How does a state go about deciding what a traditional weapon is?

gremcat

Twelve Pointer
Just thinking on the traditional side if a state has a certain MZ restriction are there a lot of guys wanting to push for Flintlock only and no percussions or smooth bore only? How far back in technology do they regress in the strictest states? Not picking a fight just truly curious. Same with archery. How do they decide when Traditional is Traditional? Is there a date of developed technology states use? It seems from what I can tell there is a wide range where some states are ok with shotguns during MZ season and some say open sight flintlocks. Just curious how the various states first developed the seasons. I also am curious how some states allow traditional archery at very low poundage but then outlaw Atls or whatever those crazy things are called. It seems both are primitive though maybe the Atl isn't an ethical tool. I have always been fascinated with traditional weapons but never had the time I thought was adequate to develop enough skill to feel confident with one.
 

CRC

Old Mossy Horns
PA set the tone with its flintlock only season enacted in 1974.

The Game Commission said at the time percussion cap ignition rifles were too close to modern guns to be allowed.

Now the tide has turned against muzzleloading only seasons.

Either states are liberalizing their regulations- like NC just did or they are going backwards and restricting what is allowed.
 

nchawkeye

Old Mossy Horns
If memory serves me right NC allowed muzzleloading in the mid 70s, at that time there were no inlines...

They came later, some hunters had no desire to learn how to use traditional muzzleloaders so basically since
they didn't exist when the seasons started the game departments didn't ban them...The first inline I remember
was the Knight MK-85 that came out in 1985...

Since many states have plenty of deer and license sales are down I don't expect to see any changes as far as
tightening regulations...

When it comes to compound bows, the first one I pulled back on was at Hodges Sporting goods in Greenville when
I was in school at ECU in the mid '70s...Previous to that we all used recurves...
 

CRC

Old Mossy Horns
Compounds became available circa 1970 and the same debate raged in the 1970s as the debate rages today in inlines vs "traditonal" muzzeloading rifles.

I think only a couple states have restricted what is allowed during muzzleloading only seasons: those are Colorado and Idaho
 
Last edited:

Longrifle

Old Mossy Horns
Contributor
I've always felt like the bigger the challenge the earlier they ought to let the hunter in the woods. I've got no problem with inlines or compounds, to each his own, but if a hunter is willing to accept the limitations of a flintlock/percussion over an inline or a longbow/recurve over a compound they should give them a little head start...

It use to be a true Primitive Weapons season...it just ain't so anymore and with the money put into compounds and inlines it never will be again.
 

D. Buck Stopshere

Six Pointer
See my post on page 2 of Remington's New Muzzleloaders regarding PA's allowing inline rifles now.

nchawkeye is right about the beginning of the Muzzle Loading Season in the early '70's. I remember traveling down to Elizabethtown for our region's public hearing. Most of those in our bunch were flintlock shooters, but we didn't recommend going the way of PA.

The first years of the muzzle loading season was imposed on the last three days of bow season, and that didn't go well with the bow hunters present. The was plenty of vocal enthusiasm that night. Later, the season stretched to six days, then to the present term.

Defining a traditional firearm will depend on Who "draws" the description. Does the NMLRA or the NRA have any input? What about the N-SSA (North-South Skirmish Association)? If it is decided by the WLRC, what are the qualifications of the decision committee? Are fixed sights required? That eliminates peep sights & adjustable sights AND older hunters with declining eyesight.

I believe in time, traditional firearms only, will have to yield to inline design rifles, especially if hunting fee revenues decline. Manufacturers will spend big money on lobbyists and lawyers to open up states like PA. See page 45 of the PA Hunting & Trapping Guide.

"Money Walks & Talks". Which will sell faster: a T/C Encore .50 caliber Muzzleloader or a TVM cap lock/flintlock .50 caliber muzzle loader at the same price? Nine out of ten will buy the T/C.

Bear in mine I'm not against anyone who prefers an inline to a side-lock rifle, and nothing against T/C. I sold hundreds of T/C rifles, inline & side-lock rifles from 1972 till closing in 2010. I shoot an inline .36 caliber pistol in competition.

Defining a traditional muzzleloader may be as easy as five blind men discovering an elephant.:D

Buck Buchanan
Field Rep-NC
NMLRA
 

CRC

Old Mossy Horns
PA did enact an early antlerless only inline season but they did not change their flintlock only season.

That is still on the books so they have seasons for both classes of muzzleloader hunters.
 

roundball

Old Mossy Horns
Contributor
Most dedicated traditionally oriented organizations at least cut off the technology at the beginning of the Civil War, to allow the preceding period of about 30 years worth of caplock invention and evolution to be included in the category, with modern in-ines being excluded for obvious reasons of course.

But the firearm commonly used / representative of the Early American Traditional Muzzleloading Era is the Flintlock.
 
Last edited:

Mr.Gadget

Old Mossy Horns
If you ask me, it should be Black powder only, and real black powder.
It should have a side lock, wheel, match and a design that pre dates the early 1900's.
 
Last edited:

D. Buck Stopshere

Six Pointer
:pI like Longrifle's idea of a "head start" season. There are those of us who would like to see a "Primitive" season preceding the "Anything Goes" season, but I don't know if the WLRC wants to explore the idea. It all goes back to what I said in the New Remington Rifle post. Its all in the numbers, who brings in the most money for license fees.

Since I do most of my hunting in the garage, others here are in a better position to gauge the creation and the maintenance costs of a "Primitive" Season.

I like to be positive, but I think the percentage of "Primitive" shooters is dwindling, nationwide. The NMLRA reached its peak in membership in 1987 with 27,000 members. We're a little under 16,000, now. That doesn't necessarily gauge hunters, just those interested in being a member of any aspect of traditional rifle/pistol/shotgun shooting.

Buck Buchanan
Field Rep-NC
NMLRA
 

Longrifle

Old Mossy Horns
Contributor
I know it's not the force it use to be but like my longbows, I enjoy my old sidelocks and the challenge of getting closer with them more than some of the more "technologically advanced" methods that try their dead level best to take the shooter out of the equation. Very few shooters work up a load any more except for those involved in long range stuff, just like very few archers actually tune their own rigs nowadays....
 

nchawkeye

Old Mossy Horns
I really don't see a need for an early season for other weapons...For years I would take a trip to Gates County for the early muzzleloading season and frankly it's too hot and the eastern rut doesn't start kicking in until the last week in October anyway...

We started going either the last week in October or the first week in November after our kids got out of high school and went off to college and our buck sightings went way up...I just use the flinter when I want to...

Back here in the Piedmont, hunting gamelands, most deer are killed within 50-60 yards anyway...So I'm not that handicapped...

Besides, I just love the look of the guys I run into using their centerfires when I walk up with a flintlock... :D
 
Last edited:

roundball

Old Mossy Horns
Contributor
Besides, I just love the look of the guys I run into using their centerfires when I walk up with a flintlock... :D
There have been 3-4 times over the years where I've just dragged a buck out to my truck, Flintlock still in hand, and a truckload of hunters would slow down and stop.
Almost always some comment gets made like "you hunt with THAT ?????"...in a tone suggesting I'm an idiot.

I usually say yeah, it's what I've used for a while now...and with the back of their truck empty I usually say "How'd you guys do this morning?"
Gets quiet and then it's "well, we got to go" and they drive off...LOL
 
Top