Interesting observations from today

bryguy

Old Mossy Horns
So was in cabelas here in Dallas and this store it huge.....anyway they have a ton of bucks in there and looking them it struck me how huge a 170 inch deer is. Sorry but some of you will be very disappointed when you don’t see huge deer in eastern NC because of the new two buck limit. What struck me was the sheer body size of most of those deer that are 170 and up...their bodies make some of the ‘big’ bodied deer I have killed in NC look tiny. It was a very interesting thing to see and store for future reference


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dlbaile

Ten Pointer
Although you were in Dallas i suspect the deer mounted in there were a northern strain of deer that is one reason body size looks so big .
 

pinehunter

Eight Pointer
Yep, I lived in Illinois for 5 years and got to hunt there and in Wisconsin. The cold weather forces those deer to get big bodies on them and of course the racks are much bigger.

Never really expected to see one here in ENC like that. I don't think that is likely unless a freak comes out of the swamp. Not sure that makes the that makes the two buck limit bad though. Time will tell.
 

bryguy

Old Mossy Horns
My point was that yes those deer were from the upper Midwest, and that most, if not the vast majority of hunters fail to understand just exactly how big a 170 inch deer is. I threw the two buck limit in there as a bit of swipe at the folks who seem to think trophy bucks will now grow on trees here. It’s just mind boggling to me what a true giant deer looks like in person.


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apexhunter

Ten Pointer
It is a matter of biology that the farther from the equator the larger the animals of a species will typically be. There are other local conditions that can affect size (like the difference between down east coastal deer and those from the upper triad area) but northern deer in general will be bigger. I've seen does in the Midwest (Indiana, the Dakotas, Kansas, Nebraska) that would physically dominate all but the very largest of NC bucks. A couple years back when hunting Cheyenne Bottoms I saw what appeared to be a large buck walking through the marsh (large in comparison to an eastern NC 5 year old)- it was actually just a 2 year old 8 pointer. When I laid eyes on a truly mature buck the difference was staggering!
 
What you can't ignore is that in the Piedmont, the two-buck rule has produced more big bucks. Look at Rockingham County. More B&C bucks than any other county -- about one-third of the state's entire total -- and all but one killed after the two-buck rule went into effect.
 

Tipmoose

Administrator
Staff member
Contributor
What you can't ignore is that in the Piedmont, the two-buck rule has produced more big bucks. Look at Rockingham County. More B&C bucks than any other county -- about one-third of the state's entire total -- and all but one killed after the two-buck rule went into effect.

Warning....thread hijack attempted.
 

Bailey Boat

Twelve Pointer
When I hunt WI in Oct for Grouse I almost always see several big bucks. What confuses me is that the bucks I see have no access to agricultural crops, only wooded areas, yet they are sometimes huge bodied with likewise sized racks. Considering the winters in northern WI I don't see how they even survive let alone thrive like they do.
 

nchawkeye

Old Mossy Horns
I still wouldn't move up there for them!!!

In fact, I appreciate an 80-90 pound doe, easier to throw on the 4-wheeler and clean... :)
 

ScottyB

Old Mossy Horns
Contributor
Can someone post the link to the thread that says we will now have 170 inch deer in the east with a 2 buck limit?I missed it apparently ...... got to be a good read
 

Newsome Road

Ten Pointer
Can someone post the link to the thread that says we will now have 170 inch deer in the east with a 2 buck limit?I missed it apparently ...... got to be a good read
I was thinking the same thing. Can you also provide a link that says a 170 inch deer is common anywhere? Sure there are more of them in the Midwest, but a 170 is big to just about all of those guys as well. There's plenty of deer hunters in Iowa that would walk in that store and drool over those same mounts.
 

badlandbucks

Ten Pointer
I was thinking the same thing. Can you also provide a link that says a 170 inch deer is common anywhere? Sure there are more of them in the Midwest, but a 170 is big to just about all of those guys as well. There's plenty of deer hunters in Iowa that would walk in that store and drool over those same mounts.
That is a fact. People who think 170 inch deer are common in the Midwest watch too much TV. So many things have to be present for a deer to reach 170. Genetics, age, nutrition, stress, not getting killed by a vehicle, ehd, another buck etc etc etc. I live in Southern Iowa...where in my opinion there is a better chance of killing a 170+ than anywhere else. Here, I would guess that 10% of bucks have the genetic potential to be over 170. Of that 10%, I would bet good money half are killed (either by hunters or vehicles) before they are old enough to reach 170. So maybe 5% of mature bucks are over 170. 5% is still way more than there are in most other places. In NC I would say probably only 5% of bucks are over 150, if that much.
 

badlandbucks

Ten Pointer
When I hunt WI in Oct for Grouse I almost always see several big bucks. What confuses me is that the bucks I see have no access to agricultural crops, only wooded areas, yet they are sometimes huge bodied with likewise sized racks. Considering the winters in northern WI I don't see how they even survive let alone thrive like they do.
The large bodies are a response to the cold weather. it's called Bergmans Law. The further away from the equator you get, the larger the body mass of animals gets. Increased body mass makes it easier to stay warm in cold weather. Think Moose, Polar bears, Musk Ox, etc. Contrary to what it would seem, their large size makes the winters easier. It stands to reason that with large bodies, large antlers come with it. Milo Hansons world record typical from Saskatchewan was supposedly 3 1/2 years old.
 

30/06

Twelve Pointer
I hadn't really realized how small NC deer were until I started heading to the mid-west, we kill does on our KY lease that are much bigger than any buck I've ever seen come out of central NC. The little city deer here in Raleigh look like rabbits in comparison. I shot a decent racked but very large bodied 8 pt this season in KY and not exaggerating I got 2-3x as much meat as your average NC deer. It filled almost an entire 162 quart cooler once processed.

For the post about big deer in WI in the big woods I saw the same thing in Ontario, deer were huge and to me it looked like there was no food except for moss and twigs for them to eat.
 

Eric Revo

Old Mossy Horns
Contributor
Look at the difference in cost for trophy fees between a 150 class deer anywhere and a 170 class deer and you'll get a reality check. 170 class deer may not be "world class" as far as the trophy records are concerned, but in reality there are very few natural 170 class deer wandering around anywhere.
 

Tipmoose

Administrator
Staff member
Contributor
The OP started the thread with the 2 buck limit in East NC.......but I agree that horse has been beaten to death!

My apologies. You are right. I completely missed the two buck reference in the op. Carry on.
 

woodmoose

Administrator
Staff member
Contributor
When I hunt WI in Oct for Grouse I almost always see several big bucks. What confuses me is that the bucks I see have no access to agricultural crops, only wooded areas, yet they are sometimes huge bodied with likewise sized racks. Considering the winters in northern WI I don't see how they even survive let alone thrive like they do.


body mass helps retain body heat during winter,,,longer legs help them in the snow,,,and in the north, they tend to "yard" when the winter snows get real bad. If the winter lasts too long they can starve,,if a pack of dogs (or now wolves) hit a yard it can be bad as well,,,
 

Weekender

Twelve Pointer
Hot climate deer will always have smaller bodies. It's an evolutionary means of survival. Cold climate deer are the opposite as a means of survival.

Southern deer have their stressful times of the year when their antlers are growing, also. Antlers are the last thing their nutrition provides for, after all other bodily functions are covered.

I love reading hunting stories from the midwest, but to hunt whitetails there stopped being on my bucket list years ago.
 

Part-time hunter

Ten Pointer
I started hunting late in life, as in my 50s. I don't know if that has anything to do with it or not, but I am what you'd call a meat hunter. And as you can see my handle explains my level of dedication to the sport. I have taken some bucks before and I even have one nice 8 point rack in my "shop". I have passed on many bucks over the years so that others might have a shot at them because I'd rather take a nice fat doe or even a nice young tenderoni for the freezer. And before you jump on me for that keep in mind that in all my years of hunting I have only taken more than one deer a year maybe three times. So I don't do enough damage to the population anyway to be noticed. Don't get me wrong I enjoy deer and turkey hunting immensely and I really enjoy hunting with a couple of my old buddies. I just don't consider it a lifestyle, it's a hobby and one of many that I have. While I personally don't give a whit about trophy racks I understand the attraction of taking a trophy buck or the allure of stalking that buck of a lifetime. I know there are probably others on this forum who approach hunting as I do although we appear to be a minority here. And that's ok with me. I salute all who enjoy this sport of ours at whatever level and I wish everyone the best of luck in their pursuit of hunting happiness. I have two quotes that I try to go by, "Live and let live" and "Nobody's perfect."
 

darkthirty

Old Mossy Horns
This is all pointless really because the majority of deer hunters in this state will never see a 140” deer, much less a 170” deer. Not because NC isn’t capable of growing them, but because most hunters will shoot a 3-1/2 year old 140” deer in a heartbeat (myself included), when in reality, the deer could’ve been given two more years and possibly been all over 160”+. I have some friends who will let them pass and when you walk into their house, most would be in awe at the deer hanging on their wall and never believe they came from Central NC. One has a 168-4/8” typical 10 pt and like the OP said, it’s truly in a league of its own.
 

Helium

Old Mossy Horns
Can deer season please get here so complaints about “NO DEER IN NC” and “too many does been killed” can start again.... instead of arguing about size?
 

Lucky Clucker

Old Mossy Horns
What you can't ignore is that in the Piedmont, the two-buck rule has produced more big bucks. Look at Rockingham County. More B&C bucks than any other county -- about one-third of the state's entire total -- and all but one killed after the two-buck rule went into effect.
Different genetics near VA.
 

TravisLH

Old Mossy Horns
I was thinking the same thing. Can you also provide a link that says a 170 inch deer is common anywhere? Sure there are more of them in the Midwest, but a 170 is big to just about all of those guys as well. There's plenty of deer hunters in Iowa that would walk in that store and drool over those same mounts.
That is a fact. People who think 170 inch deer are common in the Midwest watch too much TV. So many things have to be present for a deer to reach 170. Genetics, age, nutrition, stress, not getting killed by a vehicle, ehd, another buck etc etc etc. I live in Southern Iowa...where in my opinion there is a better chance of killing a 170+ than anywhere else. Here, I would guess that 10% of bucks have the genetic potential to be over 170. Of that 10%, I would bet good money half are killed (either by hunters or vehicles) before they are old enough to reach 170. So maybe 5% of mature bucks are over 170. 5% is still way more than there are in most other places. In NC I would say probably only 5% of bucks are over 150, if that much.

It’s not very often I say this but I agree completely with badland, vast majority of bucks (in NC) even if given 6 years with no hunters and perfect conditions won’t break 140 and won’t be 10pts. But as the op said, seeing a real 170 deer is way more impressive than what most think 170 looks like.


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