NC Landowners Alliance - anti-dog hunting group

Southern

Eight Pointer
My solution was one of the permit system. I was in the group that was asked by NCWRC to offer a solution. When we offered it, they didnt even consider it. I WILL NOT settle down when blatant lies are being told about anything. The problems with hounds are legitimate in MOST cases, there are laws already in place to prevent that and it shows the lack of ENFORCEMENT. Trust me, 99% of houndsmen do not want their hounds where they are not allowed. We spend too much time and money for that to take place. Mr Southern tell us your name sir, You know mine. Open dialog is key to any resolve.
I cant have open dialogue with somebody who makes up stuff about me.
"Im not a dumb knuckle dragging redneck as you like to call us.
You use some of that fancy documentation you have to prove where I called you that then we can talk.

It's been fun guys but time to go back to work so I can buy more land to listen to the dogs on. And Tipmoose, thanks(y)
 

ncdeerhunterRC

Four Pointer
I would accept either a permit system or acreage requirements. As I said before, houndsmen had better get in front of this as best they can and carve out whatever protections they can. Of course it all depends on enforcement. If they continue to enforce dogging laws like they have, nobody will buy a permit or abide by a ban.
Enforcement is an issue. The laws we already have can't be enforced. If a ban or permit system is in place, the rogues will continue to do as they please while that follow the law will do what we supposed to.
 

Tipmoose

Administrator
Staff member
Contributor
Enforcement is an issue. The laws we already have can't be enforced. If a ban or permit system is in place, the rogues will continue to do as they please while that follow the law will do what we supposed to.
I agree with this completely. Its also why I would support all kinds of additional sources of income for ENFORCEMENT. Double or triple the number of wardens. I've hunted NC for 15 years now and not once have I been checked by a warden while deer hunting. I've been checked many times during dove and swan hunting...but never deer.
 

Newsome Road

Ten Pointer
I'm sorry that most of us don't buy the whole "1% are rogue" argument. I spend a a lot of time on 3 properties in 3 different counties. The smallest is around 200 acres and the biggest is around 2000. Every, and I mean EVERY weekend that I am at one of those properties during gun season, I deal with someone else's deer hounds on my property. And at two of those places, the dogs come from more than one club. So I have a hard time believing that I happen to hunt land beside the 1% in the state, and that you keep your deer hounds on your land all the time.
 

Downeast

Ten Pointer
I wouldn't have a problem with dog hunters running on my land if they would just ask. A few dog hunts during the season (say after the rut) would be fun. I recall years ago all the neighbors (all still hunters) would invite the local dog club to run on the last day. It was almost a tradition and everybody had a great time. Unfortunately the dog club lost their lease when the timber company broke up their lease and sold the land in parcels (sign of the times?). So there are options out there. Instead of complaining and being part of the "hunter vs hunter" mentality, talk with the local club and work something out. Tell them to lay off your land as much as possible and get together and have a organized hunt say the last week of the season as an example. A well organized dog hunt is really a lot of fun!

As a side note, I am now a deer shooter and don't hunt them anymore. I sit in a stand or blind and shoot the poor things when they step out into a path or field. No hunting involved. What irks me is the QDM crowd (Quality Deer Morons) who talk crap about everyone who doesn't shoot what they believe should be shot. They have created a lot of animosity between landowners, dog clubs, and the public. The DDC is a prime example of creating ill will among hunters. We all enjoy shooting nice bucks, but for the person who shoots his limit of legal spikes (either by the use of dogs or by still shooting) on property he controls should not be looked down upon by the QDM crowd. And QDM was never about large antlers but about maintaining a healthy population of deer within the carrying capacity of the land. But somewhere along the way it got twisted into some form of BC scoring, big $$ deer program with an elitist slant. And one of its first victims was the southern tradition of the local community coming together for fellowship and the simple enjoyment of hunting deer with dogs.
 

nchunt101

Ten Pointer
I cant have open dialogue with somebody who makes up stuff about me.
"Im not a dumb knuckle dragging redneck as you like to call us.
You use some of that fancy documentation you have to prove where I called you that then we can talk.

It's been fun guys but time to go back to work so I can buy more land to listen to the dogs on. And Tipmoose, thanks(y)
Quick question. Would you agree that trespassers of all types have a negative impact on private property owners? I live in Warren County and have had more hunts ruined by horseback riders and idiots walking their dogs. Still hunters have also proven to be more of an issue than doghunters. Btw I still hunt exclusively and would rather spend the day at the dentist than deer hunt with dogs.

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Southern

Eight Pointer
I can't answer that intelligently. I hunt big remote tracts. I have had exactly one trespasser in 30 years and that was last fall and was somebody riding into my land doing guess what? Looking for his damn hunting dogs.
I deal with dogs weekly, almost daily on several tracts. People have not been a problem.
 

nchunt101

Ten Pointer
I can't answer that intelligently. I hunt big remote tracts. I have had exactly one trespasser in 30 years and that was last fall and was somebody riding into my land doing guess what? Looking for his damn hunting dogs.
I deal with dogs weekly, almost daily on several tracts. People have not been a problem.
Respectfully, why not? Regardless of activity trespassing negativity affects landowners. I manage and maintain several large tracts in the county and still hunters,ATVs,and horseback riders have proven to cause more problems by far than dog hunters. Considering you have only had one trespasser over thirty years you should consider yourself fortunate. Simply enforcing existing laws would be easier and more effective than targeting a specific group of hunters.

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Southern

Eight Pointer
Respectfully, why not? Regardless of activity trespassing negativity affects landowners. I manage and maintain several large tracts and deal in the county and still hunters,ATVs,and horseback riders have proven to cause more problems by far than dog hunters. Considering you have only had one trespasser over thirty years you should consider yourself fortunate. Simply enforcing existing laws would be easier and more effective than targeting a specific group of hunters.

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[/

Why not what?
And yes I do consider myself very fortunate.
 

nchunt101

Ten Pointer
Why are you unable to answer my question intelligently? I simply asked if you agree that trespassing of all types impacts landowners negatively. At the end of the day the same laws are violated.

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Southern

Eight Pointer
Why are you unable to answer my question intelligently? I simply asked if you agree that trespassing of all types impacts landowners negatively. At the end of the day the same laws are violated.

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Because you asked for my opinion. I dont pull my opinions from thin air I base them on my actual experiences. I am 1000 to 1 dogs to people. Sorry I am not falling into your thesis like you wanted.
 

Southern

Eight Pointer
Because you asked for my opinion. I dont pull my opinions from thin air I base them on my actual experiences. I am 1000 to 1 dogs to people. Sorry I am not falling into your thesis like you wanted.
But no I dont condone tresspassing any more than any other disruptive activity.
 

nchunt101

Ten Pointer
Because you asked for my opinion. I dont pull my opinions from thin air I base them on my actual experiences. I am 1000 to 1 dogs to people. Sorry I am not falling into your thesis like you wanted.
My opinions are based upon issues I have dealt with---not thin air. You will not find a more staunch supporter of landowner rights than me.

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nchunt101

Ten Pointer
And maybe I read into your post as more of a comparison which is how I answered so sorry if that is not what you meant
No worries. I just feel that singling out an individual group does little to solve the overall problem of trespassing.

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Southern

Eight Pointer
My opinions are based upon issues I have dealt with---not thin air. You will not find a more staunch supporter of landowner rights than me.

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My opinions are based upon issues I have dealt with---not thin air. You will not find a more staunch supporter of landowner rights than me.

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I did not say anything to contradict this. The thin air was my explanation not and implication
 

Southern

Eight Pointer
No worries. I just feel that singling out an individual group does little to solve the overall problem of trespassing.

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I guess since this was a thread about dogs we were focused on that problem. But yes both issues are an infringement against private property rights in my opinion
 

DRS

Old Mossy Horns
I guess since this was a thread about dogs we were focused on that problem. But yes both issues are an infringement against private property rights in my opinion
I would agree, only if wildlife where private property. Like I stated before, when you can keep wildlife from having home ranges that cross property lines this issue can totally be avoided. This goes for dogs pursuing them and people retrieving wounded game alike. I do think dog handlers should do all they can to keep the hounds off others property. My experiences are that I have way more problems with poachers without dogs affecting my hunting properties than the dogs that get on there. The poacher may kill what they pursue, the hounds are less damaging if any at all, than the coyotes already there.
 

aya28ga

Old Mossy Horns
Contributor
This really is the bottom line. Money talks and BS walks. Up until now the money has been in the pockets of those who want things to remain the way they were back when NC was a red state and sparsely populated. Those pockets are increasingly being laid to rest and being replaced by those who do not share an appreciation for the old ways. Couple this with an enormous rise of people from out of state, including hunters who have never hunted with dogs and its pretty easy to see how this is going to go.

Its my opinion that doggers need to figure out what kind of reservation they want to live on and work to make that the best reservation they can get. Otherwise, they won't have a reservation at all.
Tipmoose's post is truly predicting the future of dog hunting in NC, (and maybe hunting in general).

Loss of available hunting land to population growth & development is the true threat; all of these arguments about still hunters vs doggers, trespassing, etc, all stem from that basic fact. All anyone has to do is look at the growth occurring now in the counties surrounding Wake. Southern Franklin county in particular is being covered in subdivisions, and Granville / Vance aren't far behind. Even outlying counties that are traditional dog hunting strongholds like Warren are beginning to feel the pressure as people who want to live near Raleigh but have a "gentleman farm" of 5 - 10 acres start moving in.

Eventually the numbers will reach a tipping point and the votes will be there to force changes, and county commissioners want to be re-elected; (they know how to count votes).

Maybe that's the answer: dog hunters banding together with the goal of petitioning the state to create a game land (or two) dedicated to dog hunting.......
 

nontypical

Six Pointer
I don’t have a problem with dog hunting on big tracts of land. Unfortunately most of my dealings with dog hunters has been with the outlaw clubs who have one little tract beside you and they wait till you leave after your morning hunt then dump the dogs out. Or they dump the dogs out on your property during the week while your at work. Bout like everything else in life,,, a few make it bad for the many.
 

Newsome Road

Ten Pointer
I would agree, only if wildlife where private property. Like I stated before, when you can keep wildlife from having home ranges that cross property lines this issue can totally be avoided. This goes for dogs pursuing them and people retrieving wounded game alike. I do think dog handlers should do all they can to keep the hounds off others property. My experiences are that I have way more problems with poachers without dogs affecting my hunting properties than the dogs that get on there. The poacher may kill what they pursue, the hounds are less damaging if any at all, than the coyotes already there.
It's not up to you to decide the impact your hounds have on my property. I personally believe that a pack of hounds sound worse than nails on a chalkboard. I still hunt for the peace and quiet and sounds of nature on sizable tracts of land. Your hound yipping all under me and its owner pulled in my path blowing the horn and hollering up his dog DIRECTLY affect my hunting.
 

nccatfisher

Old Mossy Horns
Contributor
It's not up to you to decide the impact your hounds have on my property. I personally believe that a pack of hounds sound worse than nails on a chalkboard. I still hunt for the peace and quiet and sounds of nature on sizable tracts of land. Your hound yipping all under me and its owner pulled in my path blowing the horn and hollering up his dog DIRECTLY affect my hunting.
I am pretty sure he was speaking in respect to the impact it has on the wildlife itself not the landowners. I may be wrong about that. But if he was there actually have been studies to back up his opinion on that so that was probably what he was going on.

Someone driving up your private path blowing their horn for the dogs is just a primitive outdated unacceptable way to conduct business. Using a tone button from the highway ROW yes, and to me that isn't a perfect scenario, but you don't enter someone's property on foot or in a vehicle without permission.
 

All Pines

Eight Pointer
The vast majority of people who don’t like/oppose dog hunting don’t understand it...probably have never been

A common misconception is that dogs running through your property will ruin your hunt.
 

nontypical

Six Pointer
The vast majority of people who don’t like/oppose dog hunting don’t understand it...probably have never been

A common misconception is that dogs running through your property will ruin your hunt.
So when I’m sitting in my stand watching deer and then someone elses deer hunting dogs come and run all the deer that I’m looking at off. Then I don’t see any more deer for the rest of the hunt and I drove an hour for the hunt, you don’t consider that ruined?

Keep in mind I have been dog hunting many times.
 

Southern

Eight Pointer
The vast majority of people who don’t like/oppose dog hunting don’t understand it...probably have never been

A common misconception is that dogs running through your property will ruin your hunt.
Well I was going to be done with this post but then I read this above statement and I guess I just could not help myself.

First, I think you would be surprised how many landowners in Eastern NC are like myself, started out dog hunting in the 70's then gradually decided they enjoyed still hunting more. To say most have never been is kind of hard to back up and not the case with most of my friends and acquaintances who own land in my region of the state.

Secondly, saying that deer dogs do not hurt a hunt is also pie in the sky, especially on small tracts. It seems like many times when dogs do show up, one or two decide to stay for the day and churn all day. Sure there may be a time when it benefits a landowner by bringing them a deer and sure there are times that deer do come out later but the tracts of mine that get run become void of deer after the dogs are there. With the lower population of deer now in many places, I think this is even more evident that it used to be.

I just don't see how you can make a blanket statement that it is a misconception that dogs running through your property will ruin your hunt. I know it will and so do many, many others I know who deal with this regularly.

Okay, I swear, I am done with this thread......for now:p
 

All Pines

Eight Pointer
When dogs are nearby, have you considered changing your tactics ( much like you would with a shift in weather)? My family farm is small and we’re adjacent to a dog club. Having an open mind and responding accordingly has given some of our best hunts.

Also, the dogs will become the deer’s primary focus, which is a huge advantage.

And, dog hunters run tracts (big and small) for many hours bc the deer don’t leave...quite often they don’t even move...a deer that’s been run a few times knows to sit still and hunker down or move very little ...moving around much leaves a fresh scent trail that gets them busted

I’m sorry it doesn’t work for you
 

woodmoose

Administrator
Staff member
Contributor
well,,,actually, both sides have good points,,,,

a well run dog hunt is a thing to participate in,,,like a rabbit hunt on steroids (just like I imagine a bear dog hunt is like a coon hunt on steroids - coon hunted for 20 years but looking forward to the day to participate in a bear dog hunt)

a dog on your property can affect the property owners enjoyment - that is a fact

I do think that if we, as a deer dogging community, don't get a handle on it,,,it will be lost eventually

just look at SC,,,,huge tracts of land that used to be dog clubs are now still hunt clubs (I am in one) because the land owner got tired of neighbors complaints on their smaller tracts,,,so shut it down on ALL of their lands (timber company),,,

we hunt what is most likely the finest peice of territory for a dog club,,,,17,000(ish) acres that is basically a penisula between two real big bodies of water (pee dee river and a large tributary) with 74 miles of dirt road and not a hardball on the place,,,,we can't dog hunt becuase on smaller tracts folks didn't control what was happening

so I personally see both sides of the issue,,,and we, as dog hunters, need to stop telling land owners to "deal with it" or "learn to hunt it with the dogs" or any other such thing and figure out what is best to maintain the ability to dog hunt in the future,,,

anyhow,,,,have fun
 

Newsome Road

Ten Pointer
The vast majority of people who don’t like/oppose dog hunting don’t understand it...probably have never been

A common misconception is that dogs running through your property will ruin your hunt.
The vast majority of people who dog hunt don't understand bowhunting...probably have never been.

A common misconception is that shooting at a stressed out pressured deer with a bow and arrow is the same as shooting at one that has been left alone.

Broad brushes paint both ways my friend...btw, I've been on several dog hunts.
 
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