Keatts vs cheats

oldest school

Old Mossy Horns
What? How did we get on ND in this thread. Back on task. Keatts lost to a better coach the other night. PNC arena should be named Roy's arena.
have you already forgot how this played out last year? state won in ch, unc in Raleigh.
If little doesn't get his head out of his behind, unc is doomed.
 

alt1001

Old Mossy Horns
The Notre Dame deal was/is stupid.

Either commit to the conference in ALL sports or go kick rocks.



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How so? Everyone was courting Notre Dame yet the ACC got the rights to 5 ACC football games per year and every sport outside of football. I also think that it's great foreshadowing on behalf of Swofford as I don't think ND will stay independent forever and the first place they're going to look is the conference they've already agreed to join. ND as it stands now without a conference, stands no chance of making the playoffs unless they go undefeated. Couple that with the fact that ND likely plays one of the toughest schedules year in and year out, and it simply isn't sustainable from a football standpoint.
 

lunker30

Twelve Pointer
The ACC made little effort to stop them and replaced them rather quickly with Louisville who has been more productive in the big 3 sports.
“Two months after adding Notre Dame, Maryland, citing the financial difficulties of its athletic department, announced its plans to join the Big Ten. Maryland was a charter member of the ACC, and its defection blindsided Swofford.

“A big shock,” he said.”

That’s the answer to his question.
 

alt1001

Old Mossy Horns
“Two months after adding Notre Dame, Maryland, citing the financial difficulties of its athletic department, announced its plans to join the Big Ten. Maryland was a charter member of the ACC, and its defection blindsided Swofford.

“A big shock,” he said.”

That’s the answer to his question.
What was he supposed to say? Good riddance? This is purely 'coach speak'. If you don't think he knew, I have some property in Arizona I'll sell you. I remember the summer of 2012, the ACC voted in a new exit fee. Wallace Loh was the largest vocal opposer to it. That fall, they announced they were leaving.

Swofford knew.
 

Homebrewale

Old Mossy Horns
First off, the ACC numbers are pre-network and the SEC #'s are post network. Second, those numbers from the SEC and Big Ten have long been called into question from a sustainability side. The SEC network alone has lost more than 8 million subscribers in the last 2 years. Third, the ACC network is expected to be valued near the top of ALL networks, an expectation that will boost school revenue by AT MINIMUM $10 million per school. That would blow the doors off the SEC's first year boost of $5m and would put yearly shares for each school at nearly $40m in year 1, placing it past the Pac-12 network and near the SEC in just one year! Give it 5 years and I would bet my bottom dollar that the ACC network will be valued higher than both the SEC network and Big Ten.
You failed to point out that the Big Ten also as a new network deal which will push per school revenue to $50 million which is $10 million more than your ACC number. I highly doubt that the ACC will be valued higher than the Big Ten in 5 years.

What attracts money to a network? Eyeballs as in number of fans. Looking at the football stadium sizes, the ACC is dead last among Power 5 conferences. SEC is number 1 for average size and Big Ten is number 2.

The next thing to look at is the alumni base. Yes, we have a number of non-alumni here pooping baby blue but it's the alumni that forms the base of the fans that watch the games. I can't find the conference average for number of alumni but I found one site that lists the top 15 universities based on number of living alumni. Nine Big Ten teams are in the top 15 and there is not one ACC team listed. So on the sustainability side, I'm not too concerned that the Big Ten teams can sustain their numbers and continue to dwarf the ACC.

https://www.cheatsheet.com/money-career/biggest-college-alumni-networks-in-us.html/
 

alt1001

Old Mossy Horns
You failed to point out that the Big Ten also as a new network deal which will push per school revenue to $50 million which is $10 million more than your ACC number. I highly doubt that the ACC will be valued higher than the Big Ten in 5 years.

What attracts money to a network? Eyeballs as in number of fans. Looking at the football stadium sizes, the ACC is dead last among Power 5 conferences. SEC is number 1 for average size and Big Ten is number 2.

The next thing to look at is the alumni base. Yes, we have a number of non-alumni here pooping baby blue but it's the alumni that forms the base of the fans that watch the games.
I didn't fail to point it out, I chose not to because we weren't discussing it at the time. As for the BTN network, it should be handing out the most $$$ as it was the trail blazer for conference networks. If I remember correctly the very first game ever broadcast on the BTN network was Appalachian beating Michigan in 2007. That was nearly 12 years ago so to point out that right now it is able to pay more money than anyone else, is not really news. One thing to note however is that the SEC Network was valued last summer at 4x that of the BTN network despite the payouts, so to think the ACC Network might be valued higher, is not that far of a stretch, especially 5 years down the road. Simply put the ACC has a much larger national presence in the big 3 sports.

https://www.orlandosentinel.com/sports/college/college-gridiron-365/os-sp-sec-network-ranked-highest-in-value-20170506-story.html

Yes eyeballs attract money to the network and one BIG point that you missed is that the ACC is the largest conference in the nation and has the largest population base in it's footprint when you factor how many states and large metropolitan areas the conference compasses up and down the east coast. So yes, eyeballs do attract money and the ACC is HUGE and it has absolutely ZERO to do with the alumni base. Zilch. College sports (not just college football like you have mentioned) has not grown into a multi-billion $$$ industry because of alumni and alumni alone. Not even close. A couple years ago, SB Nation set out to do a study on how many fans of colleges actually went to school at that college. They did so by taking a poll on the official Facebook pages for each school's athletic teams. They wanted to know, out of how many people who liked the page, actually went to school there. The numbers were overwhelming. For UNC it was only 5%. Notre Dame only 4%. UGA only 7%. Florida 8%. Oregon 7%. Only one team had a ratio over 50% and that was Texas A&M. Now I get that there are some flaws in this study, every study has flaws, but I don't think those flaws like say alums who don't have Facebook, are going to change the outcome much because they'll simply be offset by those non-alums who didn't vote either. The point is, alums may donate the most money to the individual schools but the industry, especially from a TV standpoint, is dominated by non-alums.

As for the ACC being dead last in stadium capacity, they are actually 3rd in football viewership overall (factoring in butts in seats and butts on couches). It would be interesting to note football/basketball combined.

1547143854044.png
 

Homebrewale

Old Mossy Horns
So even by your numbers, the ACC is a distant third. They must be doing something wrong if as you say they have the largest population footprint, yet still can't attract the viewers with smaller footprints.
 

alt1001

Old Mossy Horns
So even by your numbers, the ACC is a distant third. They must be doing something wrong if as you say they have the largest population footprint, yet still can't attract the viewers with smaller footprints.
You can't attract any footprint if you're limited to what you can offer them. Isn't that the entire context of what we're discussing? That the 2 above them have networks and the ACC doesn't as of now, hence reasoning for the number difference?
 

Homebrewale

Old Mossy Horns
Isn't that the entire context of what we're discussing? That the 2 above them have networks and the ACC doesn't, hence reasoning for the number difference?
If your statistics meant a difference, then the ACC is poorly led if they could not leverage their numbers into a new network with more income than the SEC and Big Ten.

Yes eyeballs attract money to the network and one BIG point that you missed is that the ACC is the largest conference in the nation and has the largest population base in it's footprint when you factor how many states and large metropolitan areas the conference compasses up and down the east coast.
There are lies, damned lies and statistics.

It's a joke to attribute a whole state population to each team. There are several examples. The largest example is PA. To say the ACC and Big Ten share that state equally is ludicrous. Nobody outside of Pittsburgh cares about Pitt. Penn State dominates the state and will continue to do so. Florida, Georgia, South Carolina and Kentucky are shared by the SEC and ACC. To put the whole population under the ACC footprint is just silly. Even when there is no overlap, it wouldn't be correct to attribute the whole state population to the one particular school. NY has 8 million more residents than OH but I would speculate OH attracts a far higher percentage of the state population as fans than Syracuse does in NY.

Then you really need to separate the sports. There is a huge difference there. In football, nobody really cares much nationally about ACC teams except Clemson. If there was an equal season record and similar ranking between Ohio State, Penn State, Michigan and UNC for an invitation to a bowl game, UNC would be the last team the bowl would consider. Duke, even with its latest decent seasons, probably has zero following outside of NC.

In basketball, the ACC has higher profile teams with UNC and Duke. Beyond that, I doubt any of the other teams in either conference attract many fans outside their alumni base.
 

oldest school

Old Mossy Horns
If your statistics meant a difference, then the ACC is poorly led if they could not leverage their numbers into a new network with more income than the SEC and Big Ten.



There are lies, damned lies and statistics.

It's a joke to attribute a whole state population to each team. There are several examples. The largest example is PA. To say the ACC and Big Ten share that state equally is ludicrous. Nobody outside of Pittsburgh cares about Pitt. Penn State dominates the state and will continue to do so. Florida, Georgia, South Carolina and Kentucky are shared by the SEC and ACC. To put the whole population under the ACC footprint is just silly. Even when there is no overlap, it wouldn't be correct to attribute the whole state population to the one particular school. NY has 8 million more residents than OH but I would speculate OH attracts a far higher percentage of the state population as fans than Syracuse does in NY.

Then you really need to separate the sports. There is a huge difference there. In football, nobody really cares much nationally about ACC teams except Clemson. If there was an equal season record and similar ranking between Ohio State, Penn State, Michigan and UNC for an invitation to a bowl game, UNC would be the last team the bowl would consider. Duke, even with its latest decent seasons, probably has zero following outside of NC.

In basketball, the ACC has higher profile teams with UNC and Duke. Beyond that, I doubt any of the other teams in either conference attract many fans outside their alumni base.
I may not understand your last statement.
Are you saying that besides duke and unc no teams in the sec, big ten or acc have fan bases past their alums?
 

BoonDock

Twelve Pointer
Contributor
Thank you.

I've never understood the "your titles were 40 years ago"...

So?

State wasn't a great job under Gott. Keatts took the job and is making it good. If he keeps winning, he can make it a great job. Personally, I don't see him leaving anytime soon. A blue blood job is open right now. Keatts name has been floated around it, but he's not taking it.

It's a place where championships have been won. They've got the third most ACC titles. That's much different than a place where championships haven't been won.

Clemson football is a prime example. They last won a title (that was surrounded in cheating) in 1981. They haven't been much in the national picture before Dabo took over. Now he's turned them into arguably the top program in college football.

It can be done.

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UCLA isn’t a blue blood job. Want to talk about being irrelevant, wow! That’s a step back from coaching in the ACC.
 

All Pines

Eight Pointer
ok.
this thread is heading south anyway.
Do you really believe the "swofford wants unc to win" or are you just stirring with those takes.
It's pretty work either way.
swoffy graduated from unc, was a letterman at unc, and was an athletic director at unc for 20 years. he also very successfully engineered the unc athletics “machine”. Furthermore, swoffy has donated $ to unc athletics and academics.

This presents a conflict of interest, with him serving as ACC commissioner and unc bing a member institution.

Prove that he isn’t biased🙂

His integrity is tarnished bc the “classes” started, expanded, perpetuated, and flourished under his watch.

I don’t question swoffy’s ability (very smart, morehead scholar).
 

Mack in N.C.

Old Mossy Horns
Lets get back on Topic. Unc beat state and UNC actually did not play that well. fans were complaining that UNC was ranked higher and it wasn't deserved. Sure it was, state has played a cupcake schedule and has not beat a decent team.
 

All Pines

Eight Pointer
Lets get back on Topic. Unc beat state and UNC actually did not play that well. fans were complaining that UNC was ranked higher and it wasn't deserved. Sure it was, state has played a cupcake schedule and has not beat a decent team.
unc also didn’t play that well against Texas, Kentucky, and someone else. I suspect that they won’t that play well against Duke, Virginia, VT, NCSU again, and a handful of other games.

This will be another 10+ loss season for them

The cheats beat keatts the first game and earned a win. And after their initial 12-0 blitz, they were outscored and outplayed. True, the final score is what matters most, but be careful playing with fools gold.
 

oldest school

Old Mossy Horns
Lets get back on Topic. Unc beat state and UNC actually did not play that well. fans were complaining that UNC was ranked higher and it wasn't deserved. Sure it was, state has played a cupcake schedule and has not beat a decent team.
just for the record, state was ranked higher in the only rankings that matter. The NET NCAA metrics.
State was favored by the only knowledgeable handicappers around, vegas.

that was a bad loss for state and a good road steal for unc.
 

BigBuckDown

Old Mossy Horns
Lets get back on Topic. Unc beat state and UNC actually did not play that well. fans were complaining that UNC was ranked higher and it wasn't deserved. Sure it was, state has played a cupcake schedule and has not beat a decent team.
just for the record, state was ranked higher in the only rankings that matter. The NET NCAA metrics.
State was favored by the only knowledgeable handicappers around, vegas.

that was a bad loss for state and a good road steal for unc.
Yes, you are correct.

I wouldn't call it a bad loss, but it's a game State should have won. It's certainly a very good win by unc.

As far as State not having any good wins. I'd certainly put Auburn as a good win, Vanderbilt and Penn State as solid wins.

State is back at home tomorrow against Pitt.

With a few favorable games in a row (Pitt, at WF, at ND, at Louisville, Clemson) this is a chance for State to assert themselves as an upper echelon team in the ACC.

#KKIAW

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alt1001

Old Mossy Horns
If they could not leverage their numbers into a new network with more income than the SEC and Big Ten.
Again, isn't that exactly what they're doing and isn't the ACC projected to have the highest payouts of any network in year 1? You're talking in circles on things we've already discussed.


It's a joke to attribute a whole state population to each team. There are several examples. The largest example is PA. To say the ACC and Big Ten share that state equally is ludicrous. Nobody outside of Pittsburgh cares about Pitt. Penn State dominates the state and will continue to do so. Florida, Georgia, South Carolina and Kentucky are shared by the SEC and ACC. To put the whole population under the ACC footprint is just silly. Even when there is no overlap, it wouldn't be correct to attribute the whole state population to the one particular school. NY has 8 million more residents than OH but I would speculate OH attracts a far higher percentage of the state population as fans than Syracuse does in NY.
We're talking about TV markets, not fandom Homebrew. I agree with you but in regards to subscriptions, just as we all get the SECN and Big Ten Network here in NC for no reason whatsoever, these states will garner a TV audience and WILL be factored in to the media footprint when actual schools from the conference reside in said states. Notre Dame alone likely garners more football fans in the Northeast than ANY other team and despite their partial involvement in the ACC, the ACCN does get rights to their away games as NBC gets all the rights to Irish home games. You're trying to parse things that don't need to be. Simply put the overall media footprint for the ACC TODAY (not yesteryear when most of these networks were being established) is bigger than any conference in the country.
 

NCST8GUY

Frozen H20 Guy
A game of missed opportunities for State.

State turned unc over at will but couldn't convert at the rim. Lots of missed chippies.

State could never get over the hump. Got close but then got careless with the ball.

State is going to win a lot of games. Keatts is the real deal. I don't see him leaving anytime soon. State can be a big time job.

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Bla bla bla State loss = HUGE win for State!!! lol
 

Papa_Smurf

Ten Pointer
Contributor
keatts wont put up with that dirty play bs like duke did.
walker is gone.
saving swofford the trouble of suspending him.
It was stupid and definitely intentional.

idk about him being gone, but i definitely think that Keatts handles it.

This is his first offense, correct?

I definitely think he is gone if it happens again, and i would agree with that decision.
 

BigBuckDown

Old Mossy Horns
keatts wont put up with that dirty play bs like duke did.
walker is gone.
saving swofford the trouble of suspending him.
It was stupid and definitely intentional.

idk about him being gone, but i definitely think that Keatts handles it.

This is his first offense, correct?

I definitely think he is gone if it happens again, and i would agree with that decision.
No problem with the ejection.

But why no technical on the Pitt player? Seems he instigated it.

The officials were horrible today.

But glad to see unc get run outta their own building.

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BigBuckDown

Old Mossy Horns
I hope nothing other than running his butt off in practice.



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if Luke maye had pulled that stunt in Raleigh last week what would you think should be done?
It was a reaction to that guy intentionally dragging his foot over his leg. Walker grabbed his foot to get him off of him.

While it was very wrong for him to do that, it wasn't an action unprovoked.

I don't think it deserves any more than to be handled internally.

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oldest school

Old Mossy Horns
It was a reaction to that guy intentionally dragging his foot over his leg. Walker grabbed his foot to get him off of him.

While it was very wrong for him to do that, it wasn't an action unprovoked.

I don't think it deserves any more than to be handled internally.

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but you still haven't answered the question. Ok for Luke to do this in Raleigh? Same response from you?
My bias is that we pound the hell out of these when the other team does it.
But it's ok when our guy does it.
walker may get a pass but you can bet it'll be another negative for state with the rest of the acc fan base.
Reason does not apply.
 

BigBuckDown

Old Mossy Horns
It was a reaction to that guy intentionally dragging his foot over his leg. Walker grabbed his foot to get him off of him.

While it was very wrong for him to do that, it wasn't an action unprovoked.

I don't think it deserves any more than to be handled internally.

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but you still haven't answered the question. Ok for Luke to do this in Raleigh? Same response from you?
My bias is that we pound the hell out of these when the other team does it.
But it's ok when our guy does it.
walker may get a pass but you can bet it'll be another negative for state with the rest of the acc fan base.
Reason does not apply.
How many times was Grayson Allen ejected or suspended for tripping?

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