lawsuit against the NC Division of Marine Fisheries under way

cheapdate

Eight Pointer
This past week, CCA NC and the other 89 citizen plaintiffs presented powerful testimony from a number of key witnesses:
  • Cameron Boltes, a leader in the recreational fishing industry and former Marine Fisheries Commission member, testified about his experience with the Commission and its repeated failures in protecting our coastal fisheries resources from overexploitation. He also described the declines in critical estuarine fish species from when he first started fishing our coastal waters in the 1990s, and how, if current management practices continue, our coastal fisheries resources won’t be available for future generations. He also provided firsthand accounts of resource depletion from gillnet usage and shrimp trawling in the Pamlico Sound.
  • Colonel Carter Witten, who retired several weeks ago as the highest commanding officer of the North Carolina Marine Patrol, was called to testify about the significant enforcement challenges in our coastal waters that he personally observed over the course of 25 years. Called to testify as an adverse witness, Colonel Witten gave exceptionally candid, revealing testimony that with more than 2.5 million areas of water to patrol and no more than 29 Marine Patrol officers on duty at any given time, Marine Patrol simply “doesn’t have the officers and resources it needs” to “make sure our fishing laws aren’t being violated,” and that “something has got to change.”
  • Rick Sasser, a lifelong recreational fisherman and a longtime critical observer of the State’s coastal fisheries management, testified about how North Carolina’s gray trout abundance decades ago drew him to his passion for fishing, and how the species’ crash led him to become an activist for more effective resource management. He shared his analysis of the State’s twice-yearly trawl studies in estuarine waters showing that juvenile gray trout are most abundant in the deeper waters of the Pamlico Sound where the State has allowed destructive shrimp trawling—all despite the State’s awareness that this area is a critical habitat for juvenile gray trout and other important finfish species.
  • Dr. Louis Daniel, a lifelong fisherman and North Carolina native who served as North Carolina’s Fisheries Director from 2007 to 2016, testified candidly and comprehensively about decades of failed fisheries management in North Carolina under the Fisheries Reform Act. Dr. Daniel took ownership of his role as Fisheries Director in allowing fisheries to decline, testifying that the State’s tolerance of extensive estuarine gillnet usage and estuarine shrimp trawls has set North Carolina apart from all other states, and that bycatch from those gears is a primary reason that most of our fisheries have collapsed. Based on his extensive experience, Dr. Daniel described a broken management system, where the Fisheries Management Plan (FMP) process is protracted and cumbersome, where direct political interference by legislators and administrative superiors forced him to make resource-averse management decisions, where the Marine Fisheries Commission typically sides with the commercial fishing industry, and where the current Division of Marine Fisheries ignores precautionary management in favor of maximal resource exploitation. Dr. Daniel testified that as a result of all of this, after 28 years of management under the Fisheries Reform Act, the State has virtually no management successes and cannot claim to have rebuilt a single stock managed under a state FMP to long-term viability, the statutory standard for coastal fisheries management.
 
Now the cold stun closure will make tempers flare even more... IMO, that was a major straw that broke the camels back last year. They closed Flounder, then the cold stun brought on the calling for the trawling ban.

Now we still have flounder closed, sheepshead cut in half to (5) sheepshead with revised sizes, closed trout, closed striper, 1 slot red, 1 gray, 10 black drum. What's next? The closure of black drum and sheepshead due to not being able to catch and eat anything else?

My prediction is we are going to see an even bigger calling for a trawling ban this time. Time will tell I guess.
 
Trawl ban argument started before last year as did the lawsuit. If uvr talking about the proposed legislation it was tacked on to a proposed bill re flounder. To me it was the rec crowd throwing something onto a bill that was basically a comm bill with some "sheep's clothing" on it.
 
Trawl ban argument started before last year as did the lawsuit. If uvr talking about the proposed legislation it was tacked on to a proposed bill re flounder. To me it was the rec crowd throwing something onto a bill that was basically a comm bill with some "sheep's clothing" on it.
The trawl ban argument has been going on since trawling started 🤣

The legislation last year started as a bill to get a recreational flounder and red snapper season guaranteed whether or not the “science” supported it.

The bill then had a commercial quota for flounder added because the recreational season likely would have allowed harvest of 100% of the total “quota” set by DMF and commercial access (which would have been left with DMF) would likely have been de facto eliminated.

Both recreational and commercial sides supported this bill that had access for both sectors.

Last minute CCA and NC Wildlife Federation lobbied to change the bill to include a trawl ban because they did not want equal access to flounder. They tried to pass this amendment to the bill in less than 48 hours.
 
The trawl ban argument has been going on since trawling started 🤣

The legislation last year started as a bill to get a recreational flounder and red snapper season guaranteed whether or not the “science” supported it.

The bill then had a commercial quota for flounder added because the recreational season likely would have allowed harvest of 100% of the total “quota” set by DMF and commercial access (which would have been left with DMF) would likely have been de facto eliminated.

Both recreational and commercial sides supported this bill that had access for both sectors.

Last minute CCA and NC Wildlife Federation lobbied to change the bill to include a trawl ban because they did not want equal access to flounder. They tried to pass this amendment to the bill in less than 48 hours.
You are accurate with everything you mentioned except for the part about the CCA. While the fur was flying last year, the CCA released a statement saying they were not behind the push to ban inside trawling; however, they did support it. As further proof, the day the bill was being deliberated the CCA was not present in Raleigh. If the Wildlife Federation was behind it, please provide evidence. I am of the opinion that a majority of the senate realized something's got to change and voted accordingly. Bobby Hanig and other Downeast legislators have been claiming that Big Money paid off the senate. Which is a ridiculous claim. Why would power players pay off the senate and not pay off the house?
 
You are accurate with everything you mentioned except for the part about the CCA. While the fur was flying last year, the CCA released a statement saying they were not behind the push to ban inside trawling; however, they did support it. As further proof, the day the bill was being deliberated the CCA was not present in Raleigh. If the Wildlife Federation was behind it, please provide evidence. I am of the opinion that a majority of the senate realized something's got to change and voted accordingly. Bobby Hanig and other Downeast legislators have been claiming that Big Money paid off the senate. Which is a ridiculous claim. Why would power players pay off the senate and not pay off the house?
 
You are accurate with everything you mentioned except for the part about the CCA. While the fur was flying last year, the CCA released a statement saying they were not behind the push to ban inside trawling; however, they did support it. As further proof, the day the bill was being deliberated the CCA was not present in Raleigh. If the Wildlife Federation was behind it, please provide evidence. I am of the opinion that a majority of the senate realized something's got to change and voted accordingly. Bobby Hanig and other Downeast legislators have been claiming that Big Money paid off the senate. Which is a ridiculous claim. Why would power players pay off the senate and not pay off the house?
David Sneed (CCA director) and the NC Wildlife Federation lobbyists were walking hand in hand in Raleigh last summer during all the chaos.

With CCA actively suing the state their direct involvement in any of this could hurt their case as they could have been seen as seeking remedy outside of the court.

Of course they denied involvement…..
 
Cameron Boltes, who was mentioned earlier as testifying is the Property Manger for Grady White.

Eddie Smith, Grady White owner has always contributed heavily to CCA and Cameron Boltes was also one of the front runners in Raleigh introducing the trawl ban legislation.

Here is a quote from the Grady white conservative & advocacy page tying them all together:

That spirit continues today. Eddie Smith has received the Billfish Foundation’s Rybovich Lifetime Achievement Award, the American Sportfishing Association’s Lifetime Achievement Award, and was recognized by the North Carolina Chapter of the Coastal Conservation Association for his lifelong commitment. CCA-NC President, David Sneed, summed it up in 2021, “Eddie Smith’s support for coastal conservation has never been about the recognition or the accolades, but it is still important that he knows how much we appreciate all he has done over the years for CCA in North Carolina and nationally, and for the protection of our coastal resources.” Sneed continued. “It is not always easy to stand up for what you believe in, but Eddie has never shied away from putting his name, and the Grady-White name, alongside the ideals of CCA. Thank you, Eddie Smith, for being a true steward of the resource and a conservation hero.” He also received the NC Wildlife Foundation’s Governor’s Sportsman of the Year Award for his decades of conservation contributions.

They are all the same devil, just wearing a different shade of blue dress.
 
Cameron Boltes, who was mentioned earlier as testifying is the Property Manger for Grady White.

Eddie Smith, Grady White owner has always contributed heavily to CCA and Cameron Boltes was also one of the front runners in Raleigh introducing the trawl ban legislation.

Here is a quote from the Grady white conservative & advocacy page tying them all together:

That spirit continues today. Eddie Smith has received the Billfish Foundation’s Rybovich Lifetime Achievement Award, the American Sportfishing Association’s Lifetime Achievement Award, and was recognized by the North Carolina Chapter of the Coastal Conservation Association for his lifelong commitment. CCA-NC President, David Sneed, summed it up in 2021, “Eddie Smith’s support for coastal conservation has never been about the recognition or the accolades, but it is still important that he knows how much we appreciate all he has done over the years for CCA in North Carolina and nationally, and for the protection of our coastal resources.” Sneed continued. “It is not always easy to stand up for what you believe in, but Eddie has never shied away from putting his name, and the Grady-White name, alongside the ideals of CCA. Thank you, Eddie Smith, for being a true steward of the resource and a conservation hero.” He also received the NC Wildlife Foundation’s Governor’s Sportsman of the Year Award for his decades of conservation contributions.

They are all the same devil, just wearing a different shade of blue dress.
I contribute to a lot of organizations; that doesn't make me a shot caller. Is that all you got? Any Wildlife Federation evidence?
 
David Sneed (CCA director) and the NC Wildlife Federation lobbyists were walking hand in hand in Raleigh last summer during all the chaos.

With CCA actively suing the state their direct involvement in any of this could hurt their case as they could have been seen as seeking remedy outside of the court.

Of course they denied involvement…..
Seeking remedy outside of the court and then not getting any helps the court case. That's what the case is all about in the first place.
 
@cheapdate

I don’t know if you have ever been to Raleigh but all that 💩 up there stinks and no one ever admits they clogged the toilet!!!

Especially when the 💩 overflows as bad as it did last summer.

Once the bass tards win they will indeed let everyone know it was their stinky A SS the whole time.
 
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I think I'm sick and tired of these political groups deciding what fish I get to keep. There should be enough people that get paid big money to decide about trawling. I always look at these groups throwing money around as they do it for personal gain. These people do it to get paid. Like everything else follow the money. I dont need the rich pretty boys from Raleigh of the CCA speaking for me.
 
I think I'm sick and tired of these political groups deciding what fish I get to keep. There should be enough people that get paid big money to decide about trawling. I always look at these groups throwing money around as they do it for personal gain. These people do it to get paid. Like everything else follow the money. I dont need the rich pretty boys from Raleigh of the CCA speaking for me.

NCDMF dictates what you can keep not political groups though commercial lobbying has controlled what you can keep for 30 years. If you don’t support the lawsuit you’re pissing in the wind. This lawsuit is the best chance recs have to date. Take the time to read the lawsuit, evidence and how it’s being presented before serving judgement. Trawling is killing it for NC even the commercials won’t defend it. So who’s speaking for you as a recreational angler then? Yourself? You voicing your opinion anywhere other than here?
 
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The trawl ban argument has been going on since trawling started 🤣

The legislation last year started as a bill to get a recreational flounder and red snapper season guaranteed whether or not the “science” supported it.

The bill then had a commercial quota for flounder added because the recreational season likely would have allowed harvest of 100% of the total “quota” set by DMF and commercial access (which would have been left with DMF) would likely have been de facto eliminated.

Both recreational and commercial sides supported this bill that had access for both sectors.

Last minute CCA and NC Wildlife Federation lobbied to change the bill to include a trawl ban because they did not want equal access to flounder. They tried to pass this amendment to the bill in less than 48 hours.

So you don’t think trawling is a problem?
 
So you don’t think trawling is a problem?
No I don’t.

The more I have researched over the past year or so has cemented my position. Our stocks of fish has gone up and down for the last 100 years with trawling.

In the 1970s we started closing areas to trawling. 1.1 million acres are closed to trawling in our state (we have 2.2 million) Had booms of fish since then. Also had low periods of fish stocks.

In the 1980s we developed Turtle Excluder Devices in our home state. These also excluded some fish. But a lot of flounder. Flat fish hits the smooth bars, slides out.

In the 1990s we developed Bycatch Reduction Devices to reduce finfish bycatch. Some fish stocks peaked in the 90’s.

Not sure what we did in the 2000s but stocks continued to fluctuate.

In the 2010s more Bycatch changes were made. Stock are stock fluctuating.

Trawling has an impact just like any other food production. We have done the best we could and continue to try to minimize that impact.

We have worked with and appeased many environmental groups over the years with our successful changes and have proven our shrimp trawl fishery is sustainable.

If you don’t like shrimp trawling and think they need to go that is your decision. But I don’t like how everyone points fingers and do not acknowledge all of the things we have given up and all the things we have done to make our gear more environmentally friendly over the decades.
 
Jerry Schill, retired, and all of his cohorts, not retired,
Jerry might have been there to stop the most damming legislation that CCA and other anti-commercial groups tried to get passed but I know he never did anything to limit the amount of fish recreational anglers could catch.

The best example of this is red drum.

Commercial fishermen have been wanting higher limits of drum for over ten years.

The stock has been “rebuilding” since 2000. We have long since rebuilt it. I think the last assessment we were 5-6 times our needed biomass!

There is plenty of fish to get more commercial quota and a higher than one recreational bag limit.

Yet we all have been stuck at a 250,000 pound commercial quota and a 1 fish rec limit for well over a decade.

CCA is holding it hostage.

They do not want the bag limit for rec higher because that would mean an increase in commercial quota.
 
Jerry might have been there to stop the most damming legislation that CCA and other anti-commercial groups tried to get passed but I know he never did anything to limit the amount of fish recreational anglers could catch.

The best example of this is red drum.

Commercial fishermen have been wanting higher limits of drum for over ten years.

The stock has been “rebuilding” since 2000. We have long since rebuilt it. I think the last assessment we were 5-6 times our needed biomass!

There is plenty of fish to get more commercial quota and a higher than one recreational bag limit.

Yet we all have been stuck at a 250,000 pound commercial quota and a 1 fish rec limit for well over a decade.

CCA is holding it hostage.

They do not want the bag limit for rec higher because that would mean an increase in commercial quota.
how many seats on the MFC does the CCA hold?
 
NCDMF dictates what you can keep not political groups though commercial lobbying has controlled what you can keep for 30 years. If you don’t support the lawsuit you’re pissing in the wind. This lawsuit is the best chance recs have to date. Take the time to read the lawsuit, evidence and how it’s being presented before serving judgement. Trawling is killing it for NC even the commercials won’t defend it. So who’s speaking for you as a recreational angler then? Yourself? You voicing your opinion anywhere other than here?
I voice my opinion anytime anywhere but it doesn't do any good. I dont need or want the CCA speaking for me because I'm telling you they are looking out for themselves not us. Great we file a lawsuit and it ends up in court for a judge to decide and you want me to trust him. Think not.
 
No I don’t.

The more I have researched over the past year or so has cemented my position. Our stocks of fish has gone up and down for the last 100 years with trawling.

In the 1970s we started closing areas to trawling. 1.1 million acres are closed to trawling in our state (we have 2.2 million) Had booms of fish since then. Also had low periods of fish stocks.

In the 1980s we developed Turtle Excluder Devices in our home state. These also excluded some fish. But a lot of flounder. Flat fish hits the smooth bars, slides out.

In the 1990s we developed Bycatch Reduction Devices to reduce finfish bycatch. Some fish stocks peaked in the 90’s.

Not sure what we did in the 2000s but stocks continued to fluctuate.

In the 2010s more Bycatch changes were made. Stock are stock fluctuating.

Trawling has an impact just like any other food production. We have done the best we could and continue to try to minimize that impact.

We have worked with and appeased many environmental groups over the years with our successful changes and have proven our shrimp trawl fishery is sustainable.

If you don’t like shrimp trawling and think they need to go that is your decision. But I don’t like how everyone points fingers and do not acknowledge all of the things we have given up and all the things we have done to make our gear more environmentally friendly over the decades.

Dumping millions and millions of dead juvenile fish back dead doesn’t have any consequences….i think it’s pretty settled at 3 or 4lbs of bycatch per pound of shrimp. Lower the headrope size to 50’ or limit the size of the vessel then it’s managing for locals. Nobody has given up more than recs have just look at what we can keep. Speckle trout is closed but they’ll still be 1000’s killed in gillnets while the seasons closed while commercials target other species in the spring.
 
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I voice my opinion anytime anywhere but it doesn't do any good. I dont need or want the CCA speaking for me because I'm telling you they are looking out for themselves not us. Great we file a lawsuit and it ends up in court for a judge to decide and you want me to trust him. Think not.

Honest question….so what is it the they (CCA) are specifically looking out for that is different than what you and most recreational anglers are wanting? You make it sound as if they only have interests for themselves and no one else. What are their motives then? How does it benefit them only?
 
how many seats on the MFC does the CCA hold?
Currently 4 and with the science seat (radar) always openly saying he is going to vote for the most conservative limits, you may as well say 5 out of 9.

Tom Roller was on the CCA board.

Willie Closs Jr. is a named plaintiff on the current lawsuit.

William Service openly repeats common CCA and Rick Sasser talking points.

William Hobgood always seconds tom roller notions and is their “yes man”

Doug Rader the science seat is not CCA but he always votes and has said at the table multiple times he will always vote for the most conservative limits for everyone.
 
Dumping millions and millions of dead juvenile fish back dead doesn’t have any consequences….i think it’s pretty settled at 3 or 4lbs of bycatch per pound of shrimp. Lower the headrope size to 50’ or limit the size of the vessel then it’s managing for locals. Nobody has given up more than recs have just look at what we can keep. Speckle trout is closed but they’ll still be 1000’s killed in gillnets while the seasons closed while commercials target other species in the spring.
This is stuff I have been saying. We have a maximum head rope limit of 220’ feet. And when you pull it’s in a crescent shape that actually only spreads around 180’. In an area as big as the Pamlico sound that size net is nothing.

And it is managed for the locals. Less than 20 out of state boats shrimped in NC on average the last 5 years. We actually have more shrimpers leave here and work in other states most years.

The recs have given up alot. I never denied that. I have spent an enormous amount of my time trying to get recreational access increased as well.

And there will be some amount of discarded dead trout through MFC regulations that some say (you included) we have been in control of for 30 years!!!
 
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