HotSoup
Old Mossy Horns
Of course they passed a 70/30, not listening one bit to public comment.
Flounder 2021
- Thread starter HotSoup
- Start date
Wilmywood
Button Buck
I wish the public had some say on who was appointed to the commission OR had some sort of vote regarding laws. Hopefully some of the older commissioners that lean heavily towards commercial will be replaced in the coming years. I do not see any progress being able to be made given the current make up.
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darenative
Twelve Pointer
You do understand how the 9 seats are structured on the mfc?
Wilmywood
Button Buck
From my statement where did you see that I do not understand that?
darenative
Twelve Pointer
Usually when folks talk about replacing members that lean one way or the other, they don't realize each seat represents a sector of the users of the resource, and as such gets replaced by another with skin in the game, so to say.
What progress would you like to see made if the rec side were to "pack the court" of the mfc?
Wilmywood
Button Buck
My comment was directed at the "at large" members who have a track record of siding with the commercial industry. I made no wish to "pack the court" as you say, That would defeat the purpose and integrity of the commission. However, it has been frustrating to sit on the side lines and never see a significant change in the management of our coastal fisheries. Specifically, I would like to see a more evenly dispersed allotment for commercial and recreational flounder, stringent regulation of the inshore trawling industry and the ban of small mesh gillnets.
darenative
Twelve Pointer
That's quite the list on the heels of your purpose and integrity statement just one sentence prior.
Wilmywood
Button Buck
Please feel free to elaborate. Is not the purpose of the commission to protect our fishery for the fairness of everyone? How is the current allotment fair to everyone? Are those fishing practices sustainable or are they harmful to the point where they should be changed / regulated?
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HotSoup
Old Mossy Horns
I listened to quite a bit of it before going to sleep. It is obvious that there are lined pockets there.
darenative
Twelve Pointer
It is the purpose without a doubt. I believe its FRA97 that states the mfc must manage the resource for both sides, not just the rec side.
Im not sure you want to go down the fair allotment path. That sure looks like a slippery slope, given the recs out catch comm side on a right good number of species. Once you start righting perceived inequities do we stop at your definition of fair or go by a true 50/50 split all the way across the board.?
HotSoup
Old Mossy Horns
Yeah and commercial gets tokeep 75 trout per day where as rec can keep 4....
A very good point was made. While trip tickets give numbers for fish sold, what about the 2/3rds of them that don't report, the ones whom operate and don't sell, etc.
Justin
Old Mossy Horns
Let it be known that it wasn’t Omega (even though I’m firmly against their practice), that wiped out the stripers, and it wasn’t commercial fishing either. Every slack jawed, CCA cadet, window licker that could get across the bar was running 2 and 3 a days.
darenative
Twelve Pointer
Where's the real data on rec harvest?
Heck, we as recs dont have any real data on our take other than a few samples at public ramps fed into algorithms that extrapolate that data and apply it across the board.
You do remember how we got to 4 specks don't ya. ?
HotSoup
Old Mossy Horns
Real data, well..I know very few good flounder fisherman.
I'll give you this data on the licenses in my family and neighbors at the beach
Me 18
Brother 0
His FIL 0
SIL 0
Nephew 0
Neighbor 1
Neighbor 0
Neighbor 0
Neighbor 2
Neighbor 0
Yep.....we absolutely slay them.
darenative
Twelve Pointer
Looks like you need to start teaching those folks to flounder fish
Wilmywood
Button Buck
Out catch, not out harvest. You are correct, the amount of recreational anglers vastly outnumbers the amount of commercial fishermen. Yet they are allowed 70% of the harvest?? Seems pretty lopsided to me if the resource should be shared by everyone.
Furthermore, the total economic impact of the flounder fishery from the recreational far outweighs any revenue garnered from the commercial side. All you have to do is look on page 18-19 of the Fishery Management plan.
(https://files.nc.gov/ncdeq/Marine-Fisheries/02-2021-mfc-meeting/Fishery-Management-Plans-Package.pdf)
Wilmywood
Button Buck
Ill break it down for you for the yearly averages over the 10 year period
Average Yearly Commercial Added economic impact: $ 14,665,220
Average Yearly Commercial estimated employment impact: 1,387
Average Yearly Recreational Added economic impact: $ 133,192,104
Average Yearly Recreational estimated employment impact: 2,153
Average Yearly Commercial Added economic impact: $ 14,665,220
Average Yearly Commercial estimated employment impact: 1,387
Average Yearly Recreational Added economic impact: $ 133,192,104
Average Yearly Recreational estimated employment impact: 2,153
Wilmywood
Button Buck
I think everyone has some share in the blame. It's completely unrealistic to place the blame on one side. The meat haul attitude needs to change as does the the commercial fishing practices / quota. We are never going to fix anything pointing fingers at one another.
Justin
Old Mossy Horns
if the meat haul attitude needs to change, what bothers you about the reduced flounder limits?
If it’s the numbers you’re catching that bother you, I don’t know what to tell you. Spot runs are down, but they’re making a come back, but you don’t have to remember that far back when recs were hiking hauling trashcans and coolers full off the piers daily.
Estuary trawling is about the only thing I want to see slowed a little. Other than that, if it ain’t broke. Small mesh gill net bans are absurd. They have a time and place and more laws won’t stop the misuse of something that’s got a valid place in the toolshed.
Id venture to say a ban on posting pictures and videos on social media by fishermen would go a LOT further in fisheries management than anything.....hunting too as far as that goes.
darenative
Twelve Pointer
It always goes from purpose, integrity, and fairness talk, to all about the disparities of economic value between user groups. MFC is bound by law to manage for both user groups period.
I live in the center of the state. Used to make it down to the coast a few times a year to fish. I can’t claim all the throw back stuff like other folks can. As a family, if it was legal, it hit the cooler.
As far as the new flounder rules...it seems a little restricting. Call it poaching if you want to....but if a man wants flounder for dinner, I’m not the one to stand in their way.
data is out there showing the problems predators have on other wildlife (coyotes). Can anyone show data regarding the diminishing flounder?
As far as the new flounder rules...it seems a little restricting. Call it poaching if you want to....but if a man wants flounder for dinner, I’m not the one to stand in their way.
data is out there showing the problems predators have on other wildlife (coyotes). Can anyone show data regarding the diminishing flounder?
HotSoup
Old Mossy Horns
I agree 100% it's a shame a man pays for a yearly license and can catch a flounder but then has to throw it back and go to the fish market to pay $12-16/lb for fillets
DRS
Old Mossy Horns
Why are there not separate regulations by species? Trouble identifying species? I thought the same about black bass in fresh water, but the the NCWRC sure changed that. Why can't the MFC, do the same. I have caught plenty of summer flounder in NC.
darenative
Twelve Pointer
Yep, they think the average joe cant tell em apart well enough to avoid a ticket. Nc probably has more SW anglers from out of state than in state. From an enforcement standpoint, i can understand it. However, it still pisses me off to be told since joe from pa can't tell em apart, you cant keep em.
coachcornbread
Ten Pointer
If it’s like duck hunting it’s probably more for the wardens. I’ve met more than my fair share of wardens that couldn’t tell you the difference between a hen mallard and a black duck.
Steelshot
Eight Pointer
So the rec limit is now reduced , does that mean that the commercial limit is reduced as well?
Justin
Old Mossy Horns
Let’s hope not!
Wanchese
Twelve Pointer
The quota is reduced for everyone.
The commercial season is going to be shorter than it was last year. That was already in the FMP guidelines.
All of this was already in the FMP that was adopted that created last years reductions. This happening was in writing two or three years ago. The FMP has targets in that can not be met in a one year time frame, so you get increasing regulations until those targets are met. All of it is based on data that is two or three years old. Any positive results because of last years changes won’t even make it into this discussion for a couple more years.
The CCA crowd got recs to raise hell about the flounder fishery and they got exactly what was asked for. Reduced harvest.
Justin
Old Mossy Horns
Now.... if we just go to in-line circle hooks for stuff over 2/0 and put a size limit on dolphin, we shall achieve fisheries nirvana.... wait a minute......