Long Term Land Management Planning

pir8rn

Six Pointer
Hey everyone. Just wanted to get some options and opinions about how to set up my land going forward. I posted a couple years ago but have updated some since then so I figured it best to start a new post.
I have just under 15 acres, which is our homesite and recreation land (tract outlined in red). Picture is oriented so North is at top of screen. The front 2 or so acres is cleared for yard and house (left/lower stand icon is at tree line). Apple icons are all mature, acorn bearing trees. Teal lines are trails I have cut so far. Stand in middle of property is my primary spot. Deer consistently come to middle stand in the AM from the South. Haven't seen anything in the last two years when hunting evenings from it. I've never seen deer from other stand.

Screenshot_20221009-145300.png

Overall goals are as follows. We plan on being here for at least 20 years, so long-term enjoyment and good habitat are my primary endpoints.
1) Two viable stand locations. Possibly three but I think that would be pushing the limits of my tract. I also turkey hunt so I had considered a permanent ground blind for this, which could be the third location.
2) Food plot of about 1/4 to 1/2 acre. I don't have equipment for anything larger. Considering two smaller plots versus one larger (but still small) plot.
3) Artificial water source. Closest water is two properties over, so I was thinking about burying a koi pond liner or similar in a spot or two.
4) Four wheel trails that access majority of property. For fun riding when not hunting season and for making game recovery easier during season.

I'd love any input on the feasibility of my plans and helpful hints for execution would be great as well. I'm trying to think of the best way to utilize the standing mast trees, and best ways to access future stands, as well as orientation of plots. I've had success from the middle stand but in reading up a bit on land prepping, I see use of the middle of a property is often avoided to leave a 'safe' space for the wildlife.

Thanks everyone!
 

buckshooter

Old Mossy Horns
Hey everyone. Just wanted to get some options and opinions about how to set up my land going forward. I posted a couple years ago but have updated some since then so I figured it best to start a new post.
I have just under 15 acres, which is our homesite and recreation land (tract outlined in red). Picture is oriented so North is at top of screen. The front 2 or so acres is cleared for yard and house (left/lower stand icon is at tree line). Apple icons are all mature, acorn bearing trees. Teal lines are trails I have cut so far. Stand in middle of property is my primary spot. Deer consistently come to middle stand in the AM from the South. Haven't seen anything in the last two years when hunting evenings from it. I've never seen deer from other stand.

View attachment 103187

Overall goals are as follows. We plan on being here for at least 20 years, so long-term enjoyment and good habitat are my primary endpoints.
1) Two viable stand locations. Possibly three but I think that would be pushing the limits of my tract. I also turkey hunt so I had considered a permanent ground blind for this, which could be the third location.
2) Food plot of about 1/4 to 1/2 acre. I don't have equipment for anything larger. Considering two smaller plots versus one larger (but still small) plot.
3) Artificial water source. Closest water is two properties over, so I was thinking about burying a koi pond liner or similar in a spot or two.
4) Four wheel trails that access majority of property. For fun riding when not hunting season and for making game recovery easier during season.

I'd love any input on the feasibility of my plans and helpful hints for execution would be great as well. I'm trying to think of the best way to utilize the standing mast trees, and best ways to access future stands, as well as orientation of plots. I've had success from the middle stand but in reading up a bit on land prepping, I see use of the middle of a property is often avoided to leave a 'safe' space for the wildlife.

Thanks everyone!
Figuring out the predominant wind direction for the area would be a good starting point for stand placement and food plot / mast tree orientation.
 

jug

Old Mossy Horns
Contributor
I would consider putting in prescribed burn area in. Maybe 4 to 5 acres in size. The NC FOREST service will put in your burn lines. A 5 acre area being burned every 3 years will produce more native food than a half acre food plot. You could plant crimson clover in along the burn paths. Looks like a nice tract. If your trees are over 12 years old they can be burned with minimal damage .
 
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2nd Calling

Six Pointer
No expert here, but I did stay at a Homiday Inn Express.

With you having the only visible woods around, I'd open up some of the canopy and create lots of bedding pockets to hold the deer.

110 gallon tubs are great for a water source, 1 maybe 2 would be perfect near a stand location.

I'm also a fan of creating travel routes that guide deer movement...find out where they're coming from and enhance their movement where you want them to go.

Don't limit yourself to only two stands, I'd say at least 5 would give you lots of options for different winds and movement patterns throughout the season.

Bottom line, if you are super serious and can afford it, find a quality habitat manager that can come visit and create a plan/strategy to maximize your enhoyment.
 

UltraSlug

Six Pointer
Typically in my area our cold front winds come from the North or Northeast with an occasional Northwest cold front... I set my stand locations so they will be good for a N or NE wind.

I usually try to base most of my hunting around cold fronts and go from there. I do have some locations that have good wind even on non frontal conditions. That's just my 2 cents
 

pir8rn

Six Pointer
Figuring out the predominant wind direction for the area would be a good starting point for stand placement and food plot / mast tree orientation.
Is this an 'internet research' thing (we have a small, local airport not too far away and I'm pretty sure they store such data), or a 'boots on the ground' thing (where I put a flag/wind sock out back and just note the most common wind directions in morning and evening)? Or both?
 

pir8rn

Six Pointer
I would consider putting in prescribed burn area in. Maybe 4 to 5 acres in size. The NC FOREST service will put in your burn lines. A 5 acre area being burned every 3 years will produce more native food than a half acre food plot. You could plant crimson clover in along the burn paths. Looks like a nice tract. If your trees are over 12 years old they can be burned with minimal damage .
I actually had looked into prescribed burn also. Would the burn of five acres as you suggested be in the very middle? Or North (or any other) edge? I'm guessing farther from the house would be better.
We did have county biologist come out and took some core samples of the predominant tree (loblolly pine) and he estimated 23-25 years old for the primary stand.
 

jug

Old Mossy Horns
Contributor
I would talk to the NC forest ranger for your county. They will decide the best place to put it in according to your trees. They will try to stay away from the area with the most oaks
 

jug

Old Mossy Horns
Contributor
Go ahead and get started.... get on the list . They can do the first burn and you will be able to do it thereafter in a stand of that size. An evening winter burn every 2 years would be great. Keep the burn paths planted in crimson clover and ryegrass will keep the burn from jumping.
 

buckshooter

Old Mossy Horns
Is this an 'internet research' thing (we have a small, local airport not too far away and I'm pretty sure they store such data), or a 'boots on the ground' thing (where I put a flag/wind sock out back and just note the most common wind directions in morning and evening)? Or both?
Google is your friend in this respect. Get the coordinates of your lease or wherever it is you’ll be hunting. And ask for the prevailing wind direction.
 

pir8rn

Six Pointer
No expert here, but I did stay at a Homiday Inn Express.

With you having the only visible woods around, I'd open up some of the canopy and create lots of bedding pockets to hold the deer.

110 gallon tubs are great for a water source, 1 maybe 2 would be perfect near a stand location.

I'm also a fan of creating travel routes that guide deer movement...find out where they're coming from and enhance their movement where you want them to go.

Don't limit yourself to only two stands, I'd say at least 5 would give you lots of options for different winds and movement patterns throughout the season.

Bottom line, if you are super serious and can afford it, find a quality habitat manager that can come visit and create a plan/strategy to maximize your enhoyment.
By opening canopy, you mean take down some of the larger trees to allow more sunlight?
And I was hoping someone would say the feed trough/pond liner wasn't crazy. Haha.
I figured 2-3 stands was 'safe', but I do have 5 all told between lockons/ladders/boxes. I'll start with three then maybe add as needed. Going to have to convince the wife I need more cameras though...
As far as management plan, would this be through something like QDMA, or NC Wildlife? A quick Google lead me to WildFlow out of Raleigh, but there aren't any prices available. Anyone know anything about them? I work hard and make good money, so I don't mind spending it to make this property more enjoyable. Especially if a plan form a certified manager would save me in the long run over trial and error and YouTube... =)
 

para4514

Eight Pointer
Contributor
I actually had looked into prescribed burn also. Would the burn of five acres as you suggested be in the very middle? Or North (or any other) edge? I'm guessing farther from the house would be better.
We did have county biologist come out and took some core samples of the predominant tree (loblolly pine) and he estimated 23-25 years old for the primary stand.
Was the person that came out the NC Forest Service county ranger, or a Wildlife Commission biologist? Did they make any recommendations?

Looks like much of the tract is closed canopy pine. As already suggested, open the canopy by removing some of the dominate trees. It has been mentioned on the forum before, 15 acres is probably too small for a commercial timber harvest, especially when you deduct for your home site and oak dominated areas. If you could find someone that would thin the stand for the wood you would probably be way ahead of the game. Otherwise, there will be a huge amount of effort and debris to make much difference in the understory. Heavy thin the pine, remove competition around oak, install the openings you want, cut out where your freelines/linear openings are going to increase volume of wood being harvested. Once you get the canopy open and some woody understory coming up you can use herbicides, brush saw and maybe some fire to manage the vegetation under the pine to enhance cover and browse. Keep the woody sprouts under the oaks cut back in patches so the growth does not get over 4 years old before cutting back, more or less a young cutover with acorns dropping from above.

Small tracts can be a challenge. Not only are you at the mercy of your neighbors but the scale of practices and limit management options.
 

pir8rn

Six Pointer
Was the person that came out the NC Forest Service county ranger, or a Wildlife Commission biologist? Did they make any recommendations?

Looks like much of the tract is closed canopy pine. As already suggested, open the canopy by removing some of the dominate trees. It has been mentioned on the forum before, 15 acres is probably too small for a commercial timber harvest, especially when you deduct for your home site and oak dominated areas. If you could find someone that would thin the stand for the wood you would probably be way ahead of the game. Otherwise, there will be a huge amount of effort and debris to make much difference in the understory. Heavy thin the pine, remove competition around oak, install the openings you want, cut out where your freelines/linear openings are going to increase volume of wood being harvested. Once you get the canopy open and some woody understory coming up you can use herbicides, brush saw and maybe some fire to manage the vegetation under the pine to enhance cover and browse. Keep the woody sprouts under the oaks cut back in patches so the growth does not get over 4 years old before cutting back, more or less a young cutover with acorns dropping from above.

Small tracts can be a challenge. Not only are you at the mercy of your neighbors but the scale of practices and limit management options.
Was the county ranger office, his 'deputy' I guess. I got an email summary but I didn't find it particular useful.
Did have a timber company come out like four years ago before we built the house to give a quote and they offered me around 10k for everything (clear cut the whole 15 acres). Decided that wasn't the direction I wanted to go, so here we are...
 

para4514

Eight Pointer
Contributor
May want to reach out to the Wildlife Conservation Biologist that works in your district since you seem to be most interested in wildlife.
A clear-cut would probably get you the best option from solely a deer standpoint, but that does not meet your other objectives for the property.
 

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Deep River

Ten Pointer
Contributor
Is this an 'internet research' thing (we have a small, local airport not too far away and I'm pretty sure they store such data), or a 'boots on the ground' thing (where I put a flag/wind sock out back and just note the most common wind directions in morning and evening)? Or both?
This might help:

 

pir8rn

Six Pointer
You can look up your city on www.weatherspark.com
Gives a lot of info...specifically wind direction by month.
Says for me the prevailing wind is from the north Sept to Mar. I most often see deer approach from the South, so conventional wisdom would suggest that they should always be winding me from my current stand location. Not sure how I can build in a downwind approach right now but at least it's some information to go off. Thanks for the link!
 

Helium

Old Mossy Horns
Hey everyone. Just wanted to get some options and opinions about how to set up my land going forward. I posted a couple years ago but have updated some since then so I figured it best to start a new post.
I have just under 15 acres, which is our homesite and recreation land (tract outlined in red). Picture is oriented so North is at top of screen. The front 2 or so acres is cleared for yard and house (left/lower stand icon is at tree line). Apple icons are all mature, acorn bearing trees. Teal lines are trails I have cut so far. Stand in middle of property is my primary spot. Deer consistently come to middle stand in the AM from the South. Haven't seen anything in the last two years when hunting evenings from it. I've never seen deer from other stand.

View attachment 103187

Overall goals are as follows. We plan on being here for at least 20 years, so long-term enjoyment and good habitat are my primary endpoints.
1) Two viable stand locations. Possibly three but I think that would be pushing the limits of my tract. I also turkey hunt so I had considered a permanent ground blind for this, which could be the third location.
2) Food plot of about 1/4 to 1/2 acre. I don't have equipment for anything larger. Considering two smaller plots versus one larger (but still small) plot.
3) Artificial water source. Closest water is two properties over, so I was thinking about burying a koi pond liner or similar in a spot or two.
4) Four wheel trails that access majority of property. For fun riding when not hunting season and for making game recovery easier during season.

I'd love any input on the feasibility of my plans and helpful hints for execution would be great as well. I'm trying to think of the best way to utilize the standing mast trees, and best ways to access future stands, as well as orientation of plots. I've had success from the middle stand but in reading up a bit on land prepping, I see use of the middle of a property is often avoided to leave a 'safe' space for the wildlife.

Thanks everyone!
Adding food, water , and minerals will not HURT … BUT you will never compete w the food surrounding you in the adjoining fields.

So I’d recommend creating thermal cover if at all possible
 

QBD2

Old Mossy Horns
Says for me the prevailing wind is from the north Sept to Mar. I most often see deer approach from the South, so conventional wisdom would suggest that they should always be winding me from my current stand location. Not sure how I can build in a downwind approach right now but at least it's some information to go off. Thanks for the link!
Ain’t many places in NC that the prevailing wind isn’t West, year round. It does switch from North to South, but it’s usually west. SE is the least common direction IME.
 

MJ74

Old Mossy Horns
Ain’t many places in NC that the prevailing wind isn’t West, year round. It does switch from North to South, but it’s usually west. SE is the least common direction IME.
That's correct.....every place I hunt the predominant wind is just about always from the west.
 

pir8rn

Six Pointer
That's correct.....every place I hunt the predominant wind is just about always from the west.
So am I likely just reading the data wrong? That website seems to show pretty clearly that the prevailing wind is north for the Fall season. Land is pretty flat where I am so it's not like there's any hills that would be affecting it...
 

pir8rn

Six Pointer
Adding food, water , and minerals will not HURT … BUT you will never compete w the food surrounding you in the adjoining fields.

So I’d recommend creating thermal cover if at all possible
Maybe I'm overthinking it, but I don't understand what you mean by thermal cover. A quick Google seems to indicate evergreen trees that retain leaves to retain and/or block heat. So this would be part of the long term plan I guess. But would I plant after the prescribed burn, and in the area or just nearby?
 

MJ74

Old Mossy Horns
So am I likely just reading the data wrong? That website seems to show pretty clearly that the prevailing wind is north for the Fall season. Land is pretty flat where I am so it's not like there's any hills that would be affecting it...
Not sure, I just know where I hunt its out of the West the majority of the time.
 

Helium

Old Mossy Horns
Maybe I'm overthinking it, but I don't understand what you mean by thermal cover. A quick Google seems to indicate evergreen trees that retain leaves to retain and/or block heat. So this would be part of the long term plan I guess. But would I plant after the prescribed burn, and in the area or just nearby?
Not sure where or when… just saying it’s bedding cover in the winter time

Could be pines, firs, cedars, in the mountains it’s mountain laurel etc
 

QBD2

Old Mossy Horns
So am I likely just reading the data wrong? That website seems to show pretty clearly that the prevailing wind is north for the Fall season. Land is pretty flat where I am so it's not like there's any hills that would be affecting it...
Just look at where our weather(fronts) comes from. All of our weather, with the exception of offshore storms(TS, canes, nor’easters) comes from the west.

The most common wind direction for NC is SW(jet stream) Cold fronts will swing that to NW for a few days. Sure, the wind comes from every direction at some point, but the most common denominator will always be WEST.
 

Hunterreed

Twelve Pointer
Windfinder website is a good site to predict wind speeds, direction for a few days out. Majority of days in late fall and winter at least in south central nc where I'm at the high pressure systems roll through with winds starting out of NW usually changing to N and Sometimes NE until its right on us. Then a period of little wind due to the sinking air until it moves eastward and eventually due to the clockwise rotation we get a period of S to SW wind. I'm a fair weather hunter so most stand placements are based on hunting rising or high air pressure weather associated with these NW through SW wind directions. Also covers the cold front wind directions out of the N. Some people see more deer activity during falling air pressure to low pressure systems which usually have the opposite wind direction shift but in my area I have always had better luck with high pressure systems and rising barometric pressure. If you plan to hunt a lot on a smaller parcel you should have stands to cover at least N through SW even S winds because from experience hunting the same property for 35 years a couple of sits with the wrong wind direction will make a small property lifeless real fast
 

pir8rn

Six Pointer
Would it be redundant to burn a few acres then clear cut some inside of that? I have mapped out a rectangle that is 4.5 acres in center of property and another 1.5 acres inside of that as pictured. Figured I could plant some good bedding cover on the edges (specifically the right/east border) and then put some sawtooth oaks or chestnut or something in the clear cut. Aa mentioned above, I plan to keep the burn lines cut and would probably put clover in them...

Also, have a good deal of wild grapevine in front of property, which is annoying. Is it worth the trouble to move back into the pines, from a wildlife food perspective?
 

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para4514

Eight Pointer
Contributor
Have you reached out to any of the folks recommended above? It is really difficult to manage in 2-D. Get somebody that can get on the tract and give you some advise. As far as redundancies. If you are going to clear cut anything you will have bedding cover for a few years and even longer if you manage it to keep the growth 4 or 5 years old without the need to plant anything. Same thing with planting sawtooth oaks. You have existing mast producing oaks at the back of the property, which looks to be 350 to 450 feet from the area you mentioned planting sawtooths. Why not focus on improving the hard mast that you already have, instead of waiting at least 5 to 8 years for another food source that matures at roughly the same time as what you already have a few hundred feet away?
 
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