Just wishful thinking

Zach's Grandpa

Old Mossy Horns
I’m not a biologist, I’m not a wildlife management expert. I am a hunter with 70 years of experience hunting and observing animals in the wild. If told that I could only hunt one species for the rest of my life I would choose the wild turkey without hesitation. That’s why I care and that’s why I have major concern over how NC wildlife officials don’t seem to be interested in taking measures to preserve the flock. Continuing to base all regulations on total harvest will eventually eliminate hunting in some areas.

Youth season should start the first Saturday in April and last for three days. Regular season should start the second Saturday in April and end the first Saturday in May. The state should be divided into three regions. Coastal, Piedmont, Mountains. The Piedmont and Mountain region limits should be reduced to one bird for two seasons and then reevaluated. A turkey tag should be required to be purchased from nonresident hunters as other states require.

As stated it’s wishful thinking but if you agree then at least we are on record as having said it.
 

wolfman

Old Mossy Horns
I don't have an issue with your proposal but disagree on three regions with different harvests. It would put more pressure on the Coastal region and put it in the same situation you are trying to avoid in the Piedmont & Mountains, if those areas are in that shape.
 

buckshooter

Old Mossy Horns
I’m not a biologist, I’m not a wildlife management expert. I am a hunter with 70 years of experience hunting and observing animals in the wild. If told that I could only hunt one species for the rest of my life I would choose the wild turkey without hesitation. That’s why I care and that’s why I have major concern over how NC wildlife officials don’t seem to be interested in taking measures to preserve the flock. Continuing to base all regulations on total harvest will eventually eliminate hunting in some areas.

Youth season should start the first Saturday in April and last for three days. Regular season should start the second Saturday in April and end the first Saturday in May. The state should be divided into three regions. Coastal, Piedmont, Mountains. The Piedmont and Mountain region limits should be reduced to one bird for two seasons and then reevaluated. A turkey tag should be required to be purchased from nonresident hunters as other states require.

As stated it’s wishful thinking but if you agree then at least we are on record as having said it.

Agreed 100 %
 

slugoo

Eight Pointer
I would like to have a 2 bird limit with only one being allowed per region, or maybe per county? I agree with everything else though.
 

bhwaugh1

Six Pointer
I would like to have a 2 bird limit with only one being allowed per region, or maybe per county? I agree with everything else though.

Disagree with the per region comment; however, I would be fine with per county. I’ve seen other states do per county.
 

timber

Twelve Pointer
Why not just make it simple if you want to start changing rules. Have it where you could only big game hunt in the county you live in. Would solve alot of problems one being hunting lease prices would level off. But that would never happen so i dont see a need to change rules for the whole state. If there is truly a turkey shortage in a certain county close the season in that county. No need to go messing with countys that have plenty
 

NCST8GUY

Frozen H20 Guy
I don't want to see a season closed anywhere. Like your oldtimer friend stated, we never know when it'll be our last turkey season. I wouldn't freak out if in certain areas with noticeable decline, they changed the limit to odd years 1, even years 2, for maybe 6 years and then re evaluate.
 

turkeyfoot

Old Mossy Horns
No way I'd go for 1 bird limit and I hunt the region with lowest population and harvest 2 bird limit is fine. Only things I'd like see is youth be wknd only and if they wanted start season week later I'd for sure go for that just for biology reasons taking into account I hunt mtns this week woulda been perfect
 

oldest school

Old Mossy Horns
My wishful thinking on regs-
Limit youth week to a youth weekend.
Imitate SC and Missouri and only allow one bird the first ten days of the season.
Develop county specific seasons if needed. We had those early on- no reason not to review that process.

Some gaps in my understanding that I wish to close.
Why dont areas repopulate from adjacent flocks? Use caswell as the example. What keeps expansion from occurring. Why dont the dan river birds spread out?
What are states doing in the southeast to reestablish turkeys if anything?
What does the NWTF have to say? Resting on laurels or trying to help?

And an observation- All the NCWRC staff is easy to contact. I suggest that those of you with specific concerns discuss them with somebody that might actually help versus the crowd here that will just argue or agree but cant really do chit.
 

huntngolf

Six Pointer
I think good idea with regions but agree that would be very difficult to change and enforce. I hunt in Virginia and it's tough to know their seasons with deer hunting but they have been that way since I can remember.
I think the best thing that NC can do is cut youth season to a weekend and end hunting at noon till the last week and that would go a long ways.
I don't hunt in the east and can't speak to what they have going on right now but northern piedmont is struggling with numbers right now and I hate to say but see it continuing unless something changes.
 

gobbler

Eight Pointer
They have the state cut all up into different regions for deer, why not turkeys as well, if there truly looking after there best interest, I get it, but what I dont think a lot of people understand about the fine folks in the wildlife is that very few give a dang or will take the time to come out of the air conditioned office to do anything, they wanna treat turkeys like well we let a few out, we’re done,hope it works out, our data shows it is so what more do we need, you people hunting public land are to ignorant to know what your talking about

I was actually talking to an retired game warden yesterday, we were talking about turkeys and he brought up his little piece of heaven, said he used to have a pile of birds in it, had never killed one there, his land backed up to a very large tract that didn’t allow hunting and said that now he doesn’t see any birds at allthere, fall or spring nor on his cameras and we got to talking about why, and if they could disappear in a prime piece with corn, clover and chufa and everything a turkey could ever want then there had to be something very real going on with this decline, what I’m getting at is that predators/egg eaters are mainly getting the young, but that wouldn’t explain the decline of the established current flock especially with no Hunting going on, I’m not sure if it’s a disease or a culmination of a lot of things, a perfect turkey storm so to speak
 

Brad_Colvin

Eight Pointer
I personally don't think here in NC anyway that the turkey problem is due to over harvest from hunting. I think the problem is habitat and farming practices. The vast majority of the states turkeys live on private land. I would like to see the conservation groups get together and find a way to give private landowners incentives to produce better habitat on their land. I know it's a pipe dream but I think that's the way to help the wild turkey.
 

Ol Copper

Twelve Pointer
Some gaps in my understanding that I wish to close.
Why dont areas repopulate from adjacent flocks? Use caswell as the example. What keeps expansion from occurring. Why dont the dan river birds spread out?

Some of my questions as well.
I can use a specific 350 acre piece in Yancey Co. as an example also.
Man has a piece of property there that he lets me hunt. Prime place with everything a bird could want. Good year round food sources, water, secure roosting sites, great nesting and brood range for poult rearing. It really looks like a piece of heaven, except for no birds.

I can get up high in the morning and hear birds on other properties for quite a fair distance. Turkeys surround this property on all sides, not in huge numbers but I can hear 7-8 different toms on a good morning. In all fairness, the property that I can hunt is in better shape than the others that surround it but the turkeys absolutely will not, under any circumstance, spend any significant time on this property.

I caught 1 tom roosted in there 1 time about 3 years ago with a hen, they flew down and immediately walked over the ridge onto the next property. Never heard or seen one there before or since.....completely baffles me as to why birds will not expand further out across the whole river drainage these properties all lie in.
 

stilker

Old Mossy Horns
Some of my questions as well.
I can use a specific 350 acre piece in Yancey Co. as an example also.
Man has a piece of property there that he lets me hunt. Prime place with everything a bird could want. Good year round food sources, water, secure roosting sites, great nesting and brood range for poult rearing. It really looks like a piece of heaven, except for no birds.

I can get up high in the morning and hear birds on other properties for quite a fair distance. Turkeys surround this property on all sides, not in huge numbers but I can hear 7-8 different toms on a good morning. In all fairness, the property that I can hunt is in better shape than the others that surround it but the turkeys absolutely will not, under any circumstance, spend any significant time on this property.

I caught 1 tom roosted in there 1 time about 3 years ago with a hen, they flew down and immediately walked over the ridge onto the next property. Never heard or seen one there before or since.....completely baffles me as to why birds will not expand further out across the whole river drainage these properties all lie in.
Clean out some of the nest predators and see if that helps
 

30/06

Twelve Pointer
I don’t think hunting is the cause of the decline. Could be wrong. I’d suggest the biologists find out what is causing the decline. I see a few less gobblers all year than I used to but I see about 1/4 of the hens I did 10 years ago. Hens make baby turkeys. Like deer one gobbler can sire a lot of little ones.

Understanding why the population is declining is the key to solving the problem imho.
 
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bowhuntingrook

Old Mossy Horns
I don't see any decline on a 200 acre property in Granville I've hunted for 10 years and I've shot 10 toms there. I know of atleast 5 others killed by hunters on the property in the same timeframe. I've never found a nest there. Make sure you know what the neighbors are doing.
 

Cam

Four Pointer
The 2 bird limit has been around long as i can remember. Back when there werent turkeys anywhere it was 2 birds and we would drive at least a hour to hunt where you might hear one gobble all season. Now there are turkeys everywhere the population has exploded. With that all the deer hunters now are turkey hunters too because they can sit in there blinds and bushwack birds. Im excited the population is doing so well because its fun to hunt where there are birds. But sometimes i wish there werent as many the woods werent nearly as crowded then anyway. But i just cant see where all the big worry is about running out of turkeys most of the ones not able to get on birds should get out from behind the computer and go hunting.
 

shotgunner

Ten Pointer
I do believe the state should look at regions. No way I think the turkey flock today can be managed exactly the same across the entire state. I know I'm being selfish but I really do not want to see the limit dropped to one. I just hope they use "good science" to make the decisions.
 

woodmoose

Administrator
Staff member
Contributor
Some of my questions as well.
I can use a specific 350 acre piece in Yancey Co. as an example also.
Man has a piece of property there that he lets me hunt. Prime place with everything a bird could want. Good year round food sources, water, secure roosting sites, great nesting and brood range for poult rearing. It really looks like a piece of heaven, except for no birds.

I can get up high in the morning and hear birds on other properties for quite a fair distance. Turkeys surround this property on all sides, not in huge numbers but I can hear 7-8 different toms on a good morning. In all fairness, the property that I can hunt is in better shape than the others that surround it but the turkeys absolutely will not, under any circumstance, spend any significant time on this property.

I caught 1 tom roosted in there 1 time about 3 years ago with a hen, they flew down and immediately walked over the ridge onto the next property. Never heard or seen one there before or since.....completely baffles me as to why birds will not expand further out across the whole river drainage these properties all lie in.


that's cause they know you're hunting them,,, the birds are too scared to hang around!!
 

woodmoose

Administrator
Staff member
Contributor
, said he used to have a pile of birds in it, had never killed one there, his land backed up to a very large tract that didn’t allow hunting and said that now he doesn’t see any birds at allthere, fall or spring nor on his cameras and we got to talking about why, and if they could disappear in a prime piece with corn, clover and chufa and everything a turkey could ever want then there had to be something very real going on with this decline, what I’m getting at is that predators/egg eaters are mainly getting the young, but that wouldn’t explain the decline of the established current flock especially with no Hunting going on, I’m not sure if it’s a disease or a culmination of a lot of things, a perfect turkey storm so to speak


over what time span?

I would expect that the habitat has changed,,, it's subtle over time,, folks don't realize it,,, but 10 years (or more) things can change if they haven't been managing the habitat effectively,,,

fort Bragg is a prime example,,, in the 80s you hesitated to drive over 35 on the range roads at night for fear of hitting the numerous deer,,, not anymore,,, habitat has changed (in support of the "endangered" red cockaded woodpecker),,,,
 

woodmoose

Administrator
Staff member
Contributor
Why dont areas repopulate from adjacent flocks? Use caswell as the example. What keeps expansion from occurring. Why dont the dan river birds spread out?

that's a good one,,, the birds local here expanded from reintroductions from Ft Bragg and a few larger farms,,, it is a wonder they don't expand now,,, habitat maybe???

What are states doing in the southeast to reestablish turkeys if anything?

good one as well,, I expect the "restocking" isn't on the table any time soon

What does the NWTF have to say? Resting on laurels or trying to help?

bwahahahhahaha

laurels,,,, and asking for donations,,,, though I do like my seed "allotment",,,,,,


And an observation- All the NCWRC staff is easy to contact. I suggest that those of you with specific concerns discuss them with somebody that might actually help versus the crowd here that will just argue or agree but cant really do chit.

exactly,,,, since folks have all the answers they should use their influence with the commission instead of us miscreants!!
 

tk26

Six Pointer
Everyone talks about youth week like it is going to be the end of turkeys in NC. Just curious if anyone knows the breakdown on harvest numbers for youth week vs total turkey harvest for the year. And then what is the the breakdown on harvest for the weekend vs the week? I haven’t dug into it (I will). Just wondering why everyone is so against a full week for the youth.

edited:
2020 total harvest in NC 23,431 (includes youth week) with 2,763 being harvested during youth week.
 
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Firedog

Old Mossy Horns
Contributor
Not an Isolated NC problem, happening in a lot of places and I don't think hunting is the issue. Properties we hunt in NE that used to hold literally hundreds of birds.. (have seen 30+ toms on the same hill side of a morning and who knows how many hens) are now devoid of birds, and it is not hunting that caused that. Other properties that the farmers were begging us to kill them a few years ago, we can't even hunt now because of lack of birds.. one farmer had winter flocks of 500+ in his feed lots for years.. this year he said he had less than 100 and when they split up this spring he rarely sees or hears a bird.. 5 years ago you could not walk 50ft w/o bumping a turkey. Funny thing is, on those properties, there has been no appreciable change in habitat or farming practices or predators over the years.

In Orange County here, we noticed a decline in population when they started the solid waste spreading program, no idea if that has any cause/effect relationship, just an observation. In NE I wonder if chemical adjustments to fertilizer etc may be harming the birds..

As for limit changes.. not sure I really see the benefit.. if the seasons are set up correctly timing wise.. I know ZG has talked about Caswell being a turkey desert.. well if there are no birds, the limit could be 50 and it won't matter, if they ain't there they ain't getting killed. (the absurdity of the point is on purpose). I would like to see Youth season ELIMINATED completely. Any open season day is youth day if one will simply take a youth. You can solve for the public land issue through permit priority for youth. Otherwise set the seasons to a scientifically verifiable time period AFTER most of the breeding has taken place and let it ride. Moving the pressure to other parts of the state has no real benefit that I can see.
 

Castle Oak 2

Six Pointer
As Oldest School suggested, give Chris Kreh, the Upland Game Bird Biologist, a call. He's a great guy who's been with the WRC for many years. I guarantee you he will shed some light on most of the misconceptions stated in this thread.
WRC biologists are the most dedicated folks I have ever had the opportunity to work with. I was a WRC wildlife biologist for 32 years so I know of what I speak. When someone states that WRC employees don't care and all they do is sit around in air conditioned offices thinking of ways to screw up your hunting, I get pissed off. I'll excuse your ignorance once, but not the second time. So, before you condemn these folks, give them a call. You can find their contact information on the ncwrc website under contacts.
 

Firedog

Old Mossy Horns
Contributor
Everyone talks about youth week like it is going to be the end of turkeys in NC. Just curious if anyone knows the breakdown on harvest numbers for youth week vs total turkey harvest for the year. And then what is the the breakdown on harvest for the weekend vs the week? I haven’t dug into it (I will). Just wondering why everyone is so against a full week for the youth.
Its too early and UNNECESSARY. Just an excuse not to take kids the rest of the season for some and an excuse to hunt early for others and claim youth kills.
 

tk26

Six Pointer
Its too early and UNNECESSARY. Just an excuse not to take kids the rest of the season for some and an excuse to hunt early for others and claim youth kills.
Thats my point. No one argues that is is detrimental to the population. So why does it need to be changed.
 

oldest school

Old Mossy Horns
Everyone talks about youth week like it is going to be the end of turkeys in NC. Just curious if anyone knows the breakdown on harvest numbers for youth week vs total turkey harvest for the year. And then what is the the breakdown on harvest for the weekend vs the week? I haven’t dug into it (I will). Just wondering why everyone is so against a full week for the youth.

edited:
2020 total harvest in NC 23,431 (includes youth week) with 2,763 being harvested during youth week.
two reasons for me. One bio and one personal opinion.
It is a known avenue for widespread poaching. As an example-The first year of real time reported harvest Chatham county had just a few birds reported. I heard more turkeys that were killed in Church Sunday morning than had been reported for the whole county. The three yr old kills and the scalawags adults killing just because they can get by with it -ruin it. Plus a week of early season for "youths" that can drive is not the intent of a youth week.

Biologically speaking early season harvest is being looked at strongly as a negative. Turkeys are too vulnerable to our tools and the deal with the alpha turkey being killed disrupting the mating pattern has merit with some fine biologists. Charles Ruth in SC being one. Thus his reg for one turkey the first ten days.

That's my reasoning. OMWV.
 
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