NC turkey season changes proposed

turkeyfoot

Old Mossy Horns
To say NC is booming is misleading IMO.

The late-blooming east is booming. Turkey hunter numbers are booming.

But everywhere I hunt has seen a steady decline in turkey numbers over the past 15 years. And enough people are seeing the same decline that it is alarming - not to mention the alarming declines all across the country.
Absolutely numbers have dropped in piedmont and west NC the east props up those high harvest but this is how it was supposed go plenty data over time from earlier restoration states to show we are on track to many of them. But there is not an alarming decline across the whole country matter fact there are pile states on major upswing some newcomers some that were in trouble not long ago. Missouri is prime example they are seriously on upswing 43 grand and change with that expected to increase over next 2 years they had real shot at 50 thousand In 26 but this flooding might lower that some. Mississippi is another that was in trouble now they are flying high beating Alabama especially considering bama has 2 million more acres of land. Pont being just off top my head there are many states doing great unfortunately SC and GA are not in that group close to us but no shortage of high population bird states close
 

turkeyfoot

Old Mossy Horns
no we will get behind changes that we think will benefit us and fits our biases.
While that's true for many your not giving enough credit to lots people that care about the birds whether it benefits them or not. I hang around lot hunters that would get behind any proven change to benefit the birds not everyone is out kill every bird they see and by any method they can I know double digit members just on this forum personally that fit what I'm saying. Look at the TN study you put up they took away 2 weeks their sesson and pushed it back in some areas then had majority hunter approval to do it still lots conservationists hunters out there just get bad wrap from the gotta get my pic on social media crowd at any cost to keep up with my buddies.
 

turkeyfoot

Old Mossy Horns
We can go on about this forever cherry picking this point and that point but this is way simpler than that. We asked for the research we got the research so why are we not following the findings it's that simple. No study has been done on this scale before and we now have states with varying changes made to regs Vs. no changes in same regions to compare the more years that go by more evidence will roll in. I'm sure it hurts the egos of few those that got their theories disproven but hey accept it and move on.
 

oldest school

Old Mossy Horns
I don’t want a split, but don’t want a third Saturday opening either.

We should all be pumped that Southeast NC turkey harvest is booming. Instead they want to punish all with the later opening.

If nothing else, this thread has thrown out several ideas before the hearing proposals. Their mind may already be made up though.
They have thought of every conceivable measure they could take. They are wise to start small. This is just a taste of what’s to come.
I’m pretty sure that western hunters are like Brer Rabbit on delaying the season. Ok Fox throw us in that briar patch.
So real outcry will be central and east
So many turkeys in the east a week matters little. They just happy everyone in the family can still get two tags.

They will listen and get everyone’s ideas and then use that feedback to justify the next round of changes.

But they will move the date and cut youth week. IMO.
 

oldest school

Old Mossy Horns
While that's true for many your not giving enough credit to lots people that care about the birds whether it benefits them or not. I hang around lot hunters that would get behind any proven change to benefit the birds not everyone is out kill every bird they see and by any method they can I know double digit members just on this forum personally that fit what I'm saying. Look at the TN study you put up they took away 2 weeks their sesson and pushed it back in some areas then had majority hunter approval to do it still lots conservationists hunters out there just get bad wrap from the gotta get my pic on social media crowd at any cost to keep up with my buddies.
Sorry but I don’t see this respect for the bird from enough hunters. Just use the bird to boost their ego or pocketbook many times both.
 

Winnie 70

Ten Pointer
I believe the week later opening date is a bad idea….should also ban methods of killing like fanning and hunting out of blinds. These are 2 methods that will probably never be banned but these methods kill way too many mature gobblers and ease of take is not turkey hunting. Studies have been shown the date change is not needed and hot weather hunting no one wants. Youth week should be first Saturday only and 15 and under age.
 

CutNRun

Ten Pointer
Contributor
So much truth people seem not understand so much this really ain't to benefit wildlife. This past mississippi vote is the most prime example you could ask for. They had a turkey stamp proposal in last stage had overwhelming support from hunters and biologists well they didn't pass it for no other reason than pure politics. The money was to be marked for turkeys was no brainer to pass. The head guys called it a absolute embarrassment and NC/SC deals with same crap. EVERYONE THAT BLINDLY FOLLOWS THESE RECCOMENDATIONS SHOULD READ THAT ARTICLE. you could get better understanding how politics/money plays role in all this
So, what we really need to do is extend the season & increase the limit on politicians. That might have a positive effect on a lot of things around here. We might actually get to keep more than one freaking flounder too.

Jim
 

turkeyfoot

Old Mossy Horns
So, what we really need to do is extend the season & increase the limit on politicians. That might have a positive effect on a lot of things around here. We might actually get to keep more than one freaking flounder too.

Jim
You are 100% correct if there was a way to remove politics I myself believe things would be better and smoother rd getting things in place. Good example is I've heard some mention a tirkey stamp well that's good idea except my understanding in NC the money would go into a general type fund and not all be used for benefit of the turkey to me that's plain stupidity I could be wrong on that if so correct me.
 

turkeyfoot

Old Mossy Horns
Sorry but I don’t see this respect for the bird from enough hunters. Just use the bird to boost their ego or pocketbook many times both.
You probably have exposure to more than me so I'll take your word on it I can only speak for the crowd I know and things I read I'll leave myself with some faith in turkey hunters out there. 8 do believe in my travels I find the more long time traditional states lean more that way than the newcomers again small sample but it's what 8ve found bama was a classic example no one I spoke to there in camp had any use for a fan or decoy type aides or for Sykes either but that's another can worms😁
 

Scrub

Twelve Pointer
Contributor
Looks like we now have the QDMA crowd dabbling in turkey season. Trying to get older, maturer class of turkeys to kill. A one year old Jake is a sexually mature bird so can’t be about getting those hens bred.
 

turkeyfoot

Old Mossy Horns
Looks like we now have the QDMA crowd dabbling in turkey season. Trying to get older, maturer class of turkeys to kill. A one year old Jake is a sexually mature bird so can’t be about getting those hens bred.
Actually no if the population had rely on jakes then there would really be an issue all kinds studies showing that. The 2 year old is the main player in the male turkey world that is your target goal get them to that age. Same with hens 2 and older are the ones raising the broods jennies if even do nest have very poor success.
 

wolfman

Old Mossy Horns
Steve Windham

There was no opposition from the commissioners present at the meeting to these changes
I wrote a letter to Carolina Sportsman in 2008 opposing his views and they published it. *toots his own horn*

It was when he wanted "Friends and Family Afield Week" one week prior to the opener. Basically if you carried a kid with you, you could kill a turkey one week before the opener. I think that was his last attempt at moving the opener one week earlier.
 

turkeyfoot

Old Mossy Horns
I wrote a letter to Carolina Sportsman in 2008 opposing his views and they published it. *toots his own horn*

It was when he wanted "Friends and Family Afield Week" one week prior to the opener. Basically if you carried a kid with you, you could kill a turkey one week before the opener. I think that was his last attempt at moving the opener one week earlier.
One thing for sure no shortage of idiot ideas out there.
 

oldest school

Old Mossy Horns
I wrote a letter to Carolina Sportsman in 2008 opposing his views and they published it. *toots his own horn*

It was when he wanted "Friends and Family Afield Week" one week prior to the opener. Basically if you carried a kid with you, you could kill a turkey one week before the opener. I think that was his last attempt at moving the opener one week earlier.
Good info - I thought it had to be the same cat when he weighed in on the link CRC posted.
 

oldest school

Old Mossy Horns
Looks like we now have the QDMA crowd dabbling in turkey season. Trying to get older, maturer class of turkeys to kill. A one year old Jake is a sexually mature bird so can’t be about getting those hens bred.
The "crowd" dabbling in turkey seasons make qdma groups look like spanky and our gang in comparison.
 

turkeyfoot

Old Mossy Horns
Couple more states bout ready declare record harvest years, other ones up 25 to 35% somebody better get out there and warn them turkeys ate about to disappear😉
 

turkeyfoot

Old Mossy Horns
give us details. which states?
For records as of now looks like Iowa, Minnesota, and I'd be surprised if illinois doesn't join them they wete gnats hair away last year. Not officiall yet but those 1st 2 are likely. As far as the bumps the list is long Ky backed up last years superb year, missouri again with better one ahead, Indiana backed up there record year with a excellent one, ohio up 35% from 22 beating last year remember they are 1 tag now so that number is deceiving coulda been like their old hay days of nearly 20K, West va last year highest in 5 years today last day no reason think big drop, Mississippi beat last years and again up more than 30% 2 in row from 22. Pa will be solid when complete. Tn has already bear last year 2 weeks to go, Wis will be solid, mich will be on uptick. There are more those are examples of why the turkeys aren't declining everywhere lots places on really nice upswing or staying strong. Those aren't including the states where winter plays big role across the US mild winter will have lots those places like upper northeast and Idaho Montana type areas looking good
 

oldest school

Old Mossy Horns
For records as of now looks like Iowa, Minnesota, and I'd be surprised if illinois doesn't join them they wete gnats hair away last year. Not officiall yet but those 1st 2 are likely. As far as the bumps the list is long Ky backed up last years superb year, missouri again with better one ahead, Indiana backed up there record year with a excellent one, ohio up 35% from 22 beating last year remember they are 1 tag now so that number is deceiving coulda been like their old hay days of nearly 20K, West va last year highest in 5 years today last day no reason think big drop, Mississippi beat last years and again up more than 30% 2 in row from 22. Pa will be solid when complete. Tn has already bear last year 2 weeks to go, Wis will be solid, mich will be on uptick. There are more those are examples of why the turkeys aren't declining everywhere lots places on really nice upswing or staying strong. Those aren't including the states where winter plays big role across the US mild winter will have lots those places like upper northeast and Idaho Montana type areas looking good
TN is making a fine argument for later openers. :) Wonder what their hunters are complaining about now?
Thanks for the info TF.
 

turkeyfoot

Old Mossy Horns
TN is making a fine argument for later openers. :) Wonder what their hunters are complaining about now?
Thanks for the info TF.
Actually no they just had poorest hatch in long time add that with states that did not change start dates having even better years the argument is the other direction. Plus of course the report recommends moving back early start. The evidence is beginning to be overwhelming that no need change start date there is another study already being done so far its said show same as TN.
 

Scrub

Twelve Pointer
Contributor
Actually no if the population had rely on jakes then there would really be an issue all kinds studies showing that. The 2 year old is the main player in the male turkey world that is your target goal get them to that age. Same with hens 2 and older are the ones raising the broods jennies if even do nest have very poor success.

How so? I’ve killed Jake’s that had rode so many hens they hardly had any beard or feathers on their chest late season.
 

turkeyfoot

Old Mossy Horns
How so? I’ve killed Jake’s that had rode so many hens they hardly had any beard or feathers on their chest late season.
You can look it up multiple studies have shown this with jakes from low testosterone to low sperm count. Plus it has also been disproven that is sign of breeding. Basically if we had rely on jakes there would be no season at all. If you can't get birds to live to be at least 2 the population would be nearly gone.
 

oldest school

Old Mossy Horns
Actually no they just had poorest hatch in long time add that with states that did not change start dates having even better years the argument is the other direction. Plus of course the report recommends moving back early start. The evidence is beginning to be overwhelming that no need change start date there is another study already being done so far its said show same as TN.
so you think we just need to move it to March since it dont make any difference?
 

turkeyfoot

Old Mossy Horns
so you think we just need to move it to March since it dont make any difference?
Of course not never said doesn't make any differencebut leaving it alone would be fine. If people want to ignore hard data that's up them but the info is there with minimal effort to see. we asked for research we got it not my fault if people don't like the results. When you have states side by side 1 moving start date other one didn't both with similar results that's just more info that can't be ignored. Bama and mississippi are fine comparison both very similar except bama is 2 million acres bigger but mississippi made no change and had the better year than one that made several changes. Also mississippi has had better hatch 3 years in row. Which is the ultimate goal gotta get em to live to kill em. If you take time dig in you'll find states with no change are actually doing better again hard to ignore.
 

hoyt85

Six Pointer
Of course not never said doesn't make any differencebut leaving it alone would be fine. If people want to ignore hard data that's up them but the info is there with minimal effort to see. we asked for research we got it not my fault if people don't like the results. When you have states side by side 1 moving start date other one didn't both with similar results that's just more info that can't be ignored. Bama and mississippi are fine comparison both very similar except bama is 2 million acres bigger but mississippi made no change and had the better year than one that made several changes. Also mississippi has had better hatch 3 years in row. Which is the ultimate goal gotta get em to live to kill em. If you take time dig in you'll find states with no change are actually doing better again hard to ignore.

Sooo.....who gets the credit? Ole mother nature herself or the dart throwers?
 

TomstoSwans486

Six Pointer
You know 2 hours north of Raleigh you can kill a turkey in the spring or fall, you can kill a hen in the fall, you can also use a rifle to kill a turkey.

My point in saying this is I don't think we need to ban blinds or fanning. I personally have never used a blind, never care to. But that's me, I know plenty of ADHD children and unhealthy bad knee old men who need them - and if that's their deal, go for it.

But if it really is about "protecting the population" I don't see why these would not help - and not hurt the hunting community in tandem:
- Youth day or weekend
- If you can legally drive, you are not a youth
- Double the OOSer license and charge to hunt on gamelands
- Move the season dates however biologist want, I don't care, I've had more turkeys strutting on camera this past week than all year. Plus I hate those really cold windy mornings anyway.
 
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