Land leasing is getting ridiculous in NC

sky hawk

Old Mossy Horns
Contributor
Lease prices are always rising, just like land, food, gas, cars, etc...

Johnnie
Just for fun, I punched it into an inflation calculator. For reference, we leased a 350 acre tract of land in Anson county in 1991, before the lease price explosion IMO, for $3/acre. I compared that to a gallon of gas and a dozen eggs to see what the cost should be today with inflation adjustment.

Gas: $1.14 (1991) should be $2.10 (2018) Actual cost today: $1.97 or -6%
Eggs: $1.01 (1991) should be $1.86 (2018) Actual cost today: $0.98 or -46%
Lease price $3/acre (1991) should be $5.53 (2018) Actual cost for the same land: $17/acre (+207%) in 2014. Probably $20/ac. by now.
 

Homebrewale

Old Mossy Horns
PL hunting is the hot new thing now. The hunting beast web site and the various you tube shows have really gotten attention to PL.
Enjoy it before it gets "too popular"
In some states, it's really good, even in highly populated states. My nephew shoots large bucks off of OH and NY public lands every season. He's talking about me joining him in WV next year. As for seeing other hunters here, I'm concerned about some spots on Jordan now. I was driving Hanks Chapel Rd a few days ago and noticed one spot I've hunted now has a large brown Gamelands Access sign on the main road pointing to the parking area located probably half mile back on a neighborhood road.
 

Johnnie

Eight Pointer
Just for fun, I punched it into an inflation calculator. For reference, we leased a 350 acre tract of land in Anson county in 1991, before the lease price explosion IMO, for $3/acre. I compared that to a gallon of gas and a dozen eggs to see what the cost should be today with inflation adjustment.

Gas: $1.14 (1991) should be $2.10 (2018) Actual cost today: $1.97 or -6%
Eggs: $1.01 (1991) should be $1.86 (2018) Actual cost today: $0.98 or -46%
Lease price $3/acre (1991) should be $5.53 (2018) Actual cost for the same land: $17/acre (+207%) in 2014. Probably $20/ac. by now.
Good work, but not exactly applicable. Gas is wildly variable due to supply, it was more expensive in the early 80's than the early 90's. $1.31 in 1981 would be $3.57 today ( https://www.titlemax.com/discovery-center/planes-trains-and-automobiles/average-gas-prices-through-history/ ), inflation calculator : https://westegg.com/inflation/
Egg's, I would guess, can be less expensive due to advances in livestock methods, collection, automation, etc....(not really versed on that, so I am guessing).
Just because you paid $3/acre doesn't mean that all land was that price, some was free, some may have been more. Even today, that $17 to $20/acre doesn't mean that ALL land is that price, some is more, some is less. I personally don't know anyone that is paying $20+, but have heard of it. Also, leasing land, is still relatively "new", I never heard of it before the mid 80's, and there are still owners that could make good money, but they have no idea what it is worth.

I don't disagree with the observation that prices are higher, but based on my observations, I haven't seen any drastic increase since the early 2000's. I saw the big jump from around the late 90's to around 2005, but nothing crazy since. But keep in mind, from the mid 80's to the late 90's was only 15 years or so, not much time for a "new" product to evolve and stabilize, especially when it was paid on an annual base (and before the internet).

Also, keep in mind why some, but not all, of those leases are "out there", unrealistic value by landowner, previous hunter realized it wasn't worth it, no game, crazy land owner, greedy landowner, terrible neighbors, lots of trespassing, etc...in other words, it wasn't worth it to whoever had it before......and it probably won't be worth it to you either if you are offended at the price.
 

Aaron H

Twelve Pointer
Contributor
I was on a small lease with 2 others, just 80 acres but had some turkeys. We paid $850 but lost it this past spring just after turkey season. The owners decided not to lease it any more- I am still so disappointed!
 

jcannon

Ten Pointer
Yep, you are looking at a very small sample of a few years growth. The population has literally exploded, in deer terms it is almost past carrying capacity, lol.
There was a time in my life that I knew everyone in my hometown. I knew at least one person in every house. You used to not be able to even go out to eat because you couldnt get away from people that wanted to stop at your table to talk. I can go to walmart for months now and not see 1 person that I know. I may occasionally see someone at the local pharmacy, but thats it. When I was younger people would actually scold you for asking to hunt each year....they would say, "you know that you dont have to ask, now go on."
I haven't been able to find a place to hunt in my home county for quite a while now. Last deer I killed in Alexander Co. was a 4 pt. buck I shot with a muzzleloader, I was 16 years old. That was 35 years ago......
Dang, you got to watch out for those Alexander County people.😀 I've lived here for five years and have given up on finding a place to hunt. There's still a small population, like 37000, but the county is small. I have found a lot of land in surrounding counties though
 

jcannon

Ten Pointer
Same here I'm looking for turkey lease any where within 6-8 hours or any kind deal where people deer hunt and want lease turkey rights but there is very slim to none that I've found
I have a good size tract of land that you can hunt. I don't really Turkey hunt anymore because I'm really busy during the Spring and I need some turkeys killed. They eat way too much corn during deer season lol.
 

Ol Copper

Eight Pointer
Dang, you got to watch out for those Alexander County people.😀 I've lived here for five years and have given up on finding a place to hunt. There's still a small population, like 37000, but the county is small. I have found a lot of land in surrounding counties though
Yep, you gotta watch us 😃😃
Agree, it is very hard to find a spot here. I also do better in the surrounding counties. Ours is just so small its already tied up it seems. Guess Ive gotten used to driving an hour to hunt so its not all bad, still some places to be had. 👍🏻
 

bryguy

Old Mossy Horns
You think lease prices are high? The farm in front of mine is 100 acres and is for sale and they are asking 600K for it. There are probably 50 acres of crop land(at about $150 an acre lease price for tending) and the rest is woods (poor quality timber at that, mostly gum and poplar) and swampy bottom land. It has been on the market for a while now, and I doubt she sell it at that price. I really would love to have that farm, but not at that price.
 

Banjo

Old Mossy Horns
And it is not going to get any better. From here on out, you will see a drastic increase in lease rates.
 
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sky hawk

Old Mossy Horns
Contributor
Good work, but not exactly applicable. Gas is wildly variable due to supply, it was more expensive in the early 80's than the early 90's. $1.31 in 1981 would be $3.57 today ( https://www.titlemax.com/discovery-center/planes-trains-and-automobiles/average-gas-prices-through-history/ ), inflation calculator : https://westegg.com/inflation/
Egg's, I would guess, can be less expensive due to advances in livestock methods, collection, automation, etc....(not really versed on that, so I am guessing).
Just because you paid $3/acre doesn't mean that all land was that price, some was free, some may have been more. Even today, that $17 to $20/acre doesn't mean that ALL land is that price, some is more, some is less.
I chose gas and a common food item because that's what you mentioned. If that's not applicable, choose another common item (loaf of bread, KW of electricity, etc.) and run the numbers. As far as gas being $3.57 today (based on price in 1981), that is an exaggerated example that gas has not risen any faster than general inflation. You made the statement that lease prices go up just like everything else in life. Inflation-adjusted gas prices, despite short term volatility, have been essentially flat over the long haul since the 1930's. Most common items we buy are the same or less cost when adjusted for inflation.

I chose 1991 because I had a personal example from that time, but also because that was about the time that hunting leases became widespread. If anyone else has any examples of lease costs on the same tract of land from the '90's to today, I'd be interested to hear them. They certainly may not all have increased that much, but from what members are saying on this board, I think the cost has continued to rise since the early 2000's. And it has risen faster than most everything else we buy, aside from high end trucks and college tuition.

My point is I think it's a legitimate concern that lease prices have risen relatively quickly in the last 25 years and continue to rise at a rate much faster than other costs in life. Thankfully, the nature of land and landowner relationships often shelters some lease prices from market demand. Some established landowners stay at the same rate well after the market dictates a higher price.
 

DBCooper

Old Mossy Horns
Contributor
You think lease prices are high? The farm in front of mine is 100 acres and is for sale and they are asking 600K for it. There are probably 50 acres of crop land(at about $150 an acre lease price for tending) and the rest is woods (poor quality timber at that, mostly gum and poplar) and swampy bottom land. It has been on the market for a while now, and I doubt she sell it at that price. I really would love to have that farm, but not at that price.
My bet is.....the greater the timber value a property has.........the lesser the hunting value. Those scrub areas are great for deer.
 

antlers11

Button Buck
Small parcels can be great. I have access to several hundred acres, but I see more deer on one 1/4 acre section of powerline right of way than at any other spot. My two wall hangers came from that spot & I can see a trailer park on one side at 300 yards and a housing project within 500 yards in the other direction from my stand. You don’t necessarily need big tracts to find big bucks either. The biggest buck I’ve seen in person or in photos were one whose picture was taken from my buddy’s deck in Emerald Isle & another that was killed in a 20 acre field that lies behind a subdivision.
I agree. My buddy hunts a small public parcel in the Harris game lands and does very well. I hunt my seven acres and generally shoot one per year (my self imposed limit) and then focus on game lands as I enjoy stalking and still hunting as opposed to stand hunting. Just as a matter of principal, I would never pay to hunt. I don't mind seeing other hunters and I try to use them to my advantage. Even on my seven acres residence, I have never posted my property.
 

Rescue44

Twelve Pointer
.
1. I grew up in NJ (please don't hate me)
2. NC is getting more and more similar to that every year.
3. I left there for a reason, I'll be doing the same here as soon as the kids are off to school.
1. Rof....for me it's mostly the individual..mostly.😉
2. God I hope not. Terrified you are correct. Liberal BS. Friend from Orange county, says that county is not near the same as when he was there. Northerner immigration, liberal as Chapel Hill. Said if you walked down main street, you may not see a true local.
3. So you think NC, at least your area, is becoming more Jersey like in views? Dang.
 
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Rescue44

Twelve Pointer
Very true statement. I’m riding shotgun with my father in law right now traveling through Kansas on the way to Nebraska for some rabbit hunting. The landscape and human population here compared to NC is staggering!!! Simply put, there are TOO MANY people back home!! And it’s only going to get worst. The negative impact on wildlife will be seen for years to come. Maybe I should buy some land while I’m out here.
If you can, post some pics in the small game section. Since deer is out, first bunny day is tomorrow!! Can't wait!!
 

Rescue44

Twelve Pointer
I've known of a few tracks that have had separate leases. Deer, turkey, ducks. Deer dues ain't cheap, but not crazy, either.
 

Greg

Old Mossy Horns
2. God I hope not. Terrified you are correct. Liberal BS. Friend from Orange county, says that county is not near the same as when he was there. Northerner immigration, liberal as Chapel Hill. Said if you walked down main street, you main not see a true local.
3. So you think NC, at least your area, is becoming more Jersey like in views? Dang.
Not to worry ... the tarhole-ch.... are the heroes of the county. LOL :D
 

nchawkeye

Old Mossy Horns
Funny, we can blame a lot on displaced northerners...Back when I was with Deere, it was a reoccurring process...Someone would move down from up north, had sold their home for $x,xxx,xxx and would move down here, buy a small farm, then a tractor, mower, have a few cows, buy a mower conditioner, baler, etc...

I used to tell my dealers "If they are gonna live down here they need to pay", and they did... :)

Between Deere and now, I recruited medical device sales reps for 25 years, about this time of year the calls would come in..."I need to leave the north, tired of all the snow, find me a job in Raleigh or Charlotte"...In that 25 years I didn't place any down here...We did have plenty of doctors move here...I would help the local reps find a new company, not bring in new ones...Funny thing was, those northern doctors wanted to hunt, fish, farm, play golf, etc...And, they wanted reps that could talk the talk when in the OR...

We are in a growing state, I guess we need to take the good with the bad...l for one am glad that I own enough land and don't have to be looking to add...
 

Weekender

Twelve Pointer
I've known of a few tracks that have had separate leases. Deer, turkey, ducks. Deer dues ain't cheap, but not crazy, either.
In SC, it's not too uncommon for a landowner or lease holder to keep the spring gobbler season and/or ducks for himself and only sell deer season memberships. I even know a gent who sells deer/turkey memberships and keeps all hogs for himself. He gets along great with his deer hunters.
 

Packman

Button Buck
All the more reason for all of us to keep pushing and supporting our state and national forests to keep, preserve, and actually take care of our public lands. Another couple generations and that might be all we have left.
 

Loganwayne

Four Pointer
All the more reason for all of us to keep pushing and supporting our state and national forests to keep, preserve, and actually take care of our public lands. Another couple generations and that might be all we have left.
Problem I’ve been running into on federal, state and game lands non-hunters using the properties. That in its self not the problem, but being questioned what I’m doing and if it’s legal and they are call the police gets old. It seems to happen more after deer season (while I’m bird hunting) this could be a localized problem but with less hunter and more people coming to NC I can see the non hunters trying to pressure the gov. To not allow hunting on anything but game lands.


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oldest school

Old Mossy Horns
Problem I’ve been running into on federal, state and game lands non-hunters using the properties. That in its self not the problem, but being questioned what I’m doing and if it’s legal and they are call the police gets old. It seems to happen more after deer season (while I’m bird hunting) this could be a localized problem but with less hunter and more people coming to NC I can see the non hunters trying to pressure the gov. To not allow hunting on anything but game lands.


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you gotta watch those foreigners. :)
 

turkeyfoot

Old Mossy Horns
Problem I’ve been running into on federal, state and game lands non-hunters using the properties. That in its self not the problem, but being questioned what I’m doing and if it’s legal and they are call the police gets old. It seems to happen more after deer season (while I’m bird hunting) this could be a localized problem but with less hunter and more people coming to NC I can see the non hunters trying to pressure the gov. To not allow hunting on anything but game lands.


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I can't speak for other places but the Pisgah attracts some nutty fruits for sure. I went to spot last spring this plum crazy woman had string tied from tree across road to her van with Wal-Mart bags tied along it. Was road that went by gate she said her and her dogs were camping and no one was allowed to come through her site. She had no idea next day was opening of turkey season by time I explained to her that the area was about to be invaded by camo wearing gun toting rednecks she was gone by dark. She also told me she was calling cops I promptly offered her a phone
 

Loganwayne

Four Pointer
Problem I’ve been running into on federal, state and game lands non-hunters using the properties. That in its self not the problem, but being questioned what I’m doing and if it’s legal and they are call the police gets old. It seems to happen more after deer season (while I’m bird hunting) this could be a localized problem but with less hunter and more people coming to NC I can see the non hunters trying to pressure the gov. To not allow hunting on anything but game lands.


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I can't speak for other places but the Pisgah attracts some nutty fruits for sure. I went to spot last spring this plum crazy woman had string tied from tree across road to her van with Wal-Mart bags tied along it. Was road that went by gate she said her and her dogs were camping and no one was allowed to come through her site. She had no idea next day was opening of turkey season by time I explained to her that the area was about to be invaded by camo wearing gun toting rednecks she was gone by dark. She also told me she was calling cops I promptly offered her a phone
Pisgah is the worst. It’s getting bad even in Haywood county now. People just don’t have a clue. I’ve been asked if I have to pay extra to be allowed to hunt there. And why does my dog have an weird collar (Garmin tracking). I’ve had people try to take my dog last year because they said If I was a hunter I abused my dog.... I said listen lady that dog sleeps on my couch and I’ve got a gun you really wanna play this game?


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turkeyfoot

Old Mossy Horns
Pisgah is the worst. It’s getting bad even in Haywood county now. People just don’t have a clue. I’ve been asked if I have to pay extra to be allowed to hunt there. And why does my dog have an weird collar (Garmin tracking). I’ve had people try to take my dog last year because they said If I was a hunter I abused my dog.... I said listen lady that dog sleeps on my couch and I’ve got a gun you really wanna play this game?


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I don't have problem with people enjoying outdoors but I do have problem with dumb a$$ people in outdoors idiots like one trying take your dog need to never leave their WiFi
 

Loganwayne

Four Pointer
Pisgah is the worst. It’s getting bad even in Haywood county now. People just don’t have a clue. I’ve been asked if I have to pay extra to be allowed to hunt there. And why does my dog have an weird collar (Garmin tracking). I’ve had people try to take my dog last year because they said If I was a hunter I abused my dog.... I said listen lady that dog sleeps on my couch and I’ve got a gun you really wanna play this game?


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I don't have problem with people enjoying outdoors but I do have problem with dumb a$$ people in outdoors idiots like one trying take your dog need to never leave their WiFi
I’m with you, everyone has an equal right to public land it may be frustrating to hunters but it is what it is.

But don’t push your ideas on me and I won’t on you.

We hike all summer and run into all kinds of people that want to know what the collar is and say that’s pretty neat and go about their day.

Most of the time they can’t believe that he just doesn’t run off and never come back.



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JONOV

Ten Pointer
Pisgah is the worst. It’s getting bad even in Haywood county now. People just don’t have a clue. I’ve been asked if I have to pay extra to be allowed to hunt there. And why does my dog have an weird collar (Garmin tracking). I’ve had people try to take my dog last year because they said If I was a hunter I abused my dog.... I said listen lady that dog sleeps on my couch and I’ve got a gun you really wanna play this game?


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That's gotta be a Mountain Hippy thing.

I've walked my dog past two soccer moms walking the Goldendoodle while I was carrying a shotgun on Falls Lake in Wake Forest. I've tipped my hat at joggers on the road near Jordan Lake or Harris in Apex, Holly Springs, etc while I'm putting my blaze orange on. Never had a word other than "Get anything?"

And the collar thing...Have they never seen an invisible fence? Long before I ever hunted or knew much of anything about hunting, or dogs, my neighbors had the same collar for their Bichon and the invisible fence. I walk around Five Points or Oakwood in Raleigh and people have GSP's that have never seen a wild bird and likely never will and they have shock collars on, because (and this is a direct quote from one of the Lululemon wearing dog moms) "All the google image pictures show 'em wearing them and sometimes he ignores me when I tell him to come back."

I’ve been asked if I have to pay extra to be allowed to hunt there.
I've been asked that too and I answer honestly, "Yes, $5 when I buy my Sportsman's License."
 
Problem I’ve been running into on federal, state and game lands non-hunters using the properties. That in its self not the problem, but being questioned what I’m doing and if it’s legal and they are call the police gets old.

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I've never had an issue on the Jordan Gamelands yet thankfully, and there are some really rich people who live near the gamelands. I think just being polite and educating the public that hunters support conservation with our money really goes a long way with the ignorant people. Most people have no idea we support wildlife more than them...
 
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