NC Landowners Alliance - anti-dog hunting group

RJ1

Ten Pointer
Bow hunters can also take advantage of hounds being used but in a different way than gun hunters,I belong to several dog clubs that have guys in it that all they do is bow hunt.All clubs have tracts of land that they really don't like to run for various reasons be it because of highways or other reasons.They get very good results in the latter part of the gun season by hunting these tracts that don't get run,if they dog hunt a big buck enough and don't kill him he is going to look for a nice quite place to hang out,I have seen big bear do the same thing if I dog him enough and don't take him he will completely change his travel patterns to avoid a location. I also know this is not happening everywhere.
 

All Pines

Eight Pointer
The vast majority of people who dog hunt don't understand bowhunting...probably have never been.

A common misconception is that shooting at a stressed out pressured deer with a bow and arrow is the same as shooting at one that has been left alone.

Broad brushes paint both ways my friend...btw, I've been on several dog hunts.
I agree with everything you said.

I’m also not familiar with any clubs that run during bow season
 

All Pines

Eight Pointer
Bow hunters can also take advantage of hounds being used but in a different way than gun hunters,I belong to several dog clubs that have guys in it that all they do is bow hunt.All clubs have tracts of land that they really don't like to run for various reasons be it because of highways or other reasons.They get very good results in the latter part of the gun season by hunting these tracts that don't get run,if they dog hunt a big buck enough and don't kill him he is going to look for a nice quite place to hang out,I have seen big bear do the same thing if I dog him enough and don't take him he will completely change his travel patterns to avoid a location. I also know this is not happening everywhere.
100% correct
 

Newsome Road

Ten Pointer
Bow hunters can also take advantage of hounds being used but in a different way than gun hunters,I belong to several dog clubs that have guys in it that all they do is bow hunt.All clubs have tracts of land that they really don't like to run for various reasons be it because of highways or other reasons.They get very good results in the latter part of the gun season by hunting these tracts that don't get run,if they dog hunt a big buck enough and don't kill him he is going to look for a nice quite place to hang out,I have seen big bear do the same thing if I dog him enough and don't take him he will completely change his travel patterns to avoid a location. I also know this is not happening everywhere.
Sounds great, but you apparently haven't been reading my posts. Your dogs on YOUR land don't bother me. I try hard to keep pressure down on my land so that it is that "quiet little spot" you speak of. Unfortunately, your dogs are on my place as often as they are on yours.
 

All Pines

Eight Pointer
You’re doing exactly what the liberals want you to do...you’re dividing hunters

Play the long-term game, my friend...an occasional dog on your property is a lot better than many of the alternatives
 

Southern

Eight Pointer
I was accused of fear mongering in this thread. What I keep hearing is that if the still hunters dont quit griping, the liberals are going to take hunting away from us. Hmmmmm
 

Southern

Eight Pointer
Just interesting to me that the mentality is the impacted parties have to accept something that somebody else is causing.
 

DRS

Old Mossy Horns
I will just say this, as nccatfisher stated there is plenty of research some on the effect of hunting deer with dogs in relation to their home ranges . Dog hunting does not cause deer to change their home ranges. I have still.hunted in dog country my entire life, never had any issues. Maybe I didn't blame not seeing deer on the dogs and learned to hunt them where they were at. I say this again I will do everything in my power to keep my hounds away from where they are not wanted. The tone works, but the hound must be able to hear me. My policy if this happens is to try to get up wind and call them out. Prime time I will not call. Kind of a catch 22, I call I can get my hound away from where it is not wanted, but then I may distrub someone even more. I love to dog hunt and even drive, 1.5 hours or 70 miles from where I can dog hunt to hunt in larger tracts.
 

DRS

Old Mossy Horns
Just interesting to me that the mentality is the impacted parties have to accept something that somebody else is causing.
Kinda like driving hours East to hunt then complain about dogs, because some realtor or land broker said they have a nice 30 acres for still hunting. However, forgot to mention the surrounding 3000 acres are dog hunted. Point is I will travel to dog hunt, if you really hate dogs it would be just as easy to travel in a different direction.
 

Southern

Eight Pointer
Again, you are putting the responsibility on me when it is not something that Inam causing. What if I already own land down east? What if I inherited land down east? Why blame a realtor?
 

DRS

Old Mossy Horns
Again, you are putting the responsibility on me when it is not something that Inam causing. What if I already own land down east? What if I inherited land down east? Why blame a realtor?
And you say you don't have any financial interest in hunting. Not seeing where being truthful to clients, to make a dollar, if you don't see a problem with that then yes you are part of the problem. Sale the land and go elsewhere. Same reason many people travel to hunt with dogs. Say I already own land, well what if I own land where dog hunting is not legal, why should I not be able to? Maybe, because others said deal with it.
 

RJ1

Ten Pointer
Sounds great, but you apparently haven't been reading my posts. Your dogs on YOUR land don't bother me. I try hard to keep pressure down on my land so that it is that "quiet little spot" you speak of. Unfortunately, your dogs are on my place as often as they are on yours.

I have read and understood all your post,you don't want hounds on your land that's your choice and I would respect that.I made a blanket statement saying that bowhunters can use hounds running deer to their advantage at times.Since you seem to want to talk about my hounds and how I hunt them we can.First) when I come into an new area to hunt before I ever turn a hound out I try to talk to every landowner or lease holder bordering that area I try to do this face to face on the first meeting to get their feelings about my hounds getting on their land and I will check with them every year I hunt that area because things change. Second) I am there to run bear not deer however I do support deer doggers right to hunt deer with hounds as long as they do it the right way.Third) I have a traveling pack of 30 hounds I run 10 fresh hounds each day and before a hound goes into my traveling pack I have spent hours upon hours running and breaking that hound on my land to run only bear and to be completely collar broke does me no good to have a hound I can't control or one that runs unwanted game I will not tolerate either and as I explain to the landowners,lease holders that have a problem with my hounds getting on their land if by some reason they do which hasn't happened in the last 7 years that I know of but if it does if its a club I will pay them double what daily guest passes cost or if its the landowner,small lease holder and they think I upset their hunt by my hound being there I will pay them a fair price or they can come up to my place and hunt the 2000 acres I do not lease to clubs so family can hunt on it and kill all the deer they want on me and we have some really nice bucks on the farm and video footage to prove it. I will work with anyone that wants to work with me.
 
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nontypical

Six Pointer
I have read and understood all your post,you don't want hounds on your land that's your choice and I would respect that.I made a blanket statement saying that bowhunters can use hounds running deer to their advantage at times.Since you seem to want to talk about my hounds and how I hunt them we can.First) when I come into an new area to hunt before I ever turn a hound out I try to talk to every landowner or lease holder bordering that area I try to do this face to face on the first meeting to get their feelings about my hounds getting on their land and I will check with them every year I hunt that area because things change. Second) I am there to run bear not deer however I do support deer doggers right to hunt deer with hounds as long as they do it the right way.Third) I have a traveling pack of 30 hounds I run 10 fresh hounds each day and before a hound goes into my traveling pack I have spent hours upon hours running and breaking that hound on my land to run only bear and to be completely collar broke does me no good to have a hound I can't control or one that runs unwanted game I will not tolerate either and as I explain to the landowners,lease holders that have a problem with my hounds getting on their land if by some reason they do which hasn't happened in the last 7 years that I know of but if it does if its a club I will pay them double what daily guest passes cost or if its the landowner,small lease holder and they think I upset their hunt by my hound being there I will pay them a fair price or they can come up to my place and hunt the 2000 acres I do not lease to clubs so family can hunt on it and kill all the deer they want on me and we have some really nice bucks on the farm and video footage to prove it. I will work with anyone that wants to work with me.
You sir are a great role model for other dog hunters to follow. Can I hunt the family farm anyways 🙏
 

Southern

Eight Pointer
And you say you don't have any financial interest in hunting. Not seeing where being truthful to clients, to make a dollar, if you don't see a problem with that then yes you are part of the problem. Sale the land and go elsewhere. Same reason many people travel to hunt with dogs. Say I already own land, well what if I own land where dog hunting is not legal, why should I not be able to? Maybe, because others said deal with it.

Let me set the record straight even thought I don't owe anybody here an explanation. I have not made a penny from brokering properties in over 2 years. I retired from that aspect of the business 2 years ago, so other than long term investing, I have zero to gain financially from any of this nonsense. I also resent the fact that you are implying that I an not truthful to my clients, You dont even know me or how I operate. You have no foundation at all to assume that I would ever be "a part of the problem" or that I would not be honest with my clients.

Second, using your logic, any broker selling anything in eastern NC would have to disclose that dogs are being run around them and could potentially run on their property or otherwise be considered a dishonest broker. I am sure that alot of brokers would resent that as well. Your statement is nonsensical asshattery at it's finest.

I think you all are losing sight that what is the issue is not dog hunting in general, but the ability ( an in many cases, the unwillingness to even try) to keep dogs off of private owned land, owned by those who do not want that intrusion. All I hear once again, is blame towards the affected parties and NO acceptance of the fact that there are ALOT of disgruntled land owners in North Carolina who are going to continue to work towards the only resolve to this problem that they can grasp, which is unfortunately, outlawing it.
 

boomer

Twelve Pointer
As a dog man and as a property owner I have stayed out of this debate as long as I could. Between me, my wife, my parents and my brother , my family owns land in 2 states, NC and Tennessee. Trust me a damn hound on the property is the least of our worries. The land in NC is in 3 dog counties and in 2 non dog counties and deer dogs aren't allowed in East Tennessee. All properties are gated and properly posted. Some are leased , some are family hunting spots. Our issues over the last 30+ years has been #1. Trespassing , #2 trash dumping, #3 4x4 joy riders,horseback riding & atvs, #4 thieves , #5 pot growers and other drug related activities , # 6 people dumping stray or unwanted pets, #7 vandals. We ( the family ) have all had hunts disrupted by the above activities in some way. Yes , we have had hounds run across our land, deer dogs, rabbit dogs ,coon dogs ,even a bear dog or 2 , and pets. The best race I ever heard was a Springer spaniel running a doe, barking every breath. It kept me on the edge of my stand for an hour. I final killed the deer and caught the dog. Called the owner , tried to buy it , he would not sell it. He was bird hunting nearby property , when the dog jumped a deer and was gone. Again one of the best still hunts I ever had. As a property owner I am glad your biggest worry is a hound coming in to your land. I would gladly trade with you so you can have something to really be concerned about.
 

FITZH2O

Ten Pointer
The vast majority of people who dog hunt don't understand bowhunting...probably have never been.

A common misconception is that shooting at a stressed out pressured deer with a bow and arrow is the same as shooting at one that has been left alone.

Broad brushes paint both ways my friend...btw, I've been on several dog hunts.
Pretentious bow hunters do more to divide hunters in this country than any rogue dog club or anti group ever will.

BTW I’ve been on several bow hunts lol
 

Newsome Road

Ten Pointer
I have read and understood all your post,you don't want hounds on your land that's your choice and I would respect that.I made a blanket statement saying that bowhunters can use hounds running deer to their advantage at times.Since you seem to want to talk about my hounds and how I hunt them we can.First) when I come into an new area to hunt before I ever turn a hound out I try to talk to every landowner or lease holder bordering that area I try to do this face to face on the first meeting to get their feelings about my hounds getting on their land and I will check with them every year I hunt that area because things change. Second) I am there to run bear not deer however I do support deer doggers right to hunt deer with hounds as long as they do it the right way.Third) I have a traveling pack of 30 hounds I run 10 fresh hounds each day and before a hound goes into my traveling pack I have spent hours upon hours running and breaking that hound on my land to run only bear and to be completely collar broke does me no good to have a hound I can't control or one that runs unwanted game I will not tolerate either and as I explain to the landowners,lease holders that have a problem with my hounds getting on their land if by some reason they do which hasn't happened in the last 7 years that I know of but if it does if its a club I will pay them double what daily guest passes cost or if its the landowner,small lease holder and they think I upset their hunt by my hound being there I will pay them a fair price or they can come up to my place and hunt the 2000 acres I do not lease to clubs so family can hunt on it and kill all the deer they want on me and we have some really nice bucks on the farm and video footage to prove it. I will work with anyone that wants to work with me.
First off, you clearly took the "you" in my post personally, and it wasn't meant that way, it was meant as a generality. I've read enough of your posts to know how you hunt. If we had bear,you'd have an open invitation to my place. We typically try to have some guys bring their rabbit dogs around every year. I just talked to a guy the other day about some places on my land he could run his coon dogs. I raise quails, and there are several guys that come over, get a couple birds, and work with their dogs on my land. I am NOT against hunting with hounds. There just happens to be one type of hound hunting that can't seem to respect other people's property, at least adjacent to all the tracts I hunt. I will not be sad to see it go. As its phasing out, I'll happily lobby for the rest of you.
 

RJ1

Ten Pointer
First off, you clearly took the "you" in my post personally, and it wasn't meant that way, it was meant as a generality. I've read enough of your posts to know how you hunt. If we had bear,you'd have an open invitation to my place. We typically try to have some guys bring their rabbit dogs around every year. I just talked to a guy the other day about some places on my land he could run his coon dogs. I raise quails, and there are several guys that come over, get a couple birds, and work with their dogs on my land. I am NOT against hunting with hounds. There just happens to be one type of hound hunting that can't seem to respect other people's property, at least adjacent to all the tracts I hunt. I will not be sad to see it go. As its phasing out, I'll happily lobby for the rest of you.

Sorry if I mistook the meaning of your post.:)
 

DRS

Old Mossy Horns
First off, you clearly took the "you" in my post personally, and it wasn't meant that way, it was meant as a generality. I've read enough of your posts to know how you hunt. If we had bear,you'd have an open invitation to my place. We typically try to have some guys bring their rabbit dogs around every year. I just talked to a guy the other day about some places on my land he could run his coon dogs. I raise quails, and there are several guys that come over, get a couple birds, and work with their dogs on my land. I am NOT against hunting with hounds. There just happens to be one type of hound hunting that can't seem to respect other people's property, at least adjacent to all the tracts I hunt. I will not be sad to see it go. As its phasing out, I'll happily lobby for the rest of you.
Anytime a person hunts with any dog there is a chance the dog gets away and crosses property lines. I do as a hound hunter for deer advocate controlling the hounds and there are many more like me. There are also rogues, that I do not condone their behavior. To create laws that do not allow for some incidence of dog trespass would be the same as banning hunting with hounds. The largest problem I have with dog trespass, is it started with legally pursued game that is not private property. I have picked up birddogs, rabbit dogs and coon hounds that all got away from their owners. Dog trespass laws cannot be for just deer dogs or even hunting dogs, all dogs and all other animals would have to be included. I support laws against hunter tresspass and turning hounds out on property without permission. I support written permission laws to hunt and fish, our county has had this for decades. The landowner don't even need to post the property in any manner. I advocate not hunting from any state road, ie no loaded weapon in possession, including in a vehicle. Exempting, concealed carry. I would even support minimum acreage, if I really thought that was the answer. Minimum acreage is not the answer though. It will not solve a thing and it would just take away the rights of a property owner to hunt their land the way they want. I can honestly say I can hunt tracts less than 100 acres and control and keep my hounds off any other persons land. It just takes the right layout. I could support a permit system, only if houndsmen are included and have control in the permit application and revocation process, while at the same time opening the entire state to deer hunting with dogs, with the exception of the most western counties, rugged mountains. The only place deer hunting with hounds has a negative impact on the deer herd. Yes, there has been research on this also.
 

Tipmoose

Administrator
Staff member
Contributor
Can someone explain to me why hunting deer with hounds is under more pressure than any other form of hunting?
  1. It has a bad reputation. Everyone who hunts near doggers has a story about it.
  2. A pack of dogs baying and running over your property is more noticeable than a lone trespasser with a bow.
  3. They often set up on right of ways and shoot down them at deer being run across them.
  4. They are more visible than other types of hunters.
  5. Rogue doggers and their dogs are more disruptive than rogue still hunters.
  6. It has very few defenders and the few it has are very vocal. When large numbers of hunters want dogging curtailed, regulated or banned, that tells everyone else that there's a problem.
 

DRS

Old Mossy Horns
Can someone explain to me why hunting deer with hounds is under more pressure than any other form of hunting?
Everybody trophy hunting. Growing their deer on a few hundred acres or less. Commercialization of deer hunting plain and simple. I can remember such a time when most people just hunted not worrying about how many inches of antler. Yes, we are more visible also. Same with most other things In life, people will remember a negative much more than a positive.
 

DRS

Old Mossy Horns
  1. It has a bad reputation. Everyone who hunts near doggers has a story about it.
  2. A pack of dogs baying and running over your property is more noticeable than a lone trespasser with a bow.
  3. They often set up on right of ways and shoot down them at deer being run across them.
  4. They are more visible than other types of hunters.
  5. Rogue doggers and their dogs are more disruptive than rogue still hunters.
  6. It has very few defenders and the few it has are very vocal. When large numbers of hunters want dogging curtailed, regulated or banned, that tells everyone else that there's a problem.
People telling others we always are trying to kill the deer when we are on the right of way, don't help and is not true. We have a lot of support from people that are willing to learn the truth. Still hunters like to say we use dogs to send the deer into a frenzy and shot to them fleeing the woods, nothing could be further from the truth. Those other poachers are killing the deer, while some are more worried about a dog ruining a hunt, more of a mental thing than an actual thing.
 

Newsome Road

Ten Pointer
Everybody trophy hunting. Growing their deer on a few hundred acres or less. Commercialization of deer hunting plain and simple. I can remember such a time when most people just hunted not worrying about how many inches of antler. Yes, we are more visible also. Same with most other things In life, people will remember a negative much more than a positive.
Thanks for the vague generalization. Instead of just throwing around the one term that garners a tiny bit of support from the non-dogging meat hunters, how about be a little more specific. Tip provided a detailed list. You simply said he was wrong, but made no effort to back that claim up.

If you really want to continue to do what you love, you need to get your head out of the sand. Go back and read Tips post again. Focus on the second sentence in #1. You can try to brush it off as "folks remember the negative", but it's hard to explain how EVERYONE around it has those negative examples, some can give you 10-15 per season.

You can scream your cherry picked studies until you're blue in the face, but if you don't figure out how to get every deer dogger on board with a plan to clean the mess up, there will be a day in my lifetime that it's illegal statewide.
 

DRS

Old Mossy Horns
Thanks for the vague generalization. Instead of just throwing around the one term that garners a tiny bit of support from the non-dogging meat hunters, how about be a little more specific. Tip provided a detailed list. You simply said he was wrong, but made no effort to back that claim up.

If you really want to continue to do what you love, you need to get your head out of the sand. Go back and read Tips post again. Focus on the second sentence in #1. You can try to brush it off as "folks remember the negative", but it's hard to explain how EVERYONE around it has those negative examples, some can give you 10-15 per season.

You can scream your cherry picked studies until you're blue in the face, but if you don't figure out how to get every deer dogger on board with a plan to clean the mess up, there will be a day in my lifetime that it's illegal statewide.
Vague Generalization the same as y'all give all deer dog hunters.

I would bet and I'm not a gambling man, if trophy deer where not on the top of that list, there would be much less conflict. Heck, I even hear hunters complain about the neighbors activities on their own land affecting the hunt.

The first thing I always hear is dog hunters are on the roads to kill the deer. Not true.

When a dog does get by, it is always intentional of casting a hound on another's land. I always here they turned out on our land again. Not true. Like I have said I have seen all dogs get away from there owners, not just deer hounds, pets included.

Not saying they aren't rogues out there, they are. There are also laws that would stop some of this. I would support Warren County to go to no hunting from the right of way, at the least if they didn't have written permission to hunt adjoining land. Warren County has a good law to help, register your land with the Sheriff Dept. they can write a ticket if someone is on the right of way with a firearm in or out of the vehicle. I support written permission laws, so you don't even have to post property for an LEO to ticket for trespass for the purpose of hunting or fishing.

I know I have taken people hunting with me that really had a bad view of dog hunting due other people describing what we are doing on the road and how deer dog hunting works. I have not had one single person not change their mind, my lady is one of these people and she rides with me nearly all the time. I will talk with landowners who have the negative experiences, got to know a many one for the majority I have even changed their minds and have a good relationship with them. Most people don't hate dog hunting for deer, and when we show respect they have a least a tolerance for us. Then there are the ones that just hate it or want something to hate, we will never change that persons thoughts of us.

Yes, we are visible, so we are the first one to be attacked. Most just want to turn a blind I to the issues with others. Gotta, blame somebody.

Why do you want to group us together? I don't assume you or any one else is a poacher because I have issues with them. I don't try to outlaw or support outlawing other forms of hunting due to these problems with others. I will say beware of throwing fellow hunters under the bus, because one day the antis will come knocking and you will not have them at your side.

As for the research it has not been cherry picked, it is just the research that has been done by wildlife professionals. Ruling out such scientific data is not making a wise decision, if you want to make decisions with what we know and not on feelings or assumptions.
 

DRS

Old Mossy Horns
you must be older than the earth then,,,,,folks have always oohh'd and aaww'd over big bucks
True, but it was not something they needed to be successful or have a good hunt. More of the days when the social aspect of hunting was an important part of the experience. Something still alive and well with dog hunting. Not the selfish one of many trophy hunters, with the my deer concept.
 
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