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DBCooper

Old Mossy Horns
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I can imagine there could be lots on the LIV side. I won't speculate, but there will be a court case so we will see. Sure there is PGA collusion, we will just find out if they were dumb enough to put it in email and text.

If I ran the OWGR I would grant LIV points today. I would also set up the system so that awarded points have a multiplier based on field size, strength and # of holes played. Then I would dare them to sue again, make them prove the smaller field playing less holes deserves the same # of points as the Players. Sure they deserve points but probably closer to what is earned at the Honda or John Deere.
I'm just curious as to what you think a court could discover about LIV that would be pertinent to any case (concerning collusion by another party)???

If I was LIV, I would ask them what format garnered the most points for my members....and I would dare them to award me less. I would also use the 2024 format the PGA Tour is going to with their no-cut events....and dare them to question my no-cut events status.

They deserve more points than a typical DP World Tour tournament receives, if they go to 72 holes. It's a stronger field.

I respect the way you view this, above. Seems most want them excluded AT ANY COST...and for ANY REASON (legal or illegal). It's really odd to me. It's a clear case of the PGA Tour propagandizing the situation and the golf media is completely complicit.
 

DBCooper

Old Mossy Horns
Contributor
Still think the PGA Tour is virtuous? Monaha could have had his cake and eat it, too. He just didn't want to come off the control.

He could have thwarted ALL of this.

1678272452231.png
 
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DBCooper

Old Mossy Horns
Contributor
Mickelson had a very good press conference, yesterday. He said the LIV Tour was malleable and might go to a 72-hole format (if that's what it takes to gain OWGR points).

Imagine that.

Everything the PGA Tour is doing......is what he tried to get them to do, before the defections. So, they could have prevented most, if not all, of this. That's either greed....arrogance (or both).
 

bte0816

Eight Pointer
If the PGA chooses to roll back the golf ball LIV should absolutely do the opposite. I think that could be a big opportunity for the tour to gain some positive perception from fans.

I have never finished a round of golf and said "I hit the ball to straight and far today, this wasn't fun." There are plenty of ways to make players think twice about bombing it around. Actually make missing the fairway penal. We aren't raising the basket to 13' because guys jump higher or extending a mile because the mile time is coming down.

Restrictor plate ruined Nascar, if they want to roll the ball back just let everyone drop at 150y and let it be a pitch and putt tour.
 

DBCooper

Old Mossy Horns
Contributor
If the PGA chooses to roll back the golf ball LIV should absolutely do the opposite. I think that could be a big opportunity for the tour to gain some positive perception from fans.

I have never finished a round of golf and said "I hit the ball to straight and far today, this wasn't fun." There are plenty of ways to make players think twice about bombing it around. Actually make missing the fairway penal. We aren't raising the basket to 13' because guys jump higher or extending a mile because the mile time is coming down.

Restrictor plate ruined Nascar, if they want to roll the ball back just let everyone drop at 150y and let it be a pitch and putt tour.
The PGA Tour isn't railing to roll back the golf ball (they're against it). It's the USGA and the R&A.

If LIV decided to not adopt the modified local rule for their competitions, it would put their members at a big disadvantage in the two majors that absolutely will be affected (the Open Chamiponship and the US Open). If the USGA and the R&A adopt this, the PGA Tour and LIV will also.

I'd say this is a done deal.
 

DBCooper

Old Mossy Horns
Contributor
5:50
World Golf News
Suggested for you • 1d • ©
Phil Mickelson says the agile and fluid
nature of LIV Golf means that they
would consider shifting to a traditional
72-hole format if it helped secure
World Ranking points.
The six-time Major champion is
somewhat of an ambassador for the
new LIV Golf League brand and has a
direct line to the Saudi-based backers
of the tournament.
The left-hander says the tour is
moving ahead of schedule due to
making a flying start last year, but they
are always looking at ways to improve
the brand.
Mickelson described LIV's progress as
"beyond amazing" in the last year, and
said as an agile new tour they'd always
consider changes as they go - even
including extending to 72 holes if it
helped to achieve Official World Golf
Ranking (OWGR) criteria for awarding
points.
 

DBCooper

Old Mossy Horns
Contributor
Under the current rules for making the Ryder Cup team, in the US at least; U.S. Ryder Cup hopefuls begin earning points beginning on January 1st of the year that precedes the Ryder Cup, and point accumulations ends after the BMW Championship, a FedEx Cup Playoff event just weeks before the Ryder Cup. So, for the 2023 Ryder Cup, points can be earned from January 1, 2022 until August 20, 2023. Points are earned in conjunction with money won at events. This is an adjustment from 2021 due to the PGA Tour’s series of elevated events which have much larger purses for 2023. Here’s how points are earned in 2023:

None of those events are LIV events and therefore they cannot earn points (exceptions being the majors but you are not going to be in the top 6 on majors alone) then it is Captains choice and given the animosity between the players, no Captain in his right mind would do that to the locker room.

We are fundamentally on different pages here and that is fine. I have no problem with the exclusion of players who jumped for the quick, and in many cases unearned money to LIV, a tour designed out of malice as a tool for revenge by a disgruntled has been with the full intention of ruining the PGA/DP World Tour. Once the first shot was fired the war was on. You have a problem with excluding them.. fine. Choices have consequences for both sides.
Hmmmm........

Koepka is currently ranked 2nd on the Ryder Cup points system. But, even if he doesn't qualify, points-wise, you wouldn't pick him? If not, what would be your rationale (for not picking him)?
 

DBCooper

Old Mossy Horns
Contributor
Uninformed how so, they currently have two players in the top 20, then 10 players from 22-50th rankings with the remaining players ranking from 55-2326 place…lol. They have 6 players ranked outside of 1000. Again a lot are has beens like Watson, Phil, Stenson and even could be said for DJ, Koepka, Reed and Dechambeau. The biggest majority of the field aren’t even in the top 100 with a huge percentage outside the top 200. You are too ignorant to see it’s not competitive golf, regardless of how poorly you play there are no consequences. It’s the misfits tour. I don’t think any will win another major only one that could have a chance is Smith but playing in a watered down format will effect his play.
After two majors have been played......have you changed your mind about the WGRs?

They're a joke.
 

Firedog

Old Mossy Horns
Contributor
Hmmmm........

Koepka is currently ranked 2nd on the Ryder Cup points system. But, even if he doesn't qualify, points-wise, you wouldn't pick him? If not, what would be your rationale (for not picking him)?
I would not. Rational is simple; he was told before he decided to play LIV that doing so would mean that he did not get to play in the Ryder Cup. Choices have consequences.

Hate that I only get to see him play 4 times a year, but he made his bed. He all but said, some time ago that he took the LIV money because he was not sure he would ever be at this level again. There have also been reports that he regrets that decision.

Again for those in the back, I have nothing against the players that left for LIV (well not because they left, some of them I did not like before hand). However, they made a business decision and I have 0 sympathy for their not liking the consequences of that decision. I have made that position as clear as I know how to make it for you.
 

richard corn

Ten Pointer
I read somewhere that he was exploring how to get back on PGA Tour. I believe his fate is sealed. Hard for me to get excited over an event that plays 54 holes and allows full grown men to wear bermuda shorts
 

DBCooper

Old Mossy Horns
Contributor
I would not. Rational is simple; he was told before he decided to play LIV that doing so would mean that he did not get to play in the Ryder Cup. Choices have consequences.

Hate that I only get to see him play 4 times a year, but he made his bed. He all but said, some time ago that he took the LIV money because he was not sure he would ever be at this level again. There have also been reports that he regrets that decision.

Again for those in the back, I have nothing against the players that left for LIV (well not because they left, some of them I did not like before hand). However, they made a business decision and I have 0 sympathy for their not liking the consequences of that decision. I have made that position as clear as I know how to make it for you.
Who exactly told him the bolded part?

Follow-up question:

What if he does qualify (points) for the Ryder Cup team? Would you exclude him? If so...why?
 

Firedog

Old Mossy Horns
Contributor
Who exactly told him the bolded part?

Follow-up question:

What if he does qualify (points) for the Ryder Cup team? Would you exclude him? If so...why?
Several people including the Captain himself in June of last year.

The rules exclude no one who makes it in on points, so that is a Red Herring question. If you can earn enough points in 4 starts then you play.

I am not getting into a back and forth with you on this subject again. You have your opinion and I have mine and nothing I say will change yours and the same applies in reverse.
 

DBCooper

Old Mossy Horns
Contributor
Several people including the Captain himself in June of last year.

The rules exclude no one who makes it in on points, so that is a Red Herring question. If you can earn enough points in 4 starts then you play.

I am not getting into a back and forth with you on this subject again. You have your opinion and I have mine and nothing I say will change yours and the same applies in reverse.
I'm not talking about "opinion". If you have a quote you can cite from last June, I'd appreciate it.

**Edit - I found it for you.

""In order to play on the Ryder Cup team whether you're top 6 or a pick, you must garner Ryder Cup points through the PGA of America," Johnson said. "In order to garner Ryder Cup points through the PGA of America, you have to be a member of the PGA of America. The way that we're members of the PGA of America is through the PGA Tour."

Wanna make a bet he has to eat those words? His first sentence is a blatant lie.

The PGA Tour does not control the Ryder Cup, as much as many would like for that to be true. DP World Tour? Yes. They control their RC team.

If your objective (and, you said it was) is to exclude them from the Ryder Cup and the majors for whatever reason, I understand how you can say the things you say. I just don't understand how or why you feel that way. The PGA Tour, the Ryder Cup and the majors are (with the exception go the PGA of America controlling the RC and the PGA Championship) separate entities. I don't like the PGA Tour trying to control everything, and I hope it bites them in the ass. The repercussions will be self-inflicted.
 
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DBCooper

Old Mossy Horns
Contributor
A PGA Club Professional from CA finishes T15th.....and there's still people out there that thought Phil, Bryson, Reed, Koepka (etc) couldn't compete in majors.

Best TV golf viewing in a LONG time....was watching Chamblee eat his crow last night.
 

Scrub

Twelve Pointer
Contributor
After two majors have been played......have you changed your mind about the WGRs?

They're a joke.

Nope not until the LIV changes their format. 54 holes with a limited set field isnt competitiv. LIV is going to be short lived anyway. They made their decision to play on LIV and knew the consequences they need to quit whining about it and just deal with the decision.
 
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DBCooper

Old Mossy Horns
Contributor
Nope not until the LIV changes their format. 54 holes with a set field, LIV is going to be short lived anyway.
If Rahm and Scheffler switched to LIV, tomorrow, would they still be the best two golfers in the world in 6 mos? Everyone knows the answer to that question is - YES.

You're looking a this from the wrong lens. You think that the tours should tilt towards the OWGR. That's ass-backwards, to me. The Masters and the PGA Championship proved my point. They (supposedly) thought Koepka wasn't in the top 100 (prior to the Masters).

1684766939420.png

They have no credibility, unil THEY find a legitimate way to rank the world's best golfers. Everyone not drinking the PGA Tour kool-Aid knows this.
 

Firedog

Old Mossy Horns
Contributor
If your objective (and, you said it was) is to exclude them from the Ryder Cup and the majors for whatever reason,
Don't put words in my mouth. It is not my objective to exclude them from anything. They decided to exclude themselves by joining a tour that does not give them access (save for the ones that had access before).
 

Scrub

Twelve Pointer
Contributor
A PGA Club Professional from CA finishes T15th.....and there's still people out there that thought Phil, Bryson, Reed, Koepka (etc) couldn't compete in majors.

Best TV golf viewing in a LONG time....was watching Chamblee eat his crow last night.

“Best TV golf viewing and it was a PGA event, LIV will never hold a candle to it and will fade out
 

DBCooper

Old Mossy Horns
Contributor
Don't put words in my mouth. It is not my objective to exclude them from anything. They decided to exclude themselves by joining a tour that does not give them access (save for the ones that had access before).
"I have no problem with the exclusion of players who jumped for the quick, and in many cases unearned money to LIV" - Firedog

Could've fooled me.
 

Scrub

Twelve Pointer
Contributor
If Rahm and Scheffler switched to LIV, tomorrow, would they still be the best two golfers in the world in 6 mos? Everyone knows the answer to that question is - YES.

You're looking a this from the wrong lens. You think that the tours should tilt towards the OWGR. That's ass-backwards, to me. The Masters and the PGA Championship proved my point. They (supposedly) thought Koepka wasn't in the top 100 (prior to the Masters).

View attachment 116853

They have no credibility, unil THEY find a legitimate way to rank the world's best golfers. Everyone not drinking the PGA Tour kool-Aid knows this.

Your problem is not accepting that they on their own free will left knowing what Norman got them into. He expected the PGA and everyone else to cave. They are no longer PGA players.
 

DBCooper

Old Mossy Horns
Contributor
“Best TV golf viewing and it was a PGA event, LIV will never hold a candle to it and will fade out
Chamblee works for the golf channel.

(and hey...the PGA of America and the PGA Tour are separate entities)
 

DBCooper

Old Mossy Horns
Contributor
Your problem is not accepting that they on their own free will left knowing what Norman got them into. He expected the PGA and everyone else to cave. They are no longer PGA players.
He expected them not to be unfairly denied access to the majors. That's just common decency. That's what the majors SHOULD be all about. It shouldn't be about - "hey...let's exclude those players...even though we all know they are worthy" - just because we can.

I'm a GOLF fan. I'm not a PGA Tour fan....or a LIV Golf fan. I want to see the best golfers in the world tee it up at least 4X/yr. I detest the mentality of excluding them at all costs. The PGA Tour; DP World Tour; USGA all have major controlling influence on the OWGR. That's wrong.
 

Firedog

Old Mossy Horns
Contributor
"I have no problem with the exclusion of players who jumped for the quick, and in many cases unearned money to LIV" - Firedog

Could've fooled me.
And I don't have a problem with it, but where in that sentence does it say that is my goal?

They are excluded because they chose to be excluded.
 

DBCooper

Old Mossy Horns
Contributor
And I don't have a problem with it, but where in that sentence does it say that is my goal?

They are excluded because they chose to be excluded.
Chose to be?

That’s like saying - man tells his wife…”.if you leave me, I’ll kill you”…and saying she chose to be murdered.
 

DBCooper

Old Mossy Horns
Contributor
The No. 1 player in the world is on board......

“I want to win the Ryder Cup,’’ Scheffler said. “I don't care about tours or anything like that. I want to win the Ryder Cup. It's something we talked about ... when we finished (in 2021). We want to beat those guys in Europe. It's been a long time since we've beat them. Whoever the best 12 guys that make a complete team, it's different than individual tournaments. We want a team of guys that are going over there together to bring the Cup back home, and that's all I really care about.’’

How refreshing.
 
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