New Homeowner HVAC troubles

DrSpeed

Eight Pointer
So I have been living in my first house now for a little over a year and just had the compressor in my outside heat pump go out. Had someone come to look at it and quote me for $2400 for the compressor install (an old r22 system), or $2800 for a new outdoor 410a trane unit matched to the old one's performance (~14SEER, ~8.2HSPF). The compressor repair number seems a bit high, but given the "obsoleteness" of r22, I sort of expect it. I have only dealt with the lighter side of refrigeration at work, (replacing relays & capacitors) and am a bit out of my depth.

I don't know if it's uncouth to talk about prices and such in the HVAC trade, but I can't find anything online about pricing for only heat pumps vs whole systems, non-matching systems, or even comparable unit prices. Everything seems to be locked out to dealers/technicians only.

Are there any HVAC tradesmen around here that can elaborate or sanity check on those numbers or fill me in on extra information I should know, or be asking questions about?
 

45/70 hunter

Old Mossy Horns
Contributor
Kind of a no brainer with only a $400 price difference. We used Comfort Monster three years ago for a new Trane system. Competitive pricing and great customer service.
 

bwfarms

Old Mossy Horns
When my compressor ‘goes out’ it’s usually a $14-15 capacitor. They are cheap, would be worth trying before replacing the unit.

Merely a suggestion without knowing what your serviceperson tested. Not saying the pro diagnosed it wrong but sometimes things are overlooked if you get my drift.
 

DrSpeed

Eight Pointer
When my compressor ‘goes out’ it’s usually a $14-15 capacitor. They are cheap, would be worth trying before replacing the unit.

Merely a suggestion without knowing what your serviceperson tested. Not saying the pro diagnosed it wrong but sometimes things are overlooked if you get my drift.
I tried a new capacitor before I called anyone, even with the old cap testing good. No luck. The motor in the compressor seized. The hvac guy tried to use a boost cap to unlock it with no luck. The unit is cheaper one and its 7 or 8 years old, so it isn't super surprising.
 

DrSpeed

Eight Pointer
Kind of a no brainer with only a $400 price difference. We used Comfort Monster three years ago for a new Trane system. Competitive pricing and great customer service.
I was feeling the same way, I just wanted to make sure. I have never been so in the dark about pricing for a big purchase before. I understand that installation is supposed to be "for the pros" but not listing any itemized pricing on websites across vendors just makes me feel like the price is whatever he says it is. Not a great feeling.
 

45/70 hunter

Old Mossy Horns
Contributor
Def price around. On a plus note..... ours was a 2001 unit, the new one dropped my power bills $50 month.
 

nchunter

Twelve Pointer
That’s probably not too far for my guy. I’ll text him the information and get you his number if you’re interested
 

nchunter

Twelve Pointer
I sent you a message with his number. He said he’d be happy to talk to you about it.
He replaced mine a few years ago, good guy.
 

Hunterreed

Twelve Pointer
Thanks for the help man. I'll reach out to him to see what he can do.
Hopefully nchunters HVAC guy will do you better on pricing. That quote of $2400 for a residential compressor change is steep. Assuming you have a single speed,single phase compressor and switching refrigerant to a R22 replacement that's way cheaper than R22 that's some serious labor pricing for a few hours of work. Like $400 an hour if he's really slow
 

Newsome Road

Ten Pointer
I don't work on hvac, but I contract a lot of it out at work. The only thing that I can add to this conversation is that it's likely you can't find pricing because it's changing almost daily right now. When we get quotes, some of them are only good for ten days now, when they used to be good for 90.

There's also a ton of delays for them getting equipment. I recently ordered a new unit. Took 8 weeks for the company to get their hands on it. When it arrived, they came out to do the install. When they got on site, a bracket was missing and we were down another two weeks. The HVAC world seems to be chaos right now.
 

Hunterreed

Twelve Pointer
I don't work on hvac, but I contract a lot of it out at work. The only thing that I can add to this conversation is that it's likely you can't find pricing because it's changing almost daily right now. When we get quotes, some of them are only good for ten days now, when they used to be good for 90.

There's also a ton of delays for them getting equipment. I recently ordered a new unit. Took 8 weeks for the company to get their hands on it. When it arrived, they came out to do the install. When they got on site, a bracket was missing and we were down another two weeks. The HVAC world seems to be chaos right now.
I'm out of the HVAC business now thank the lord. I have been hearing of shortages and delays. Most of my customers were word of mouth people I knew personally and would loose a lot of sleep knowing they were having to be without for weeks. There will be high demand for space heaters this winter
 

GobblinNC

Four Pointer
I wouldn't suggest replacing the outdoor unit only with a 410A system without changing the indoor unit to a system compatible with 410A as well. At a minimum the existing refrigerant lines should be flushed if replacement is not a viable option.
 

DrSpeed

Eight Pointer
Hopefully nchunters HVAC guy will do you better on pricing. That quote of $2400 for a residential compressor change is steep. Assuming you have a single speed,single phase compressor and switching refrigerant to a R22 replacement that's way cheaper than R22 that's some serious labor pricing for a few hours of work. Like $400 an hour if he's really slow
That's what I what I was thinking at first too, I haven't done the work, but I have ordered a compressor in the past and I checked prices. If the compressor <$1k there is a decent discrepancy. Now that we have called around I have more questions than answers.

I wouldn't suggest replacing the outdoor unit only with a 410A system without changing the indoor unit to a system compatible with 410A as well. At a minimum the existing refrigerant lines should be flushed if replacement is not a viable option.
We called nchunters HVAC guy and a 3rd party company and they both said the same and had some concerns. The initial guy said the indoor system was compatible with 410A, and we knew the indoor and outdoor were different when we bought the house. And he has had eyes on the system(s) and the other two haven't.

The 3rd party in coming over today to take a look, and nchunter's guy is making it over Monday. This has become quite the ordeal.
 

pattersonj11

Old Mossy Horns
Contributor
When it comes to houses and vehicles....find you some reliable go to people that get it done and get it right. I quit price checking years ago because saving even $1000 doesn’t help you if the cheap guy does cheap work. If you find a good cheap guy....put him in the phone book lol. There are also expensive guys that do crap work.
 

ellwoodjake

Twelve Pointer
No way would I replace with a 410a outdoor unit and not replace the line set and at least the A coil. 410a operates at a higher pressure than r22. Even if everything is compatible, it's never held that kind of pressure before. Will it hold now? Kind of like putting a 30 psi cap on your radiator, It is rated for it, but do you feel lucky? Well do you punk?
 

Hunterreed

Twelve Pointer
That compressor quote is high so to make you lean towards replacing the whole unit because its easier than a compressor swap. Most manufacturers will require the air handler and or coil to be a matching model with outdoor equipment to provide warranty. It's hard to get around that nowadays being most manufacturers require the homeowner to send in a warranty registration card with both sections model and serial numbers recorded at the time of installation
 

mhodge88

Button Buck
Cost of compressor plus refrigerant that depending on age/brand/size of unit can get kinda steep so I’d say it’s about average, parts warranty is where your gonna loose out if your investment goes sideways cause that refrigerant isn’t covered and will likely have to be completely refilled if compressor fails under warranty. In no way replace compressor without replacing the evaporator coil and flushing the line set. Different oils aren’t friends and they will eat that compressor pretty quick. Sure it’ll sound and work normal for a while, but then in WONT. You’ll know if your home when it happens. My opinion go new, repairs that are that high are a pain in the ass for everyone involved and your money will be best spent gaining some efficiency and having everything starting out on a fresh slate. A failed compressor is a sign of problems and most don’t fail on there own.
 

DrSpeed

Eight Pointer
So, an Update. nchunter's HVAC guy couldn't come out because of some things came up outside of work.
We have quoted two other companies and no one wants to touch it without replacing the whole system. Got several quotes back for $8.5k-13k for whole system+install depending on SEER ratings and such. That seems kind of steep still, but I guess I'll pay if that's the going rate. I can't help to feel like I'm being a bit shanghaied. Is this what HVAC service costs now?
 

Eric Revo

Old Mossy Horns
Contributor
Don't let them talk you into anything more than a 14 SEER rated unit, above that they go to multi speed compressors and ramped systems that don't do much more than make things much more complicated and hardly save any energy. I had a complete system (3 1/2 ton Trane 14 SEER) less than 2 years ago for right at $5k, it's been ok but there's a lot I don't like about it.
Look at the higher end Goodman and even Bryant if you want to save money on the front end, they have decent warranties and aren't pushed by a lot of companies that make money on the far end from maintenance contracts, ect.
 

nchunter

Twelve Pointer
So, an Update. nchunter's HVAC guy couldn't come out because of some things came up outside of work.
We have quoted two other companies and no one wants to touch it without replacing the whole system. Got several quotes back for $8.5k-13k for whole system+install depending on SEER ratings and such. That seems kind of steep still, but I guess I'll pay if that's the going rate. I can't help to feel like I'm being a bit shanghaied. Is this what HVAC service costs now?
I haven’t talked to him lately, other than letting him know you’d be calling.
Those prices seem high to me, but I’m not a pro and don’t know how much/if things have gone up recently.
Hope you get it worked out.
 

DrSpeed

Eight Pointer
Don't let them talk you into anything more than a 14 SEER rated unit, above that they go to multi speed compressors and ramped systems that don't do much more than make things much more complicated and hardly save any energy. I had a complete system (3 1/2 ton Trane 14 SEER) less than 2 years ago for right at $5k, it's been ok but there's a lot I don't like about it.
Look at the higher end Goodman and even Bryant if you want to save money on the front end, they have decent warranties and aren't pushed by a lot of companies that make money on the far end from maintenance contracts, ect.
We were looking at maximum 15-16, only single or 2 stage, so no worries there. The issue seems to be the supply right now and being in the height of the season.
I haven’t talked to him lately, other than letting him know you’d be calling.
Those prices seem high to me, but I’m not a pro and don’t know how much/if things have gone up recently.
Hope you get it worked out.
He has been a good guy to deal with, no complaints. He had some major stuff come up the day before coming out to see it so it was going to be a decently long wait. But, after the phone call my wife got from one of the other companies, we might end up waiting out for him at this point. The kind of money everyone is talking about throwing around is ridiculous.
 

Hunterreed

Twelve Pointer
This really isn't going to help you unless you decide to continue getting quotes until you find the right HVAC company. I have been out of the business a few years but still know dealer wholesale prices and I never had the high volume dealer pricing that the larger companies had and for $8500 on a 3-4 ton 14 seer heat pump system change out I would have easily put $4500-$5000 of that in my pocket as profit for about 10 hours of onsite labor the day of installation. These prices are why there are so many HVAC companies out there the add on replacement market profit levels are double what is made in new construction. Trane makes their own compressors but other than that all equipment manufacturers use the same working parts as the next,all give same warranties so don't get stuck on branding to much. And you're good maxing out at 15-16 seer paying the extra for higher efficiency you will not get the difference paid for before life of the equipment is over
 

QBD2

Old Mossy Horns
I had our system replaced in June. Carrier 3.5 ton/16 seer, gas furnace and H/E, zone dampers and wifi thermostats.

We had quotes from 6.5K to 12k. It’s a pain trying to get apples to apples quotes, but at the end of the day just pick the company that’s actually gonna show up when you call em. That’s far more important than price these days…
 

mtnhunter280

Button Buck
So I have been living in my first house now for a little over a year and just had the compressor in my outside heat pump go out. Had someone come to look at it and quote me for $2400 for the compressor install (an old r22 system), or $2800 for a new outdoor 410a trane unit matched to the old one's performance (~14SEER, ~8.2HSPF). The compressor repair number seems a bit high, but given the "obsoleteness" of r22, I sort of expect it. I have only dealt with the lighter side of refrigeration at work, (replacing relays & capacitors) and am a bit out of my depth.

I don't know if it's uncouth to talk about prices and such in the HVAC trade, but I can't find anything online about pricing for only heat pumps vs whole systems, non-matching systems, or even comparable unit prices. Everything seems to be locked out to dealers/technicians only.

Are there any HVAC tradesmen around here that can elaborate or sanity check on those numbers or fill me in on extra information I should know, or be asking questions about?
Given the prices of R22 components now,new compressors are anywhere from $1100-$1500 for just the compressor,a new copper line set is over $250 and R22 sells for over $1000 a jug.A three ton unit could contain anywhere from 6-9 lbs of refrigerant that has to be replaced.With todays prices and if you can actually get the components just the components and the refrigerant will total over $2500 and that includes no labor.Anybody offering to do a charge out of a compressor and fill the system back to the correct charge and replace the line set for $2800 is working for free or quite possibly going in the hole at that price.
 
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snakeskinner

Twelve Pointer
I just replaced a Maytag refrigerator that was 26 years old. I am living on borrowed time cause my HVAC system has also been going 26 years with only needing a few caps. I'm not far from DrSpeed so I'm hoping to see how his experience goes.
 

DrSpeed

Eight Pointer
It went ok. Ended up going with 72 degrees because they gave us a 14 seer complete system (air handler was too old) for less than 8k, which was about starting everywhere else. And they had a middle ground financing option between all upfront and 10 year at 10% interest. Technically still waiting on a finishing part to come in, but it works for now and it doesn't stay on for nearly as long, which is nice.
 
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