Need some Clarification

[creekhobo]

Go here and zoom in on the property and click on it. It will tell you who owns it.

ArcGIS Web Application

mapf.maps.arcgis.com

 

[Dick]

At least get a lawyer pay whatever you need to, but don't just mail in the fine and be done with it. Most wildlife tickets are misdemeanors and that will be on your record forever. Let the lawyer work for you and get you the best possible outcome and hopefully you will learn from this

lawyers are useless. Biggest crooks in the country

 

[Buxndiverdux]

The landowner protection act says "specifically related only to hunting, fishing or trapping on POSTED land"
My son and I have been trapping along a creek for the past 5 weeks or so and yesterday I was met by the HOA vice president "Karen" handing me a letter that says I am not allowed to access the river from the street because it belongs to her HOA. I was given a citation by the game warden and he told me that any land in NC that you hunt on you need Landowner's Written Permission. The HOA wasnt posted, there were ZERO signs! As I'm reading this GS14-159.6 and 159-7 I read it as land that is POSTED. I would have never gone onto land that had posted signs on it....I'm not like that. I honestly thought it was town property,
Can anyone shed light on this for me? Has anyone else been through this?

I have a court date at the end of march.

Thanks guys!

Access the river..... You doing all your trapping from a canoe, yak, etc? Never stepping foot above the highwater mark, and accessing the river from a public right away, and launching within that right of way? If all of the above is correct, then you are fine, even if the land is posted.

If the road is private, then you are technically trespassing to get to the river. If the land isn't posted, then local laws would determine if you need written permission or not. Here in my home county, written permission is not required on land that isn't posted. Matter of fact, even if it is posted, it has to be posted to the letter of the law for the "trespassing" to hold up in court. Been there, done that.

 

[30/06]

I love onX but be careful, it can get you into trouble as well as keep you out! It is way off on my KY lease, at least by what the landowners told me and showed me. A whole field looks to be on us but is the neighbors. There is also a 7 acre piece we have that is not shown on OnX as owned by our landowner.

 

[Vannoyboy]

I would probably retain legal counsel and ask for new certified survey's of the property in question and if it is close to other borders also get, fresh surveys from adjoining land owners. Then I would ask my attorney to postpone and delay any proceeding as long as the law allows. If Karen is this concerned, I would make sure she gets her money's worth. It might cost you a little but it might also deter others from being harassed by Karen.

 

[jcannon]

lawyers are useless. Biggest crooks in the country

Until you need one

 

[lasttombstone]

I am still trying to figure out exactly how this is happening. It looks to me like there is a lot of undeveloped/unsold lots in that subdivision mainly on the east side running northwest. Is the river behind these lots? If so, the property lines as shown on the GIS site are drawn crossing the waterway. It is hard to see much on the GIS as it appears there are heavy trees along what I am seeing as a waterway. Tell me if I am wrong here. My guess is that you were accessing the waterway through the unsold lots adjacent to the water but coming in at the main entrance. It does not appear to be a gated community but obviously someone saw a vehicle they did not recognize and saw you and did some investigating on their own. Maybe, once you get this issue settled, you could contact the builder and seek his permission to trap. If there are indeed beavers working the properties it would behove them to have the pests removed as they will only make more of a mess on the properties they are trying to sell. Maybe all this is wrong and just speculation but only offering suggestions that may help.

 

[Ldsoldier]

Access the river..... You doing all your trapping from a canoe, yak, etc? Never stepping foot above the highwater mark, and accessing the river from a public right away, and launching within that right of way? If all of the above is correct, then you are fine, even if the land is posted.

If the road is private, then you are technically trespassing to get to the river. If the land isn't posted, then local laws would determine if you need written permission or not. Here in my home county, written permission is not required on land that isn't posted. Matter of fact, even if it is posted, it has to be posted to the letter of the law for the "trespassing" to hold up in court. Been there, done that.

Negative. Navigable water only applies to whatever is in the boat or not touching the bottom (e.g. boating, fishing, etc...). Traps are anchored to the ground underneath, which is owned by somebody. In order to set traps in NC you HAVE TO HAVE WRITTEN PERMISSION. Period. There are no exceptions.

 

[Ldsoldier]

I am still trying to figure out exactly how this is happening. It looks to me like there is a lot of undeveloped/unsold lots in that subdivision mainly on the east side running northwest. Is the river behind these lots? If so, the property lines as shown on the GIS site are drawn crossing the waterway. It is hard to see much on the GIS as it appears there are heavy trees along what I am seeing as a waterway. Tell me if I am wrong here. My guess is that you were accessing the waterway through the unsold lots adjacent to the water but coming in at the main entrance. It does not appear to be a gated community but obviously someone saw a vehicle they did not recognize and saw you and did some investigating on their own. Maybe, once you get this issue settled, you could contact the builder and seek his permission to trap. If there are indeed beavers working the properties it would behove them to have the pests removed as they will only make more of a mess on the properties they are trying to sell. Maybe all this is wrong and just speculation but only offering suggestions that may help.

This is the route I would go. If there are unsold lots they belong to the developer, not the HOA. I’ve never met a developer that didn’t like a free beaver trapper.

 

[YanceyGreenhorn]

This is the route I would go. If there are unsold lots they belong to the developer, not the HOA. I’ve never met a developer that didn’t like a free beaver trapper.

same goes for farmers, whether they’re raising crops or cattle and have beaver activity in water on their property. Also people trying to maintain/build roads near water. But this is more for the OP, I realize I’m preaching to the choir Charlie

 

[Voodoo]

Negative. Navigable water only applies to whatever is in the boat or not touching the bottom (e.g. boating, fishing, etc...). Traps are anchored to the ground underneath, which is owned by somebody. In order to set traps in NC you HAVE TO HAVE WRITTEN PERMISSION. Period. There are no exceptions.

Hmm, my understanding is that is only true in some states. In NC, the property owner does not own the ground beneath the navigable waterway. However, in most western states they do. Maybe someone knows better than I.


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[beard&bow]

Hmm, my understanding is that is only true in some states. In NC, the property owner does not own the ground beneath the navigable waterway. However, in most western states they do. Maybe someone knows better than I.


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Depends on what you're referring to as "navigable", as this and other water terms get tossed around. Here in the mountains, the land owner of "river property" most certainly DOES own to the center of the river.

The rivers aren't "navigable" by large boats, so they're considered non-navigable. But they can be navigated by canoes, kayaks, and the like.

I believe this is where some get confused.

ETA: https://www.thedataadvocate.com/riparian-rights-vs-littoral-rights/

 

[DBCooper]

I would probably retain legal counsel and ask for new certified survey's of the property in question and if it is close to other borders also get, fresh surveys from adjoining land owners. Then I would ask my attorney to postpone and delay any proceeding as long as the law allows. If Karen is this concerned, I would make sure she gets her money's worth. It might cost you a little but it might also deter others from being harassed by Karen.

Or, you could just find somewhere else to trap

 

[Ldsoldier]

Hmm, my understanding is that is only true in some states. In NC, the property owner does not own the ground beneath the navigable waterway. However, in most western states they do. Maybe someone knows better than I.


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You’re probably right on the big rivers like the Cape Fear or Neuse in the coastal plain, but anywhere you can actually set a trap you’re going to be anchoring it to someone’s property, so.....

 

[Buxndiverdux]

Negative. Navigable water only applies to whatever is in the boat or not touching the bottom (e.g. boating, fishing, etc...). Traps are anchored to the ground underneath, which is owned by somebody. In order to set traps in NC you HAVE TO HAVE WRITTEN PERMISSION. Period. There are no exceptions.

So anchoring a boat is tresspassing?
10-4 on trapping with written permission. Forgot about that one.

 

[Ldsoldier]

So anchoring a boat is tresspassing?
10-4 on trapping with written permission. Forgot about that one.

Anchoring a boat is unlikely to pass the judge’s sniff test, but a trap that’s anchored to the ground for the specific purpose of it being there multiple days will definitely get you a ticket. Also, the boat anchor is just on the ground, not in it.

 

[Ncgundogs]

You will find this is actually a legal forum for guys that hunt

 

[woodmoose]

You will find this is actually a legal forum for guys that hunt

Winner of “ Best Post of the WeeK” right here,,,,,

 

[hunter]

You will find this is actually a legal forum for guys that hunt

Right up there with the old proverbs: "A Man Who Is His Own Lawyer Has A Fool for a Client!" and “The doctor who treats himself has a fool for a patient!"

Lot of fun reading the opinions on here and some are spot on but I would use what I learn on here to inform what I ask the person who would actually write the ticket rather than risk it!

 

[flathead977]

You will find this is actually a legal forum for guys that hunt

Apparently, we have lawyers, infectious disease experts, and constitutional scholars also on here.

 

[Mack in N.C.]

Negative. Navigable water only applies to whatever is in the boat or not touching the bottom (e.g. boating, fishing, etc...). Traps are anchored to the ground underneath, which is owned by somebody. In order to set traps in NC you HAVE TO HAVE WRITTEN PERMISSION. Period. There are no exceptions.

Not all river bottoms are owned by private individuals.......in fact most are not in nc. my family had 2 tracts on the haw and the lines stop at the river as did the creek that entered upstream of the northern property.
some cape fear properties go to the middle but a lot of NC river do not. you need to check but it is not 100 percent this or that.

 

[btsharky]

Apparently, we have lawyers, infectious disease experts, and constitutional scholars also on here.

And a LOT of people who have never broken a law themselves!!

 

[dpc]

Apparently, we have lawyers, infectious disease experts, and constitutional scholars also on here.

Don’t forget the sports handicappers

 

[Ldsoldier]

Not all river bottoms are owned by private individuals.......in fact most are not in nc. my family had 2 tracts on the haw and the lines stop at the river as did the creek that entered upstream of the northern property.
some cape fear properties go to the middle but a lot of NC river do not. you need to check but it is not 100 percent this or that.

Like I said before, most anything you can actually trap is going to be privately owned unless it’s going through public land.

 

[DeerManager]

Permission should be obtained even if the property has no markings or is improperly marked to let a individual know the property is posted. Improper marking and/or not being marked at all does not give a person legal access to the land. The mindset of " well it is not posted" gives us,hunters, a bad representation. I explain it like this: if it was your land and someone didn't gain your permission to access your land ask yourself, how would you feel.

 

[DeerManager]

He's right. Forsyth County doesn't have a local written permission law.

Local Laws by County: A-H | eRegulations

Some local county-by-county legislation also pertains to hunting, inland fishing and trapping activities in North Carolina. Following is a county-by-county listing of acts that might not violate the general laws and regulations, but that are prohibited by local legislation passed by the General...

www.eregulations.com

There is that mindset.

 

[Vannoyboy]

I do not hunt or trap on someone else's property. I know where every stob is on my own. If I found out I had to stray on someone else's property I would apologize , seek permission or move along.. If the first thing someone does is call the law, it will make for friction between neighbors. Most people in the mountains can handle issues on site. My daddy use to say "work smarter, not harder"
From that I have a philosophy . " A sniper has better odds than a gunslinger" . People need to simmer down, reel it in, and quit measuring the distance you can spray your urine. Life is short, enjoy it, obey the rules, live better and longer minding your own business.

 

[turkeyfoot]

To the original posters topic " I need some clarification" well you sure came to wrong place after 3 pages I'd bout guess your more confused than ever

 

[Mack in N.C.]

Like I said before, most anything you can actually trap is going to be privately owned unless it’s going through public land.

I am just saying that most river bottoms in nc especially in central and eastern nc are not privately owned. Everyone does need to have permission or access at a public row or ramp.

 

[JONOV]

So you are in the, if it ain’t posted it’s public boat too?


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"If it isn't posted it's public" isn't the same as "if it isn't posted it isn't a violation of the law." My driveway and front porch are private but I can't very well call the police on the Jehova's Witnesses for walking up it and ringing my doorbell unless I've told them not to.

It sounds like he was parking and hopping down a bank to a public creek.

Like I said before, most anything you can actually trap is going to be privately owned unless it’s going through public land.

It's not that simple. THe dirt under the water is considered public trust if you can float a boat in it. Typically the high water mark is the boundary. https://www.invtitle.com/docs/newsletters/nc/connection201506.pdf