Fox Squirrel Down!!

Mack in N.C.

Old Mossy Horns
My second attempt at this one. He gave me the slip twice last week and I was determined to get him today. I was pondering whether to hunt this spot since i had spooked him but what the heck! Got to the spot(which was right between the 2 places I saw him last week) and the wind was right(lol) . At 9:30 I spotted a little white spot on a tree 80 yards out. I thought to myself, that doesn't look right. I kept watching and after 5 minutes or so I saw a little movement. It is amazing how well a black squirrel can blend in. I have killed probably a hundred of them plus guided others and It still amazes me how they blend in. Anyway, I rushed the tree and he hid near the top instead of going back down 15 ft to the hole he came out of. My 20 gauge Double barrel did the rest. Video Out soon !!!DSCF4730.JPG
 

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nccatfisher

nccatfisher

Old Mossy Horns
Contributor
Mack in N.C. said:
YES, got 3 of em. 12, 16, and this 20. I may be wrong but i think this 20 is an oddball as it has 2 full chokes. My other 2 311's dont have matching chokes. it is a great squirrel gun though I prefer a single shot .
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Not exactly oddball, just ordered. You could get them choked any way you wanted them. But most of them that were "stock" guns were choked one barrel tighter than the other. Except the .410 bore. Many of them were full and full.
 
nccatfisher

nccatfisher

Old Mossy Horns
Contributor
woodmoose said:
my favorite shotgun pellet for fox squirrels (or grey squirrels up north where they have more "bulk"),,,,,
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A buddy fro Mi. went down to SC this weekend and hunted and couldn't get over the "little" greys. I will never forget the first year I went up there, the greys and blacks looked like bricks they were so fat in late fall where they had put on so much fat in preparation for winter.
 
woodmoose

woodmoose

Administrator
Staff member
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nccatfisher said:
A buddy fro Mi. went down to SC this weekend and hunted and couldn't get over the "little" greys. I will never forget the first year I went up there, the greys and blacks looked like bricks they were so fat in late fall where they had put on so much fat in preparation for winter.
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Good ol' Bergman,,,,,
 

Mack in N.C.

Old Mossy Horns
woodmoose said:
Good ol' Bergman,,,,,
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did you know that fox squirrels are "Reverse Bergman" ? the southern Fox squirrels are bigger than northern ones.
they think it has something to do with the open longleaf pine forest where a bigger squirrel has an advantage of longer strides running and also a bigger squirrel size is needed to handle the longleaf pine cones.
 
woodmoose

woodmoose

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Staff member
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Mack in N.C. said:
did you know that fox squirrels are "Reverse Bergman" ? the southern Fox squirrels are bigger than northern ones.
they think it has something to do with the open longleaf pine forest where a bigger squirrel has an advantage of longer strides running and also a bigger squirrel size is needed to handle the longleaf pine cones.
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yeap,,,,and they are big enough to make a meal all by his self,,,,

congrats again
 
nccatfisher

nccatfisher

Old Mossy Horns
Contributor
I think that may have something to do with subspecies. The red fox squirrel like we have in the mountain region up north will be half again as big as they are down here.

It is just our multi colored ones that are much bigger.
 
gremcat

gremcat

Twelve Pointer
I saw two types listed in NC I think when trying for them, I was in GA hunting and saw a small black / white variety and when driving to NC saw many of a much larger variety and only one was black. The rest were saddled grey/red underbelly and white nose. They looked like groundhogs.

Larger variety was n. Niger or S.n. Niger. Forget name of smaller black variety. Someone in GA called them Cat Squirrels. Could be a local term. Would love to get one and even made an attempt before leaving NC to drive to Sandhills but it was fruitless.
 
sky hawk

sky hawk

Old Mossy Horns
Contributor
Mack in N.C. said:
did you know that fox squirrels are "Reverse Bergman" ? the southern Fox squirrels are bigger than northern ones.
they think it has something to do with the open longleaf pine forest where a bigger squirrel has an advantage of longer strides running and also a bigger squirrel size is needed to handle the longleaf pine cones.
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I don't know near as much about fox squirrels as some of you, but the biggest ones I've seen were up north. I've seen quite a few of our eastern variety of various color patterns - black, white, gray mixes. Nice big ones that live the easy life on golf courses. I've never seen anything as big as one or two I saw in northern IN. There were a couple red fox squirrels up there the size of grown cats. Squirrels so fat they would make two of ours.
 

Mack in N.C.

Old Mossy Horns
sky hawk said:
I don't know near as much about fox squirrels as some of you, but the biggest ones I've seen were up north. I've seen quite a few of our eastern variety of various color patterns - black, white, gray mixes. Nice big ones that live the easy life on golf courses. I've never seen anything as big as one or two I saw in northern IN. There were a couple red fox squirrels up there the size of grown cats. Squirrels so fat they would make two of ours.
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Terry Sharp a retired Bioligist and Wigle sp? from Wake Forest University did a several year long study on everything about scuirus niger niger which is the sub species found from SE Virginia down the coast to northern florida and they compared weights to studies of other fox squirrel subspecies (10 total) and the average weighs were higher that any of the other 9 subspecies. Never seen another subspecies except the one in western virginia so the only thing I can guess is maybe in winter they look bigger as they have more fur. I have killed them up to 3.2 lbs but the longest was 34.5 inches long and they do look as big as house cats in the woods.
 

Mack in N.C.

Old Mossy Horns
from his study, ( I am paraphrasing here) (I have 90 plus page study) southern fox squirrels (niger, shermani, bachmani, ) avg 900-1200 grams and these are almost indistinguishable from each other these 3 sub species are "reverse Bergmann"s rule" and niger which we have has higher weights in Florida than in NC or Va

the ones found in the Va mtns over to the mid west over to the rockies (rufiventer, vulpinus, and ludovicianus) only averaged 600-900 grams and follow "Bergmann's rule"

this is straight from the book. "fox squirrels of the Atlantic coastal plain not only are absolutely larger than their con-specifics to the west but also show a reverse " Bergmann Rule" size cline."

Says Northern Florida's subspecies which is also ours are bigger down there so I guess it may be possible that rufiventer may be bigger way up north than our niger here in nc

if that made any sense at all.
 
nccatfisher

nccatfisher

Old Mossy Horns
Contributor
I can promise you the red ones are half again bigger up in Mi. than they are in western NC and out in Tn. I have killed a truck load of them. But they aren't as big as the biggest of the multicolored ones we have down east.
 

Mack in N.C.

Old Mossy Horns
nccatfisher said:
I can promise you the red ones are half again bigger up in Mi. than they are in western NC and out in Tn. I have killed a truck load of them. But they aren't as big as the biggest of the multicolored ones we have down east.
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that would be correct as to his findings and what I tried to say as the ones in Va,our NW counties and part of Tenn are what he considers western or Midwestern ones. I probably didnt translate what he found out too clear but several times in the study it is mentioned that the Biggest fox squirrels evolved in the Longleaf Pine forest and they conclude that it has to do with a bigger squirrel having an advantage in the more open forest and handling those big pine cones. They noted in a study and I would have to find it but gray squirrels and other fox squirrels (captive) were given longleaf pine cones and all ate the cones but all struggled with them compared to the species we have.

my next goal is to kill one of the ones in va or our nw counties but I have got to find a place. I saw one n Virginia a couple a months ago but it was on State park land!
 

sll

Four Pointer
I live in NE TN......lots of fox squirrels around here but never saw a solid black one.
 
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