Effects of Trump Administration's revised Federal Tax Plan worked as advertised for me

Firedog

Old Mossy Horns
Contributor
Either people are lying or some people are saying they are owing THOUSANDS of dollars while only seeing small amounts less taken out of withholding.
Or people are ignorant or just stupid. It is my favorite game on tax day..ask people how much tax they paid. All you hear is about a refund. Bet you my next pay check that less than 10% of people in the US can tell you how much income tax they paid last year, in real dollars or as a percent of income.
 

Shaggy

Old Mossy Horns
Or people are ignorant or just stupid. It is my favorite game on tax day..ask people how much tax they paid. All you hear is about a refund. Bet you my next pay check that less than 10% of people in the US can tell you how much income tax they paid last year, in real dollars or as a percent of income.
Reading some of the tweets it seems most people are reacting by saying the $20 to $50 bucks a pay period basically goes unnoticed while the reduction in refunds was quite noticeable.

I looked over both my 2017 and 2018 W2's last night. The results were minuscule for me
 

Firedog

Old Mossy Horns
Contributor
Reading some of the tweets it seems most people are reacting by saying the $20 to $50 bucks a pay period basically goes unnoticed while the reduction in refunds was quite noticeable.

I looked over both my 2017 and 2018 W2's last night. The results were minuscule for me
Sounds like your tweeters have no idea how to manage money.. and no idea how much tax they actually pay.. which is the entire point of withholding.

again W2's are not relevant.. all they tell you is income and WITHHOLDING. Compare the finished returns and then tell us the actual result.. and make sure you take in to account any change in income that would have moved you into a different bracket.. The most accurate measurement is to do your 2018 taxes under the 2017 laws and then again under the 2018 law and compare the results.
 

turkeyfoot

Old Mossy Horns
Ill find out next week what mine says doing rough estimate on my own shows me hundred or so less than last year with making just little more I don't ever get any big refund so I'm in no hurry druther have my money at payday
 

downeastnc

Twelve Pointer
Sounds like your tweeters have no idea how to manage money.. and no idea how much tax they actually pay.. which is the entire point of withholding.

again W2's are not relevant.. all they tell you is income and WITHHOLDING. Compare the finished returns and then tell us the actual result.. and make sure you take in to account any change in income that would have moved you into a different bracket.. The most accurate measurement is to do your 2018 taxes under the 2017 laws and then again under the 2018 law and compare the results.
Meh Trump said his tax cut was like a 4k pay raise......and well its not even close for millions of middle class people. Twitter is full of people having to pay thousands when they normally get refunds....I certainly did not see a extra $333 monthly in my pay checks.

This is going to be a huge problem for Trump maybe bigger than any other issue he has faced......people feel like they are getting less whether they really are or not.....thats all that matters. So even if they actually pd a lower rate and took home more money over the course of the year it wasnt enough to change their life at all and now the one thing they do look forward to ( the big refund ) is gone. I understand that these people did actually pay less in taxes but a extra $50 a check isnt going to be felt but that big refund going away or turning into a thousand dollar tax bill certainly is.
 

Tipmoose

Administrator
Staff member
Contributor
And yet....his approval is right back where it was before. Between 42-50%. That sky screaming hasn't paid off for you guys yet. Maybe next week.
 

MJ74

Old Mossy Horns
But How much did you PAY as a % of your income.. that is the only number that matters.. the rest, as others have said, is all about withholding tables.
Are we just talking Federal or all taxes?

Anyone care to say their percenrage?
Just curious what % most folks pay.

Sent from my LG-US996 using Tapatalk
 

downeastnc

Twelve Pointer
And yet....his approval is right back where it was before. Between 42-50%. That sky screaming hasn't paid off for you guys yet. Maybe next week.
Give it time as more and more people do their taxes and see no returns or actual tax bills....this could hurt Trump with his base more than any other issue so far...then again maybe not his base is pretty forgiving.....
 

pattersonj11

Old Mossy Horns
Meh Trump said his tax cut was like a 4k pay raise......and well its not even close for millions of middle class people. Twitter is full of people having to pay thousands when they normally get refunds....I certainly did not see a extra $333 monthly in my pay checks.

This is going to be a huge problem for Trump maybe bigger than any other issue he has faced......people feel like they are getting less whether they really are or not.....thats all that matters. So even if they actually pd a lower rate and took home more money over the course of the year it wasnt enough to change their life at all and now the one thing they do look forward to ( the big refund ) is gone. I understand that these people did actually pay less in taxes but a extra $50 a check isnt going to be felt but that big refund going away or turning into a thousand dollar tax bill certainly is.
I have really tried to figure you out and read a ton of posts in th background. I am no closer now than I was on post number one. Are you saying that the new tax changes have been detrimental to you?
 

downeastnc

Twelve Pointer
I have really tried to figure you out and read a ton of posts in th background. I am no closer now than I was on post number one. Are you saying that the new tax changes have been detrimental to you?
I am waiting for the tax forms to compare to last year, I file jointly and we made a few thousand more than last year so I will compare it to last year to see what the difference is but in the end I think I am breaking about even. I am sure lots of people made out well with the new tax rules....I just didnt see any real change versus last year but I need to compare once I get all the paperwork.

There are tons of people that apparently are getting hosed.....basically they got back a little more in the paychecks but now since they can not itemize deductions they are paying in thousands.....so they kept a little bit more every month but now get a way smaller refund or actually owe...standard deductions doubled yet people are seeing the refunds slashed or even owing money.....

Twitter has several threads going with people complaining.....go read it decide for yourself if they have a legit gripe or not...

 

sky hawk

Old Mossy Horns
Contributor
I understand that these people did actually pay less in taxes but a extra $50 a check isnt going to be felt but that big refund going away or turning into a thousand dollar tax bill certainly is.
I hear what you are saying, perception is reality. But just because the loudest and most ignorant voices on twitter can't figure out how much taxes they really paid, or whether it "felt" like they were getting more or less doesn't mean tax reform was bad or that it will be a negative for the president.

Yes, there is a reason why car salesmen ask, "What do you want your payment to be?", but keep in mind, the loudest voices are often the most foolish. There may be thousands of people on twitter ranting, while there are many millions at home pleased with the outcome. I wouldn't use a collective twitter rant as having your finger on the pulse of the nation.

Shaggy said in another thread that tax reform has added a trillion dollars to our national debt. If that's the case, just exactly where did that money go do you suppose? Seems like there's a flaw in the accounting somewhere, and according to you guys Trump hosed us on both ends.
 

pattersonj11

Old Mossy Horns
I am waiting for the tax forms to compare to last year, I file jointly and we made a few thousand more than last year so I will compare it to last year to see what the difference is but in the end I think I am breaking about even. I am sure lots of people made out well with the new tax rules....I just didnt see any real change versus last year but I need to compare once I get all the paperwork.

There are tons of people that apparently are getting hosed.....basically they got back a little more in the paychecks but now since they can not itemize deductions they are paying in thousands.....so they kept a little bit more every month but now get a way smaller refund or actually owe...standard deductions doubled yet people are seeing the refunds slashed or even owing money.....

Twitter has several threads going with people complaining.....go read it decide for yourself if they have a legit gripe or not...

I have owed at tax time since I first accepted a salaried position. I really could not care less about it one way or another. Some of the biggest complainers are people that don’t pay crap in anyway.
 

downeastnc

Twelve Pointer
I hear what you are saying, perception is reality. But just because the loudest and most ignorant voices on twitter can't figure out how much taxes they really paid, or whether it "felt" like they were getting more or less doesn't mean tax reform was bad or that it will be a negative for the president.

Yes, there is a reason why car salesmen ask, "What do you want your payment to be?", but keep in mind, the loudest voices are often the most foolish. There may be thousands of people on twitter ranting, while there are many millions at home pleased with the outcome. I wouldn't use a collective twitter rant as having your finger on the pulse of the nation.

Shaggy said in another thread that tax reform has added a trillion dollars to our national debt. If that's the case, just exactly where did that money go do you suppose? Seems like there's a flaw in the accounting somewhere, and according to you guys Trump hosed us on both ends.
I am kind of just looking at this from a middle class perspective, most of these people on twitter dont seem like fools to me, the message was this tax cut was going to really make a impact on the middle class. The problem is the withholding rule changes plus the deduction rule changes mean people dont get refunds or even owe.....add to that that most people didnt see any real change in their day to day paychecks and well its not hard to see how folks are pissed off. Personally I didnt notice a difference, the tax cuts had little to no change on my money situation, maybe it was better for you. I guess I kinda thought I would do better than last year...

I agree though its early in this to really get a feel how the general mood is among the middle class. there could be tons of people that are fine with it.....I havent ran across to many middle class people though that claim to be noticeably better off this tax season than the last several....but again its early in the tax season it will be interesting to see how many middle class folks feel like they did better this year versus the last few.
 
.add to that that most people didnt see any real change in their day to day paychecks and well its not hard to see how folks are pissed off. Personally I didnt notice a difference, the tax cuts had little to no change on my money situation, maybe it was better for you.
So you are saying that you were paying the same tax percentage, or you just "didn't notice" that you were taking home more money? When it comes to finances there is no "didn't notice" Numbers are numbers and they either changed or stayed the same. If you are salaried it is as easy as comparing previous paystubs. To say that you didnt notice is just admitting negligence in your finances .

Im middle class, I paid 18% less in taxes this year. Not that refunds matter, but my refund was about the same, I just took home more in each paycheck.
 

MJ74

Old Mossy Horns
I just looked and I paid $3500 less this year in Federal taxes then last year.
I haven't filed yet so I'm not sure what's going to happen there, but I normally have to pay a little.

Sent from my LG-US996 using Tapatalk
 

Tipmoose

Administrator
Staff member
Contributor
I am kind of just looking at this from a middle class perspective, most of these people on twitter dont seem like fools to me,
I stopped reading right here. Your entire argument after this point is invalid. Most of the people on Twitter most definitely are imbeciles. If they weren't they wouldn't freakin be on Twitter.
 

Papa_Smurf

Ten Pointer
Contributor
Had a few people discussing refunds, withholding, and effective tax rates. I'll share some of my info comparing last year's returns to this years. included the child info so others can see how that impacts things as well.



2017 - married filing jointly
Adjusted Gross Income = $138,935
Taxes = $19,308
Withholding = $19,294
Amount Owed at Filing = $ 14
Effective Tax Rate = 13.9%

2018 - Married Filing Jointly (Had a child early 2018)
Adjusted Gross Income = $150,346
Taxes = $19,669
Withholding = $18,093
Child Tax Credit = $2000
Child Dependent Care Credit = $600
Amount Refunded = $1024
Effective Tax Rate = 13.1%


If we hadn't had the child, we would have owed $1,576 this year, but overall taxes went up only ~$350, while income went up $11,500. Not a bad trade off!
 
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nckeith

Eight Pointer
Had a few people discussing refunds, withholding, and effective tax rates. I'll share some of my info comparing last year's returns to this years. included the child info so others can see how that impacts things as well.



2017 - married filing jointly
Adjusted Gross Income = $138,935
Taxes = $19,308
Withholding = $19,294
Amount Owed at Filing = $ 14
Effective Tax Rate = 13.9%

2018 - Married Filing Jointly (Had a child early 2018)
Adjusted Gross Income = $150,346
Taxes = $19,669
Withholding = $18,093
Child Tax Credit = $2000
Child Dependent Care Credit = $600
Amount Refunded = $1024
Effective Tax Rate = 13.1%


If we hadn't had the child, we would have owed $1,576 this year, but overall taxes went up only ~$350, while income went up $11,500. Not a bad trade off!
I commend you for using math. As they say the math is the math. You earned more and paid less.
I made slightly less, kept way more and yet I owe taxes. Usually I break even in refunds, however the 10k cap hit me and a year end bonus, that luckily I put aside to pay taxes. However, overall dollar per dollar I kept more of the money I earned. That’s a win in my books.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Firedog

Old Mossy Horns
Contributor
I am kind of just looking at this from a middle class perspective, most of these people on twitter dont seem like fools to me, the message was this tax cut was going to really make a impact on the middle class. The problem is the withholding rule changes plus the deduction rule changes mean people dont get refunds or even owe.....add to that that most people didnt see any real change in their day to day paychecks and well its not hard to see how folks are pissed off. Personally I didnt notice a difference, the tax cuts had little to no change on my money situation, maybe it was better for you. I guess I kinda thought I would do better than last year...

I agree though its early in this to really get a feel how the general mood is among the middle class. there could be tons of people that are fine with it.....I havent ran across to many middle class people though that claim to be noticeably better off this tax season than the last several....but again its early in the tax season it will be interesting to see how many middle class folks feel like they did better this year versus the last few.
Define middle class in your book
 

downeastnc

Twelve Pointer
So you are saying that you were paying the same tax percentage, or you just "didn't notice" that you were taking home more money? When it comes to finances there is no "didn't notice" Numbers are numbers and they either changed or stayed the same. If you are salaried it is as easy as comparing previous paystubs. To say that you didnt notice is just admitting negligence in your finances .

Im middle class, I paid 18% less in taxes this year. Not that refunds matter, but my refund was about the same, I just took home more in each paycheck.
I work a lot of overtime and the amount of hrs paycheck to paycheck for me can vary by 20-30 hrs.....the money I got to keep from changes in the withholding didnt impact my checks enough for me to be like "wow" those tax cuts sure made a difference and are really noticeable....so yeah in my case I didnt notice any real change....
 

Shaggy

Old Mossy Horns
I stopped reading right here. Your entire argument after this point is invalid. Most of the people on Twitter most definitely are imbeciles. If they weren't they wouldn't freakin be on Twitter.
Trump is a twitter user bigly.

I paid $897 less federally, paid an extra $75 to SS tax and about $30 more to Medicare tax this year compared to last. My refund was $490 less than last years.
 

downeastnc

Twelve Pointer
Define middle class in your book
Around here I would consider a household middle class if the income was between 55-150ish.....it varies though based on the COL of the given area.....150k here is a lot though its getting not to be, in Raleigh not so much.....
 
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