Flounder Reg Changes

darenative

Ten Pointer
I'd love to see how the data was compiled. In all my years of fishing I only participated in one ramp survey.
Yep, i can count on one hand the times ive been approached about a rec survey. I've never had a phone survey or mail in survey ever. Makes you wonder how much actual data is being used to manage our resources on a state and regional level.
There was a thread on another fishing forum where, iirc, the tile rec fishery was scheduled to be closed based on something asinine like 4 or 5 rec surveys..
 

oldest school

Old Mossy Horns
Surely the methodology of determining rec activity (surveys ) is sound, else the cca would be doing backflips?
Given the huge number of lessened SW recs the odds of getting a call are small.
Likewise ramp stuff is random. I doubt they cover every ramp.
 

HotSoup

Ten Pointer
I think a better solution would be a 18" minimum over an all out closure. Of course at this point they are going to do what they want.
 

chrispowell

Six Pointer
I think a better solution would be a 18" minimum over an all out closure. Of course at this point they are going to do what they want.
The Wildlife Federation is recommending a 12 to 18 inch slot limit because larger flounder tend to be spawning age females.
 

HotSoup

Ten Pointer
9-10 recs couldn’t catch the clap in a whore house, while 9-10 comms would be dead of syphilis in a week.
Exactly....its not like flounder are as easy to catch as pinfish

A 12" is a waste of a fish, hell a 15" is see thru. Id be happy with a 16"-20" limit of 4
 

longrifle

Old Mossy Horns
Contributor
Never said that or that there aren't issues that need to be addressed. But when I'm having breakfast at a local eatery and see a $50-$60K rig roll in at 9:30 and they're back for lunch with the same lures on their rods...and I do look.... I gotta admit.....I do laugh when I hear them bitchin' about not catching anything....
 
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oldest school

Old Mossy Horns
So y'all think nothing is wrong with our fisheries? Just the recs can't catch fish?
well since our rec catch is only exceeded by florida who are we behind? or do we just have more rec fishermen?
i do think the drama in play from the recs is a desire to kill more for their pans rather than "improve" the fishery.
they as a group have some fishermen as greedy as any commercial fisherman.
they gotta justify the expense of saltwater angling by keeping those $20 per lb fish. imo.
 

HotSoup

Ten Pointer
well since our rec catch is only exceeded by florida who are we behind? or do we just have more rec fishermen?
i do think the drama in play from the recs is a desire to kill more for their pans rather than "improve" the fishery.
they as a group have some fishermen as greedy as any commercial fisherman.
they gotta justify the expense of saltwater angling by keeping those $20 per lb fish. imo.
Last time I checked "greedy" rec guys can only keep 4 of those $20/lb fish per day. In 4 weeks we will be forced to buy those fish, will YOU be happy then?
 

JohnBoat

Banned
well since our rec catch is only exceeded by florida who are we behind? or do we just have more rec fishermen?
i do think the drama in play from the recs is a desire to kill more for their pans rather than "improve" the fishery.
they as a group have some fishermen as greedy as any commercial fisherman.
they gotta justify the expense of saltwater angling by keeping those $20 per lb fish. imo.
Considering we have the pamlico sound and the OBX our fisheries should be top notch. We are basically a giant natural fish hatchery.

Let's look at the state of inshore fishing in NC

Striper: 0
Specks: 4 per day (closed till June when too cold a winter)
Flounder: about to be closed
Drum: 1 per day
Grey trout: 1 per day
Spots: not worth fishing for anymore
Croaker: not worth fishing for anymore

Yet you think we are doing fine?
 

JohnBoat

Banned
Never said that or that there aren't issues that need to be addressed. But when I'm having breakfast at a local eatery and see a $50-$60K rig roll in at 9:30 and they're back for lunch with the same lures on their rods...and I do look.... I gotta admit.....I do laugh when I hear them bitchin' about not catching anything....
Do you think commercial commercial fishing needs to be addressed?
 

sky hawk

Old Mossy Horns
Contributor
Considering we have the pamlico sound and the OBX our fisheries should be top notch. We are basically a giant natural fish hatchery.

Let's look at the state of inshore fishing in NC

Striper: 0
Specks: 4 per day (closed till June when too cold a winter)
Flounder: about to be closed
Drum: 1 per day
Grey trout: 1 per day
Spots: not worth fishing for anymore
Croaker: not worth fishing for anymore

Yet you think we are doing fine?
And that right there is why fishermen are so frustrated. We have the potential to have great fishing in this state, and we've been pissing it away for decades, to the point that we've about run some of the stocks in the ground.

Even with water quality issues, even with a lot of users, even with the many challenges we have, if some key changes were made we could drastically improve our fisheries.

I can't figure out which is right, are the recs catching them all or can they not catch a cold? Which is it, cause it ain't both.
 

longrifle

Old Mossy Horns
Contributor
JohnBoat here's where you and I differ. There are tons of things that influence our fisheries, your focus seems to be entirely on the comms.
Go take a look at places like Oriental, Hobucken, Lowland these days. All were once thriving fishing communities. Now well over 2/3 the population has to leave the county to find work and the sailing vessels outnumber any remaining fishing boats 100 to 1. The majority of the larger company trawlers here are going north for scallops instead of remaining local and there ain't no mom and pops left. So why/how do the numbers you can catch or not catch fall so heavily on the comms?

New deepwater harbors have sprung up in any place that would shelter a sailboat and are dredged regularly to accommodate their draft. Those spoils have to go somewhere and who knows what is being dumped from them! No effect?

One of the biggest threats I've seen over the course of over the past 6 decades is that land that was once absolutely off limits for building just a few decades ago is now absolutely riddled with developments. BIG MONEY developments, half million dollar homesites. Go look at River Dunes! Go look at Dawsons Creek! Wetlands can be filled if your pockets are deep enough these days. In some places you literally have to get your feet wet to walk around the corners of the houses. You don't think all the herbicides and pesticides sprayed, septic runoff, etc, that's watered into the estuaries to keep these high-dollar developments manicured and toilets flushing all the time is a factor?No, it's all on the comms, right?

There ARE recs who catch fish and the majority of them do so because they have local knowledge and spend lots of time on the water. I don't know how anybody can expect to drive down 3-4 times a year and fill coolers. I'm sorry but fish don't bite just because you showed up, it rarely happens. Best enjoy your time on the water for what it is, a day on the water. If can catch enough for supper that's a bonus.
 

longrifle

Old Mossy Horns
Contributor
One works their butt off, sometimes 7 days a week, to support their family and provide fresh seafood to the nation. The other wants to enjoy a day on the water and catch a few fish. Which, in the grand scheme of things, is more important is a matter of perception...
 

CRC

Old Mossy Horns
Doesn't change the reality of how things have worked in Raleigh for decades.


Both are taking a hit with current flounder management.
 
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longrifle

Old Mossy Horns
Contributor
The comms would still catch more fish and the reason is simple: they do it every day. They follow the movements, they keep logs of what, when, and where they caught fish. They can read the tides and the water and know what to do when.

If you really think it's that simple....that swapping the method would significantly change the outcome...you're dreaming. The recs might catch more than they've ever caught, true that, but method-to-method they'll still never outfish a man that does it as his sole means of support. There's helluva lot more to catching fish, or shrimp, or crabs than just dropping a net...or a lure... in the water. THAT train of thought is the biggest problem I see with many recs...
 

woodmoose

Administrator
Staff member
Contributor
JohnBoat here's where you and I differ. There are tons of things that influence our fisheries, your focus seems to be entirely on the comms.
Go take a look at places like Oriental, Hobucken, Lowland these days. All were once thriving fishing communities. Now well over 2/3 the population has to leave the county to find work and the sailing vessels outnumber any remaining fishing boats 100 to 1. The majority of the larger company trawlers here are going north for scallops instead of remaining local and there ain't no mom and pops left. So why/how do the numbers you can catch or not catch fall so heavily on the comms?

New deepwater harbors have sprung up in any place that would shelter a sailboat and are dredged regularly to accommodate their draft. Those spoils have to go somewhere and who knows what is being dumped from them! No effect?

One of the biggest threats I've seen over the course of over the past 6 decades is that land that was once absolutely off limits for building just a few decades ago is now absolutely riddled with developments. BIG MONEY developments, half million dollar homesites. Go look at River Dunes! Go look at Dawsons Creek! Wetlands can be filled if your pockets are deep enough these days. In some places you literally have to get your feet wet to walk around the corners of the houses. You don't think all the herbicides and pesticides sprayed, septic runoff, etc, that's watered into the estuaries to keep these high-dollar developments manicured and toilets flushing all the time is a factor?No, it's all on the comms, right?

There ARE recs who catch fish and the majority of them do so because they have local knowledge and spend lots of time on the water. I don't know how anybody can expect to drive down 3-4 times a year and fill coolers. I'm sorry but fish don't bite just because you showed up, it rarely happens. Best enjoy your time on the water for what it is, a day on the water. If can catch enough for supper that's a bonus.

Yeap,,,,just plan too many people with too much money,,,
 

woodmoose

Administrator
Staff member
Contributor
We had to end commercial duck hunting back when,,,,them fellows fed the the nation and had families to support too

Man is a blight,,,,one day we will accept that
 

CRC

Old Mossy Horns
Here is some data from Florida. May not apply to NC.

50% of the Southern flounder there are mature at 13-15 inches long.
 

JohnBoat

Banned
Longrifle,

Just because there are less people in the commercial fishery does not mean there is less catch. Look at shrimp landing's, they have either stayed the same or increased over the years. It's bigger boats with bigger nets staying out for days at a time. They are probably a big reason a lot of the mom and pop operations are gone. So the fact that 2/3 of the commercials are gone is irrelevant when it comes to there impact on the fisheries. 2/3 of farmers are gone as well. Now it's all big farming operations run by fewer people. Technology and better equipment has allowed this.

You also seem to think that a person working 7 days a week to provide for their family has a bigger right to the fish than the guy doing it for fun 1-2 days a week. As admirable as that may be it's just not true. The fish that swim NC waters are a public resource. A commercial fisherman has no more right to them than someone who doesn't fish at all. That's a fact.

I also agree that land development and water quality issues are a problem, but that's not what this thread was about so I didn't bring them up.

In shore trawlers destroy the bottom and produce 4lbs of bycatch for every 1lb of shrimp on average. I think from what i have read over 90% of that bycatch is spot, croaker, and weakfish (grey trout). Is it any wonder those fisheries suck now? Those species are also an important food source for larger fish species as well.

I also don't care who is a better fisherman as far as comm vs rec goes. I just want to help the resource. If you look at flounder landings the comms catch way more than recs. A commercial gigger can go get 100 flounder in one dang night sometimes. That's insane. I'm all for commercial fishing but something has to change.
 

longrifle

Old Mossy Horns
Contributor
"that's not what this thread is about" speaks volumes to me. That's what sticks in my craw. When you're complaining about the decline of a resource without discussing ALL the factors affecting that resource you're just as culpable as anyone, just as responsible for "throwing the baby out with the bathwater" as they are.

Otherwise, where you're missing the boat, pun intended, is that I'd agree with some of your arguments. There are a couple of points that I think you're either misinterpreting or overlooking. I never said one has more right than another, I simply said that if you're going to throw stones, if you're serious about improvement of the resource, throw them at all of the offenders because they all affect the fishery. Just got the notice from the State this week that it's not safe to swim in Dawsons Creek because of the pollution levels. There hasn't been a trawl past that bridge in decades. Wanna guess what is there? A shiney new manicured 40 lot subdivision called Shine Landing, complete with ramps and HOA....

First, when there was less waterfront development and severely limited encroachment into the estuaries there was significantly less pollution affecting them and both comms AND recs were catching fish. It wasn't until the creeks and rivers had houses on every inch of both banks that I started seeing the huge steel hulls pulling two huge nets 24/7 and the small boats started being sold. Until then it was just locals pulling a small single trawl, and usually from just before sunup til noon. Most of them were home for lunch and they rarely worked on weekends. I know because I was on one of them every summer from the time I could steer it until I graduated high school.

Second, I know from experience how much of a part local knowledge plays in catching fish. I owned a bait, tackle, and guide service on the Saint Johns River inf Florida for a few years. Do you think people pay $250 a day plus bait for someone who has no more knowledge of the area than they do? I'll answer that for you: they don't. Local knowledge plays a huge part in catching fish.

Third: Exactly how many recs do you know that actually fish 1-2 days a week? That's borderline laughable buddy. I'm a recreational fisherman. I'm retired, surrounded by creeks and rivers, and I could be on fishing on most any one of them in ten-fifteen minutes. I have three fishing boats in my yard, two are rigged and ready to hook up, and even I don't get to fish 1-2 days every week. If I did I guarantee you I could catch fish faster than I could eat them....and eventually so could they....
 

darenative

Ten Pointer
Jon boat the part about you being all for commercial fishing is bullshit. You managed to throw all aspects of commercial fishing under the bus in one post.
You are sounding just like one of the nc waterman sycophants.
Ol chucks flunkies taught you well
 

oldest school

Old Mossy Horns
Considering we have the pamlico sound and the OBX our fisheries should be top notch. We are basically a giant natural fish hatchery.

Let's look at the state of inshore fishing in NC

Striper: 0
Specks: 4 per day (closed till June when too cold a winter)
Flounder: about to be closed
Drum: 1 per day
Grey trout: 1 per day
Spots: not worth fishing for anymore
Croaker: not worth fishing for anymore

Yet you think we are doing fine?
well yeah. you have listed what can be killed not what can be enjoyed by catching.
you can catch a 100 trout per day, big drum until you are tired, stripers until your fingers bleed.
why is everything back to killing them. rec cats aint got to kill their catch. comms kinda do,

if a rec fisherman wont fish because he can only keep a few fish a day, that's his problem not the fishery's.
 
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