Is there a difference in 209 Primers

valetroutfisherman

Ten Pointer
Im shooting a Traditions Pursuit G4 .50, 100g charge. Using Hodgdon Pyrodex 50g pellets.
I was running short on 209 primers. I am using the Winchester 777 muzzleloading primers, what i have left. I started online shopping for some and every site, i found is "out of stock" for any brand of muzzleloader primers.
Local outdoor store, in Cherryville, had some CCI Magnum Shotshell primers.
Will 209 shotshell primers work, magnum or regular. Or will they affect pellet burn and Sabot trajectory.

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Eric Revo

Old Mossy Horns
Contributor
The higher powered primers can move your pellets forward and affect accuracy..or so I've read. I've not used pellets with the regular primers so I'm not speaking from experience.
I use a very hot primer for BH209 but that's powder so it's a bit different.
 

nchawkeye

Old Mossy Horns
Remember, when you are shooting a muzzleloader you are hand loading every shot....If you change anything, you should check your accuracy and zero...

Now, I would get away from pellets, you will probably find greater accuracy by measuring powder....
 

Redheadduck

Eight Pointer
For years I shot Winchester 209 primers with pyrodex pellets. When I switched to 777 I started using 777 primers. I've heard that the magnum primers jar the powder forward as stated above. I would check your zero if you plan to switch.
 

Papa_Smurf

Twelve Pointer
Contributor
i'm curious about how they can jar the powder forward when you cram a bullet down onto the powder and pack it down via ramrod.

also, think about smokeless cartridges....take your old core-lokt load cartridge and shake it at your ear. you'll hear the powder shaking around inside the brass.
 

valetroutfisherman

Ten Pointer
ML primers are the weakest of the 209 primers and most expensive. Yes standard and magnum 209 primers work fine. Get those magnum primers and Blackhorn 209 powder and you'll never shoot pellets again [emoji6]
On hand, have the GOEX FFG. I purchase it from Ledford's in Hickory. Using loose powder i can get above 100g for the recomended projectile loads.
Right now im using the Smackdown Bleed 170g (specs 115g powder) and the Carnavore 250g (specs 120g powder).
I know they are pricey per round, bleed: $1.66 ea & carn: $1.43 ea.
I have briefly read a couple threads on projectiles and blood trails, will havevto read more indepth.

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Redheadduck

Eight Pointer
i'm curious about how they can jar the powder forward when you cram a bullet down onto the powder and pack it down via ramrod.

also, think about smokeless cartridges....take your old core-lokt load cartridge and shake it at your ear. you'll hear the powder shaking around inside the brass.
I can't see how it would jar it either, but I've read it and been told about it. As tight as a modern soboted bullet seats, it's hard for me to believe it.
 

45/70 hunter

Old Mossy Horns
Contributor
Blackhorn 209 powder, max load for guns having a 150 maximun load is 120 grain.

Weight to volume conversion for Blackhorn 209 powder:

grains by weight: 56 - 63 - 70 - 77 - 84
grains by volume 80 - 90 - 100 - 110 - 120
 

Banjo

Old Mossy Horns
You'll love it!! Easy cleanup and you can tailor your loads. Lots of guys, me included, weigh charges instead of going by volume.

I have been using white hots, Hornady 250 grain Sabot's and Remington Klean Bore 209 Primers. It is not nearly as accurate as I would like it to be.
 

firedawg60

Twelve Pointer
This is a good post. I have a CVA Optima V2 that I have been thinking about changing over to Blackhorn 209.
Make sure you get a CVA, Blackhorn, or Lehigh breech plug. With that said, I would wait to switch as Hodgdon purchased BH from Western Powders. At the moment no one seems to know if Hodgdon will continue to produce it, and if they do, at what price. I have been starting to look at other options, but otherwise I love BH209.
 

Banjo

Old Mossy Horns
Make sure you get a CVA, Blackhorn, or Lehigh breech plug. With that said, I would wait to switch as Hodgdon purchased BH from Western Powders. At the moment no one seems to know if Hodgdon will continue to produce it, and if they do, at what price. I have been starting to look at other options, but otherwise I love BH209.

Thank you sir. That is good information.
 

Eric Revo

Old Mossy Horns
Contributor
There is a big difference in the two.
you can drill yours out, but for the price I just bought one. It gives the breechplug a powder well. BH209 takes a hot spark to geterdun...but once she's lit she's outathere like nitro powder with no hesitation. The increased pressures are what give the better performance, the fact that it makes a bit of greasy residue is just a bonus. It cleans up with any decent bore cleaner really easily.
 

firedawg60

Twelve Pointer
Thank you sir. That is good information.
It kind of sucks that Hodgdon now has the market cornered on BP substitutes that are good. I will most likely go to real black if BH is no longer available or more crazy priced than it currently is.
 

CutNRun

Ten Pointer
Contributor
Once you load your rifle, back the breech plug out and put 3-4 flakes of red dot powder on top of your black powder. She'll fire, no matter what kind of primer & powder your shooting. That red dot burns hot and a few flakes isn't enough to increase pressures or cause damage to the rifle.

Jim
 

Mack in N.C.

Old Mossy Horns
Primer can make a difference..not 209's but back in the day RWS no 11 primers in the red tin were better than
CCI and other brands. hotter for sure.
 

georgeeebuck

Ten Pointer
you can drill yours out, but for the price I just bought one. It gives the breechplug a powder well. BH209 takes a hot spark to geterdun...but once she's lit she's outathere like nitro powder with no hesitation. The increased pressures are what give the better performance, the fact that it makes a bit of greasy residue is just a bonus. It cleans up with any decent bore cleaner really easily.
PSA:::You better know what the heck you are doing before you drill any breechplug. You may end up eating that primer .
 

Papa_Smurf

Twelve Pointer
Contributor
i'm using BH209 in my Traditions with the factory breech plug. Not drilled out, and not designed for BH209 powder.

I use Cheddite Primers (supposedly a little hotter than normal) and have enjoyed a 100% ignition rate.
 

Eric Revo

Old Mossy Horns
Contributor
PSA:::You better know what the heck you are doing before you drill any breechplug. You may end up eating that primer .
My response was to Banjo, he very well knows what he's doing and has the resources to do it correctly...but please carry on.
It's not a tough job and easily accomplished by anyone with a drill press, the correct sized bit and an instrument to measure depth of the powder well.
 

Eric Revo

Old Mossy Horns
Contributor
i'm using BH209 in my Traditions with the factory breech plug. Not drilled out, and not designed for BH209 powder.

I use Cheddite Primers (supposedly a little hotter than normal) and have enjoyed a 100% ignition rate.
Some breech plugs have a powder well already built in, unfortunately the Optima models didn't. They are designed with a very long flash hole and an almost flat face. I tried mine(an older Optima with the flat faced breech plug) and could tell a considerable difference in hang times between the two different breech plugs.
 
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