbuckhunter

Old Mossy Horns
Contributor
When it comes to .25 caliber cartridges I really like the .257 Wby. It has a lot of freebore and you can easily load 120 grain bullets. But again there should be some leeway on twist rates. I shoot 100 grain bullets at 3400 fps and it simply zaps deer like blue lightning. The Bob came out in the late 30's, the 257 Bee in 1945 so they are both quite "old" cartridges but it took over 50 years for the gadget gurus to outrun the .257 Bee, if they ever really have.
I’ll agree about the .257 Wby. I can shove 110 gr Accubonds out the muzzle at 3370 ish and still keep a 1/2” or so group. Those Accubonds hit like the hand of God.

At one time I had thoughts of building a .257 STW, before I got the Weatherby. Now I’ve nixed that idea and have moved on to debating about building an STA cartridge with my 8mm Rem Mag instead.
 

appmtnhntr

Twelve Pointer
I’ll agree about the .257 Wby. I can shove 110 gr Accubonds out the muzzle at 3370 ish and still keep a 1/2” or so group. Those Accubonds hit like the hand of God.

At one time I had thoughts of building a .257 STW, before I got the Weatherby. Now I’ve nixed that idea and have moved on to debating about building an STA cartridge with my 8mm Rem Mag instead.
I passed up a 7mm STW Ruger No1 standard years ago for $600. It was way more than I had extra at the time.

Still think that’s the perfect “western” round.
 

pcbuckhunter

Old Mossy Horns
Contributor
I passed up a 7mm STW Ruger No1 standard years ago for $600. It was way more than I had extra at the time.

Still think that’s the perfect “western” round.
I’ve got 2 7mm STW’s currently, although one just pisses me off, so it’s likely to make tracks.

I love the cartridge. I made my longest confirmed kill with one.
It will flat trot a 140 gr bullet out there if you really put the screws to it.
I’ve settled on a load with the 150 gr Accubond LR in my current hunting gun.

I was screwing around years ago with one and loaded up some 120 gr Nosler Ballistic Tips I had gotten somewhere or another. I could approach 3700 fps with them, but that was WAAY overdriving those bullets. I was getting pressure signs to drive them that fast. I backed off and settled on a load at right around 3625 and could get a sub 1” group. I blistered some groundhogs with it including one at a touch over 600 yards. It will literally obliterate a ground hog. Close in, basically all that was left was some fur, a few assorted entrails and a greasy spot.
 

surveyor

Twelve Pointer
A long long time ago, I used to run a fast twist 300 win mag and did some crazy stuff with it, before I found the joy of chunking big lead.

I guess if you're willing to invest time and resources, it's possible to push any existing cartridge into a needed purpose.

Of course, I hunted deer with a 222 rem before small calibers were cool for cervid.
 

TravisLH

Old Mossy Horns
I did drink the Creedmoor koolaid but my 308s aren’t going any where. I agree that part of its success is it has really only been offered in the optimum rifling, others that could match it suffer from not having the optimum rifling.
Another boon the Creedmoor has is higher BC bullets that are perfectly matched for its rifling and is offered by and in just about every mfg/style
 

shotgunner

Ten Pointer
I love my 6.5. Not sure why so many hate it. Is it the "perfect" caliber? No, but there is no such thing in my mind. It shoots the size bullets I like, 130-140 gr., Good ballistics and little recoil. I love my .25-06 and our 30-06. I love the variety and think we pretty much have all of North America covered. I did not go out and buy it "just to have" a 6.5. But I was getting a new rifle and it checked all the boxes for me.
 

woodmoose

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OK. I'll bite. What makes the .260 better than the 6.5 CM? I have several rifles in both. From a practical perspective I can't really say one is better than the other. If anything, availability of components and loaded ammo might favor the CM.

260, due to a slightly larger case, can provide a bit more velocity,,, so if you build a 260 with a 1:8 or even a 1:7 twist rate and it would outperform the 6.5 with the larger (and thus longer) bullets,,,

but the difference is negligible,,, like the difference in most cartridges of similar size,,,

if you like the 6.5 creedmore, have at it,,,

me,,, I'm working on getting a 32 rimfire back to life,,,still
 

pcbuckhunter

Old Mossy Horns
Contributor
260, due to a slightly larger case, can provide a bit more velocity,,, so if you build a 260 with a 1:8 or even a 1:7 twist rate and it would outperform the 6.5 with the larger (and thus longer) bullets,,,

but the difference is negligible,,, like the difference in most cartridges of similar size,,,

if you like the 6.5 creedmore, have at it,,,

me,,, I'm working on getting a 32 rimfire back to life,,,still
I don’t currently have a 6.5 short action among my collection, although, if I did it would likely be a 6.5 Rem Mag…. but that’s neither here nor there.

I’m interested in this .32 rimfire business…
I know of a feller who has a .44 rimfire, originally of 1860 repeater vintage, that he’s recently began firing in great volume.

But this .32 has stricken my curiosity…. Do tell….
 

woodmoose

Administrator
Staff member
Contributor
I don’t currently have a 6.5 short action among my collection, although, if I did it would likely be a 6.5 Rem Mag…. but that’s neither here nor there.

I’m interested in this .32 rimfire business…
I know of a feller who has a .44 rimfire, originally of 1860 repeater vintage, that he’s recently began firing in great volume.

But this .32 has stricken my curiosity…. Do tell….


patience,,, working a few kinks, but will have a repeatable solution this winter (in between boondoggles),,, my first attempts I used to much power and jammed up my reloadable brass,,,

I am a fan of the old "Boy's Rifles" and cruise guns shops for them,,,, got this one from a fellow here in NC,,, it's a project on the stock but metal is awesome,,,

I have a 100 rounds of factory, but since they quit making it, that stuff's to valuable to actually shoot
 

pcbuckhunter

Old Mossy Horns
Contributor
patience,,, working a few kinks, but will have a repeatable solution this winter (in between boondoggles),,, my first attempts I used to much power and jammed up my reloadable brass,,,

I am a fan of the old "Boy's Rifles" and cruise guns shops for them,,,, got this one from a fellow here in NC,,, it's a project on the stock but metal is awesome,,,

I have a 100 rounds of factory, but since they quit making it, that stuff's to valuable to actually shoot
The coolest rimfire I myself own is a 5mm Rem Mag. That’s one I wish I could stumble onto about 10,000 rounds for at about $0.10 a round….
 

Mr.Gadget

Old Mossy Horns
I only looked at it as something newer and something different.
When you have had a lot of the rest and still own a bunch then want to play.....

What is a person to do? Play with what is newer and different.

If one is to be a koolaid drinker it is to say there is no caliber this replaces everything.
I did not. I still have all my old guns and also use them. This is just another tool in the box. Not the only tool.


BTW. It is Creedmoor!
 
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woodmoose

Administrator
Staff member
Contributor
The coolest rimfire I myself own is a 5mm Rem Mag. That’s one I wish I could stumble onto about 10,000 rounds for at about $0.10 a round….

i kick myself on not buying those in the 70s and just holding them

same with CJ-8s in 83/84,,,should have bought a couple and put them up
 
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pcbuckhunter

Old Mossy Horns
Contributor
i kick myself on not buying those in the 70s and just holding them

same with CJ-8s in 83/84,,,should have bought a couple and put them up
I like the little 5mm. It was ahead of its time, much like the short fat 6.5 Rem Mag and .350 Rem Mag…. Anyway

The 5mm Rem Mag is superior to both the .17 HMR and the .22 WMR IMO. I was very happy to see Aguila/Centurion bring ammo back to the market.
 

surveyor

Twelve Pointer
I'll tell you what guys, with regards to accuracy and killing power, I'm shooting a 7.62x63mm that is an azz stomper.
 

kilerhamilton

Old Mossy Horns
I doubt anyone here can tell a difference. We’re talking about a lot of rounds down range at 800-1200yds to know a difference in real world ballistics. At 500yds I will compete with any gun on the market with a .223.
just kidding a 6mm dasher would be better but you get the drift.
we’re talking BC or the bullets ability to buck the wind at crazy range.
That’s where the 300wm with 190-200gn smk shine
 
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