Has the time come for NC to legalize some single shot breech loading cartridge rifles?

Should single shot straight wall cartridge guns be legal during the 'blackpowder firearms' season?

  • Total voters
    68

CRC

Old Mossy Horns
The straight walled cartridges that seem to be availabe in exposed hammer single shot new rifles for 2020 seem to be:

22 rimfires
444 Marlin
45-70
350 Legend
450 Bushmaster
44 Rem Mag
357 Mag
500 Mag
460 Mag
38 Special
45 Colt


If anyone wants to compare these firearms to what is already legal
 
CutNRun

CutNRun

Ten Pointer
Contributor
No need to have a breech loading black powder rifle. Muzzleloaders have become incredibly accurate compared to what they were back in the day. There's still lots of leaves on trees during our (central) black powder season & there's supposed to be a challenge to it compared to centerfire rifle season.

Jim
 
pcbuckhunter

pcbuckhunter

Old Mossy Horns
Contributor
CutNRun said:
No need to have a breech loading black powder rifle. Muzzleloaders have become incredibly accurate compared to what they were back in the day. There's still lots of leaves on trees during our (central) black powder season & there's supposed to be a challenge to it compared to centerfire rifle season.

Jim
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I believe what this knucklehead is referring to are single shot centerfire rifles. Several other states have made them legal weapons for primitive weapons seasons.
 

CRC

Old Mossy Horns
I was referring to the NCWRC's proposal for NEXT (2021) season to legalize this firearm:

NitroFire® Series | TraditionsFirearms.com

The NitroFire® is the only muzzleloader on the market that uses the Federal Premium® Firestick™. The NEW NitroFire® muzzleloader is .
www.traditionsfirearms.com www.traditionsfirearms.com

Their purported excuse is it's "safer" and "easier' (like for children) than other 'muzzleloading rifles"

So if 'safety' and 'easier to use' are the NCWRC themes, why not allow single shot cartridge guns?

I know that there is support on the current Commission for doing just that.
 
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CRC

Old Mossy Horns
Emphasis mine:

This proposed rule amendment will allow for the use of pre-loaded powder capsules in muzzleloaders during blackpowder season.

Justification: Products are currently commercially available that make the loading and reloading aspect of using a muzzleloader much easier and safer for hunters. Though the bullet is loaded through the muzzle of the rifle, the powder capsule is loaded through the breech. So, while this system does not used fixed ammunition, the powder is not loaded in the same manner as with a regular inline muzzleloader. Thus, this blackpowder firearm does not meet the current definition in rule. This proposed amendment will allow for the use of new technology that is less intimidating to hunters and may increase opportunities for hunters to use muzzleloaders in a safe way
Click to expand...

The NCWRC is going to bring this for public comment this winter as a regulation change proposal
 

CRC

Old Mossy Horns
  • During the blackpowder deer season, the only lawful firearms are blackpowder shotguns, rifles and handguns. The Commission defines a blackpowder firearm as any firearm – including any firearm with a matchlock, flintlock, percussion cap, or similar type of ignition system – manufactured in or before 1898, that cannot use fixed ammunition; any replica of this type of firearm if such replica is not designed or redesigned for using rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition; and any muzzle-loading rifle, muzzle-loading shotgun, or muzzle-loading or cylinder-loading handgun that is designed to use blackpowder, blackpowder substitute, or any other propellant loaded through the muzzle or cylinder and that cannot use fixed ammunition.
    Click to expand...
 
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stanley

Four Pointer
Why do ya'll think the law was re written a couple years ago. research why they changed the wording
 
pattersonj11

pattersonj11

Old Mossy Horns
Contributor
I cannot honestly say I am against it. I remember first hearing about Mississippi doing this. I thought it was a decent idea.

If it came into play, I would rather see a list of cartridges instead of a broad wording. They could make a list that was very similar ballistically to what muzzleloaders are capable of.
 

CRC

Old Mossy Horns
stanley said:
Why do ya'll think the law was re written a couple years ago. research why they changed the wording
Click to expand...


They legalized any gun made in or before the year 1898 for a few years. That was reversed 2018 as you said.

Clarify Definition of Blackpowder Firearm H8.

Clarify the definition of a blackpowder firearm to mean “any firearm, including any firearm with a matchlock, flintlock, percussion cap or similar type of ignition system, manufactured in or before 1898, that cannot use fixed ammunition; any replica of this type of firearm if such replica is not designed or redesigned for using rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition; and any muzzle-loading rifle, muzzle-loading shotgun or muzzle-loading or cylinder-loading handgun that is designed to use blackpowder, blackpowder substitute or any other propellant loaded through the muzzle or cylinder and that cannot use fixed ammunition.”

Justification: When the current language in the N.C. Administrative Code was adopted the Commission followed the federal definition of an antique firearm with the intent of excluding any firearm that uses fixed ammunition, irrespective of when it was manufactured, from the definition of a blackpowder firearm. However, the current language does not exclude firearms that use fixed ammunition if they were manufactured before 1898, or a replica of such firearms.

This proposal is to match the N.C. Administrative Code language with agency intent and current language in the Commission’s Regulations Digest
Click to expand...

The original intent was simply to legalize cap and ball cylinder loaded handguns.
 

CRC

Old Mossy Horns
PPosey said:
Muzzleloaders, keep it simple. Front stuffers only.
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Unfortunately, someone at the NCWRC doesn't agree with you.

Ironically the NCWRC deer biologist wanted to do away with the blackpowder firearms season altogether because he believes the technology has advanced to the point where a season is no longer warranted and just an extension of 'gun' season.
 
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CRC

Old Mossy Horns
nccatfisher said:
My guess it isn’t someone at the WRC, most likely a crony of a commissioner.

Think about it, what would a biologist care about it one way or another.
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That 'someone' at the NCWRC is probably a commissioner not an employee

Regardless they want to change the definition of what guns are legal instead of going back to the old 'front stuffer' definition that was in use for several decades.

We can't just go back to propellent and projectile being loaded down the bore?
 

ellwoodjake

Twelve Pointer
As far as "safety" goes, I had an uncle who sent a ramrod through the ceiling of his den with a flintlock. He probably jiggled the pan while he was packing the powder, and made a spark. Now granted, he wasn't the sharpest tool in the shed, but I was always uncomfortable after that, watching him look down the barrel or ram it. You never knew if his pan was primed or not. There's something to be said for the safety of a breech-loader. Think about it. The first thing you learn in hunter-safety is to always point the muzzle in a safe direction; loaded or not! Then here we are, doing everything with our faces and hands in the line-of-fire
 

stanley

Four Pointer
I like 1894 and 1895 marlins and 1894 Winchester in all calibers and newer calibers like 350 legend
 

CRC

Old Mossy Horns
Commission Chairman Hoyle just mentioned that his phone has been ringing off the hook for legalizing straight wall single shot rifles (45-70) and air rifles during blackpowder seasons.

If this Nitrofire gun is legalized, cats out of the bag.

Consider legalizing these nitrofire guns as the Rubicon and if they are approved, the Rubicon has been crossed.

Single shot rifles and air rifles are next (for blackpowder season).

(Nitrofire, air rifles and single shot centerfire straight wall rifles are already legal during "gun" season)

In fact Chairman Hoyle said he wants to address changes to the legal firearms definition all at once.

Big Game Comittee meeting 10/21
 
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CRC

Old Mossy Horns
bwfarms said:
They won’t in a regular firearm season where it belongs. It does not belong in a muzzleloading season.
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I'm telling you there is a very good chance single shot straight walled cartridge guns (think 45-70 govt and 350 legend) will be allowed in blackpowder season if hunters want it.
 

CRC

Old Mossy Horns
bwfarms said:
It doesn’t belong.
Click to expand...

It does once you start legalizing any guns being loaded from the breech.

The Nitrofire guns by Federal ammunition are the first step.

Hunters massively comment against legalizing the nitrofire guns, it all stops.
 
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SKnox

Six Pointer
OK back to what I said earlier open the season in september and close it january 1 and hunt with what ever you want then everyone will be happy . When you have a limit it doesn't matter what weapon you use to kill the deer with.
 
pcbuckhunter

pcbuckhunter

Old Mossy Horns
Contributor
I honestly could care less what they do. It’s not likely to change how I hunt or what I hunt with.
That being said, IF they were to allow single shot centerfires chambered for straight walled cartridges, it might persuade me to drag out my Ruger No.3 .44 Magnum to let my daughter hunt with during the “primitive weapons” season or whatever they decide to call it.
 
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