Does CWD Even Exist?

QuietButDeadly

Old Mossy Horns
Contributor
More Science to follow......

Was There Ever a Chronic Wasting Disease (CWD)?
Horace Gore, Wildlife Biologist
Was there ever a chronic wasting disease (CWD)? Science says “N0.” If not, then what is CWD? Researchers at USDA, Agricultural Research Service, Ames, Iowa using the Western Blot test say that CWD is “indistinguishable” from scrapie, a sheep disease that was first found in sheep in 1732, but not known in cervids (deer, elk, moose, etc).Their work shows that CWD has the same molecular profile as scrapie. In essence, “Chronic Wasting Disease” per se never has existed, and scrapie is not an insidious disease of cervids, having existed in Texas and U.S. environs for 300 years.
In a continuing study by a team headed by Dr. Justin Greenlee to determine if scrapie can be transmitted to white-tailed deer, and returned from deer to sheep, researchers learned that deer are 100 % susceptible to scrapie. The study also determined that standard IHC and Elisa tests are not adequate for differentiating CWD and scrape. This indicates that past CWD surveillance work in Texas, using these two tests, has shown a false hypothesis. The molecular profiles of CWD and scrapie (PrPSc), using the Western Blot test, show to be one in the same.
Research on CWD and scrapie goes even further. Dr. Greenlee’s USDA team has looked into the molecular profiles of scrapie in three genotypes of sheep, and compared them to CWD in mule deer. One of the sheep genotypes is “indistinguishable” from CWD. Two sheep genotypes show differences in profile, but when tested separately, they show a lot of overlap with mule deer CWD.
The USDA team believes that CWD came from sheep (scrapie) to mule deer; then to elk, and then to whitetails and other cervids. Like all research teams, they say that “Another study is needed……..” However, to date they believe, based on a combination of research factors, that CWD did come from sheep, which means that CWD is either scrapie, or a variant of scrapie.
Let’s sum it up: A transmissible spongiform encephalopathy (TSE) that was discovered 55 years ago, and called “Chronic Wasting Disease” (CWD) has now been determined to have the same molecular profile as scrapie, which has been known for 300 years. It would seem prudent then, to assume that CWD is simply scrapie, or a variant of scrapie, which has been a part of our environment for three centuries or more.
The discovery of “CWD” in 1967 was a scientific blunder! The entire scenario that Dr. Elizabeth Williams, a veterinary pathologist from Wyoming, faced at Colorado State was simply a mule deer, mixed with sheep and elk, that became ill in the research pen. She took this illness as being a new TSE, and labeled It “Chronic Wasting Disease”, when in truth the disease of the mule deer was simply scrapie.
All of the animals, according to the literature, were being fed a crude diet as part of the research. The diet, along with scrapie, may have been the cause of debilitation in the mule deer. At the time, Dr. Williams had no way of knowing that the malady was scrapie, because the sheep disease was not known in cervids, and she relied on test methods of that time that could not distinguish between the molecular profiles of scrapie and her new “CWD.” Dr. William’s discovery was a false hypothesis that has spread across the deer hunting World and academic circles, with no proof or accountability.
It seems that the research team at Colorado State made an honest mistake, brought about by an academic desire to find a new TSE—Chronic Wasting Disease. However, Dr. Williams hung a bell on her false CWD that has been followed by sheep- like state and federal authorities—most not knowing exactly why they are following the bell. However,Texas state agencies have used CWD, with no legislated authority, in their agenda to control and harass landowners, deer hunters, and deer breeders for the last 10 years.
Truth is, Texas Animal Health Commission has absolutely no authority over white-tailed or Mule deer in Texas, and Texas Parks and Wildlife has no authority to depopulate (Kill) breeder deer without a demand for such action from TAHC. So, depopulation of thousands of breeder deer over the last 10 years has been illegal.
Is CWD/scrape a deadly disease? Not hardly. Dr. James Kroll, white-tailed deer specialist, author, and past Czar of Wisconsin’s deer program puts it rather bluntly in two questions. 1) Does CWD/scrape have any effect on deer herds? The answer is NO. White-tailed deer are thriving in Texas, and expanding their range. Not a single whitetail is known to have died from CWD. 2) Does CWD/scrape have any effect on human health? The answer is NO. Texans annually consume about 15 million pounds of deer meat, and a loop on the human protein prevents the rogue prions of CWD/scrapie from engaging with human proteins. The summation to these two questions is “No”, and that CWD/scrapie is not a problem to cervids or human health.
Dr. Williams “jumped the gun,” as they say, and was probably anxious to get academic notoriety, and possibly some good grants. However, from what is known today, the "Chronic Wasting Disease" that Williams found is nothing but scrapie, and there never was a chronic wasting disease!
Remember, CWD didn't come from the Bible—it was derived by Dr. Beth Williams and a research team at Colorado State! The “deadly” and “insidious” disease has been over-blown, and the 206,000 tests in Texas ($10 million) are worthless. Not one whitetail is known to have died ANYWHERE from CWD/scrapie, and the entire Texas fiasco has been aimed at landowners, hunters, and deer breeders.
There is good reason to consider CWD as being scrapie. This, from Dr. Justin Greenlee, USDA, Ames, Iowa using the Western Blot test, is significant:
“In our study, 100% of whitetails were susceptible to scrape”
"Scrapie transmits to white-tailed deer by the oral route, and has a molecular profile similar to CWD, and is distinct from the scrapie inoculum.''
"While scrapie is not known to occur in wild deer, experimental cases are difficult to differentiate from CWD."
“Some molecular profiles of CWD and scrapie are indistinguishable using the Western blot test.”
"We have previously demonstrated that scrapie has a 100% attack rate in white-tailed deer after either intracranial or oral inoculation. Samples that developed scrapie had TWO distinct Western Blot test patterns: Samples developed from cerebellum had a banding pattern similar to the scrapie inoculum, WHEREAS, samples from brainstem and lymph nodes had a banding pattern similar to CWD."
 

QuietButDeadly

Old Mossy Horns
Contributor
continued........

“The results of this study suggest MANY similarities in the manifestations of CWD and scrapie in white-tailed deer.”
“We believe that CWD came from sheep to mule deer; then to elk, and then to white-tailed deer and other cervids.” (Sheep are infected by only one TSE—scrapie)
There were 55 million sheep in the U.S in 1940, and prions of scrapie could be anywhere. That might explain why “CWD” shows up without any pattern of distribution.
Street talk would say that CWD and scrapie are one in the same, with” CWD” simply being a variant of scrapie. But regardless of the similarity of CWD and scrapie, the thousands of IHC and Elisa tests performed in Texas are useless, and Western Blot test was never used. The CWD Control Program has followed a false hypothesis based on inadequate testing methods, and in some cases, questionable agendas.
Based on the new evidence that CWD and scrapie are “indistinguishable” using Western Blotting, state agencies should follow the science, and stop all surveillance of CWD using IHC and Elisa tests until continued research using Western Blotting, shows a distinct molecular profile for both CWD and scrapie. Texas landowners, deer breeders and hunters have been harassed by the false CWD hypothesis long enough!
Why is it that every day I find something erratic about the leadership of Texas Parks and Wildlife, and the hypocrisy in support for various programs? Is it because I worked there for 33 years, and can see under the cover?
The Share a Lunker vs. the Texas Deer Breeders programs are prime examples of leadership that is hypocritical, and short on the needs of the people of Texas. The Fisheries Division loves one, and the Wildlife Division hates the other, and Law Enforcement is somewhere in between.
I was in Wildlife Division leadership for 27 years, in close relationship to headquarters operations. I know how TPWD works, and there is plenty of room for hypocrisy.
A good example of 30 years ago was the Texas Big Game Awards, which was designed after the Share a Lunker program to recognize outstanding big game harvested in Texas. The Wildlife Division leadership rejected it because it promoted trophy deer, but Chairman Chuck Nash backed it, and it became a reality. It was continually opposed by the Wildlife Division, and I had to transfer it to David Langford and the Texas Wildlife Association, which administers the awards today.
Texas fishermen and deer hunters have a keen interest in big bass and trophy whitetails. Two programs are now underway to provide the best in bass fishing and deer hunting--The Share a Lunker program to get the best genetically superior bass into the hatcheries to provide fingerlings for stocking Texas lakes--and private deer breeding facilities that provide genetically superior deer for stocking habitat to make available trophy whitetails for deer hunters The programs are identical in purpose, but Texas Parks and Wildlife Department praises the trophy bass program, and demonizes the trophy deer program! In fact, the department has done everything possible to discourage deer breeding, from permit harassment to depopulating (killing) complete deer herds where a positive of "Chronic Wasting Disease" is found. The interest of TPWD for the programs are exactly opposite, even though both programs are designed to provide the best in fishing and hunting. It is pure hypocrisy.
I was reminded of these programs when two 14-plus pound black bass were recently caught in Lake Ivey, a 30-year-old lake on the Colorado and Concho rivers in Concho, Coleman and Runnels counties. The two trophy fish got national attention and were taken to a Parks and Wildlife fish hatchery to be used for breeding to provide superior fingerlings for stocking Texas lakes. The Share a Lunker program is highly publicized and favored by the Texas Parks and Wildlife Department, while the department despises the deer breeder program, even though both have the same objective for deer hunters and bass fisherman.
Deer breeders have been harassed for years by two state agencies that have used a farce deer disease to make it hard for a breeder to stay in business. They have never known exactly what the disease was, but they used it to demoralize deer breeding, and sometimes kill all of the breeder's valuable deer. The disease was labeled "Chronic Wasting Disease" by the Colorado State research team that discovered it back in 1967, and publicized it as "an insidious, deadly deer disease that was contagious and probably deadly for human consumption". All of these assumptions were false, along with the finding of a new deer disease.
Now, 55 years later the USDA at Ames, Iowa has found, through Western Blot testing, that the insidious malady is nothing more than scrapie, a disease of sheep that has been known for over 300 years, but was not known to be susceptible to cervids (deer, elk, moose, etc). But the die was cast, and Texas continues testing for CWD/scrapie using old standard tests which are worthless, rather than Western Blotting. The fiasco of CWD could have been prevented had TVMDL used Western Blotting, which would have revealed the common molecular profile between CWD and scrapie, and saved $10 million and thousands of breeder deer. Oh, Well!
A Texas mule deer tested positive in 2012. Since then, TPWD has checked all deer breeding facilities and found CWD/scrapie using IHC and Elisa tests. The result was a depopulation (killing) of thousands of suspect deer by a wildlife agency that really didn't know what CWD was, or what affect it really had on deer. The deadly nature of CWD/scrape was a sham, and not one deer has ever been confirmed to have died from the disease. But, regardless of the science that revealed no CWD--only scrapie, TPWD and TAHC still harass deer breeders with the nonexistent CWD. Their desire to place hardships on deer breeders surpasses the science that shows the molecular profile of PrPSc being the same for CWD and scrapie. There lies the hypocrisy.
The bottom line is that trophy bass breeding has been praised and promoted over the years, while deer breeding has been demonized and discouraged. The hypocritical actions of Texas Parks and Wildlife, and the Texas Animal Health Commission are shameful and should be corrected. The differences in support of trophy bass breeding and trophy deer breeding should be curtailed immediately, and both programs should receive the best efforts of Texas Parks and Wildlife.
On a lighter note, the whitetail buck photos are superb, and some will likely appear on the cover of the TTHA Journal. We appreciate you sharing them with us, and of course, we want you to take more! Muy bueno, mi amigo! (I'm practicing for all the illegal immigrants coming across the river. I hope they don't bring something that is contagious to old wildlife biologists).
Horace Gore
Retired Wildlife Biologist
 

woodmoose

Administrator
Staff member
Contributor
so I made it to hunt caribou in Quebec just before the herd size dropped, and dropped hard,,

there were so many sick caribou it wasn't funny,,, symptoms just like what they call CWD

there was a 4 man crew of Wyoming Game Wardens there as well (chasing caribou with stick bows - my kind of guys) - they said that the symptoms were remarkedly similar to scrapie,,,
 

JONOV

Twelve Pointer
Whether or not its scrapie or CWD makes little difference in my mind...
In fact Scrapie is arguably worse, considering it's thought that BSE (Mad Cow) originated as scrapie and made the jump.
 

JONOV

Twelve Pointer
It is interesting that this report claims that there have been no proven cases of CWD fatality, yet everything we hear from our wildlife professionals is that it is 100% fatal.
I'd be interested to see their sources for that. In nature, from what I understand IF they avoid being hit by a car, or brought down by a coyote or other predator, they'll die of starvation, even with an abundance of row crops. It's a neurodegenerative disease...eventually among other problems they lose their ability to chew and swallow.

From QDMA...so take it for what its worth, but interesting article.
 

Deep River

Eight Pointer
Contributor
I'd be interested to see their sources for that. In nature, from what I understand IF they avoid being hit by a car, or brought down by a coyote or other predator, they'll die of starvation, even with an abundance of row crops. It's a neurodegenerative disease...eventually among other problems they lose their ability to chew and swallow.

From QDMA...so take it for what its worth, but interesting article.
Yeah. My comment was meant to suggest that there is something amiss with this report suggesting that there is no such thing as CWD.
 

QuietButDeadly

Old Mossy Horns
Contributor
A couple of points I gleaned from the article. What a biologist dubbed as CWD (supposedly an new disease on the landscape) is really just scrapie that has been known for 300 years. The other was Dr James Kroll's statement that CWD/Scrapie has NO affect on human health.
 

Moose

Administrator
Staff member
Contributor
Interesting story from a hunter who's land is In a hot zone for CWD. Interesting that they are seeing most of their postive cases on his land are bucks. I would also think butchers would want to find out prior to cutting up the meat if it's postive or negative on the testing. Game changer for sure as it shows up more and more places.

 

Moose

Administrator
Staff member
Contributor
The above article states that it's a fact that cwd can transfer to monkeys who were fed meat from infected animal. That would be alarming but it's not actually been proven. Here is an article about that.....

I don't want to feed into the hysteria around the zombie deer disease bit will keep watching for additional studies on it so when the time comes I can try to make an educated decision about whether to consume or throw it away if I have a deer with CWD
 

JJWise

Ten Pointer
It is interesting that this report claims that there have been no proven cases of CWD fatality, yet everything we hear from our wildlife professionals is that it is 100% fatal.
I’m not an expert by any means, but from what I understand is that CWD *would* kill every deer that gets infected. But it seems to take years to get to that stage, and the vast majority die from cars, hunters, EHD, predators, etc long before CWD has a chance to kill them. I’ve seen some videos from Wisconsin where they’ve seen deer die directly from CWD but I haven’t seen many instances of that anywhere else.
 

Deep River

Eight Pointer
Contributor
I’m not an expert by any means, but from what I understand is that CWD *would* kill every deer that gets infected. But it seems to take years to get to that stage, and the vast majority die from cars, hunters, EHD, predators, etc long before CWD has a chance to kill them. I’ve seen some videos from Wisconsin where they’ve seen deer die directly from CWD but I haven’t seen many instances of that anywhere else.
The conclusion sounds reasonable, but there is a very wide gulf between no proven cases of CWD fatality and concluding that it is 100% fatal. How can anyone conclude that it is 100% fatal if it has never been proven to kill a deer? How do we know that there are not many deer walking around out there that have it, but are permanently asymptomatic, for example.

If there is video evidence in Wisconsin of deer apparently dying of CWD, why was it never conclusively confirmed by autopsy? Even it if was, does that mean that every deer will die from it?

I am sure there is more to this story and there is more evidence out there than either of us are citing. Still, concluding that it is 100% fatal seems like a stretch at this point.
 

JONOV

Twelve Pointer
The above article states that it's a fact that cwd can transfer to monkeys who were fed meat from infected animal. That would be alarming but it's not actually been proven. Here is an article about that.....

I don't want to feed into the hysteria around the zombie deer disease bit will keep watching for additional studies on it so when the time comes I can try to make an educated decision about whether to consume or throw it away if I have a deer with CWD
Yes, Cannibalism in any animal can cause similar problems (humans included.)

scrapie it is- no one will know what in the hell you are saying when you declare that Scrapie has killed em all.
A farmer can correct me if I'm wrong, but if an animal on your farm tests positive for scrapie, don't they destroy the whole herd?

The conclusion sounds reasonable, but there is a very wide gulf between no proven cases of CWD fatality and concluding that it is 100% fatal. How can anyone conclude that it is 100% fatal if it has never been proven to kill a deer? How do we know that there are not many deer walking around out there that have it, but are permanently asymptomatic, for example.
Where does that come from? CWD was first discovered in a Ft Collins research facility. Deer were kept in the same pens as sheep that had been in a scrapie study and they thought it made the jump there. I think its a stretch to say that they didn't research the course and progression of the disease; after all, it's what those facilities do.
 

Deep River

Eight Pointer
Contributor
Where does that come from? CWD was first discovered in a Ft Collins research facility. Deer were kept in the same pens as sheep that had been in a scrapie study and they thought it made the jump there. I think its a stretch to say that they didn't research the course and progression of the disease; after all, it's what those facilities do.
"Dr. James Kroll, white-tailed deer specialist, author, and past Czar of Wisconsin’s deer program puts it rather bluntly in two questions. 1) Does CWD/scrape have any effect on deer herds? The answer is NO. White-tailed deer are thriving in Texas, and expanding their range. Not a single whitetail is known to have died from CWD."

Kroll is not a vet, but I would expect him to know the facts about this very big issue.
 

JJWise

Ten Pointer
"Dr. James Kroll, white-tailed deer specialist, author, and past Czar of Wisconsin’s deer program puts it rather bluntly in two questions. 1) Does CWD/scrape have any effect on deer herds? The answer is NO. White-tailed deer are thriving in Texas, and expanding their range. Not a single whitetail is known to have died from CWD."

Kroll is not a vet, but I would expect him to know the facts about this very big issue.
I’m sure Dr.Kroll is very knowledgeable, but it never hurts to find other sources to corroborate information. No one source, including the one I’ve linked is going to be the end-all-be-all of information.

One of the major points in the original post though is that CWD is just Scrapie, and we definitely know scrapie to be fatal.

 

Deep River

Eight Pointer
Contributor
I’m sure Dr.Kroll is very knowledgeable, but it never hurts to find other sources to corroborate information. No one source, including the one I’ve linked is going to be the end-all-be-all of information.

One of the major points in the original post though is that CWD is just Scrapie, and we definitely know scrapie to be fatal.

So, there appears to be evidence that CWD/Scrapie can be fatal in whitetails. That is still a long way from 100 percent fatal.

As you pointed out, the GIST of the article that started this conversation was that CWD is just Scrapie.

This article also references some sort of study that was done that concluded that whitetails are 100 percent susceptible to Scrapie. From what I gather, that is not true of sheep. Some sheep are not susceptible, and it depends on their genes. From what I have read, 100 percent of sheep that contract it will die from it. Do we know this to be the case for whitetails, or are we simply extrapolating from sheep? Might it not depend on a whitetail's genes?

If there is some sort of genetic advantage to be had, might everyone be better off just letting nature run its course? Due to the long incubation periods, CWD/Scrapie would never be eradicated but the makeup of future whitetail populations would be more resistant to it.
 

CJF

Old Mossy Horns
This was my taxidermist. He mounted my bear for me. I was at that wild game dinner. I lived at ground zero for CWD.

Town's Venison Banquet Puts a State on Alert​

By Michelle York
  • April 10, 2005
VERONA, N.Y., April 7 - For years, David L. Smith cooked wild game for his Fire Department's annual fund-raising sportsmen banquet. It was his way to help out after he retired from the department's volunteer corps.
At this year's banquet, on March 13, more than 300 townsfolk sampled his dishes -- the venison meatballs, chili and patties. Three weeks later, Mr. Smith was trying to forget the whole affair with a whiskey at the local V.F.W. "My wife said they'd come to get me," he said.
Through unlucky circumstance, tissue samples from a deer that one farmer donated for the banquet tested positive for chronic wasting disease, and the results were discovered after the meat had been eaten at the banquet. It is the deer version of mad cow disease, and the first documented case in New York.

Though people have become ill with mad cow disease from eating infected beef, no human is known to have become ill by eating infected venison. No one has even remotely blamed Mr. Smith. But his trepidation and dejection about the disease seemed to be felt throughout this rural area some 250 miles northwest of Manhattan, where deer hunting is part of the culture. "It's scary to a lot of people," said the V.F.W.'s bartender, Diana Dodge.

Since the disease was found, agriculture, health and environmental workers have been trying to find out how it came here and how many of the state's 10,000 deer might be infected.
The deer that tested positive was one of 18 being raised by an outdoors enthusiast, John Palmer, who lives in Westmoreland, a neighboring town.

  • Mr. Palmer operates a neatly kept taxidermy business in his garage, where deer mountings lined the entranceway and a black bear was still being stuffed. He sent the sample from the deer he donated as part of an annual state-mandated monitoring program -- not because he was suspicious of infection.
bear.jpg
Shortly after the first case was found, the state killed his entire herd to learn about the spread of the disease. Mr. Palmer appeared as dejected as the cook, saying with a shrug, "I'd love to comment, but I've been told by my attorney not to."

Tests later showed three other deer from Mr. Palmer's farm were also sick. "It wasn't all 18," said Jessica Chittenden, a spokeswoman for the state's Agriculture Department. "This leads us to believe it was a fairly recent introduction."

Investigators also linked the recent death of another deer to the disease. It was on land owned by Martin Proper, who lives near Mr. Palmer and obtained the deer from him.


Next week, conservationists will begin shooting 420 wild deer in the area to see if they, too, have the disease. Hubert A. Pritchard, a dairy farmer and the Westmoreland town supervisor, gave permission for hunting on his farmland, though his wife was sad about it. "I like to see the deer," said Nancy Pritchard, resting in a chair in her driveway, with a cat snuggling by her feet and a cow giving birth in the pasture across the road.
"If they take that many deer out of the area, it'll be a long time before they come back," Mr. Pritchard said. "But we don't know a lot about this disease, and I feel, err on the side of caution."
Another neighbor, Leo Wierzbicki, said he hunted every season and would eat the venison in his freezer. The Pritchards's son, James, agreed, "You don't stop eating beef because of mad cow disease."
Chronic wasting disease can be transmitted among deer through food and contact, scientists say. It is a part of a family of diseases that scientists believe are caused by a malformed protein, or a prion, that affects the brain and is always fatal.
Though the disease has not jumped between species, it is theoretically possible. The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention advises people against eating infected venison as a precautionary measure.

At the National Prion Disease Pathology Surveillance Center at Case Western Reserve University, experiments in transgenic mice are under way to determine the likelihood of the disease jumping from deer to humans, said Dr. Pierluigi Gambetti, director of the pathology center. Researchers are also trying to map out its unique characteristics, so that if it ever appears in humans, it can be easily linked to the deer disease and not to other prion diseases that kill 300 people annually nationwide.​


"Prion diseases are serious issues for public health," Dr. Gambetti said, because they affect both humans and animals, are contagious and are very infectious. For example, the diseases are thought to survive on surgical tools even after sterilization, he said.
Dr. Alfonso Torres, executive director of an animal health diagnostic center at Cornell University, said little research money for prion diseases had been spent on chronic wasting disease. "There are still a lot of scientific gaps in how the diseases work and are transmitted," he said, adding that scientists learned a lot from the mad cow threat that swept through Europe.
The Oneida County Health Department notified several hundred people who may have attended the banquet, and 68 of them responded, said spokesman Kenneth Fanelli, adding, "They're not particularly alarmed or concerned."
Many were reassured that other states had dealt with this disease for decades without human infection, he said, adding, "You can't ignore the 30 years of history."
At the V.F.W., Jack Knight agreed. He had eaten the venison and was joking with Mr. Smith, the cook. "It's no big deal," he said. "What are you going to do besides slap yourself upside the head? They say there's no danger."
"It will affect attendance next year," Mr. Smith said about the banquet. "I bet we won't sell 50 tickets."

So where do I live now? Outside Boonville in the containment area. I think I am a CWD carrier
 
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timekiller13

Old Mossy Horns
The conclusion sounds reasonable, but there is a very wide gulf between no proven cases of CWD fatality and concluding that it is 100% fatal. How can anyone conclude that it is 100% fatal if it has never been proven to kill a deer? How do we know that there are not many deer walking around out there that have it, but are permanently asymptomatic, for example.

If there is video evidence in Wisconsin of deer apparently dying of CWD, why was it never conclusively confirmed by autopsy? Even it if was, does that mean that every deer will die from it?

I am sure there is more to this story and there is more evidence out there than either of us are citing. Still, concluding that it is 100% fatal seems like a stretch at this point.
CWD is a neurodegenerative disease that will kill whatever creature has it, IF they live long enough and don’t die from something else. All TSEs are 100% fatal if contracted. They turn the brain into Swiss cheese.

It’s kind of like dementia/Alzheimer’s, eventually that will kill a person, but they usually die from something else first, like pneumonia or stroke etc.

And I don’t care one bit about CWD. I don’t think it’s the end of the world. I think wildlife departments blow it out of proportion. But, I am just presenting the known facts. The known facts are TSEs are 100% fatal.
 

Deep River

Eight Pointer
Contributor
The known facts are TSEs are 100% fatal.
I wonder if it might be more accurate to say that, based on scientific studies involving a small number of species it is reasonable to conclude that the TSEs that affect those species are 100 percent fatal.

Then, based on that conclusion and field observations involving limited other species and the TSEs that affect them, it is believed that TSEs may also be 100 percent fatal in those other limited species. White tails fall into this category.

Then, based on those two potential conclusions, it is surmised that all TSEs may be 100 percent fatal in all species if contracted.
 

JONOV

Twelve Pointer
I wonder if it might be more accurate to say that, based on scientific studies involving a small number of species it is reasonable to conclude that the TSEs that affect those species are 100 percent fatal.

Then, based on that conclusion and field observations involving limited other species and the TSEs that affect them, it is believed that TSEs may also be 100 percent fatal in those other limited species. White tails fall into this category.

Then, based on those two potential conclusions, it is surmised that all TSEs may be 100 percent fatal in all species if contracted.
Are you sure they're just field observations? Again, it first presented in captive herds at Colorado State University where they were researching deer and Elk.
 

Deep River

Eight Pointer
Contributor
Are you sure they're just field observations? Again, it first presented in captive herds at Colorado State University where they were researching deer and Elk.
nope. Are you sure that it isn't? The general GIST of what I am suggesting would be the same either way.
 

timekiller13

Old Mossy Horns
I wonder if it might be more accurate to say that, based on scientific studies involving a small number of species it is reasonable to conclude that the TSEs that affect those species are 100 percent fatal.

Then, based on that conclusion and field observations involving limited other species and the TSEs that affect them, it is believed that TSEs may also be 100 percent fatal in those other limited species. White tails fall into this category.

Then, based on those two potential conclusions, it is surmised that all TSEs may be 100 percent fatal in all species if contracted.
It’s 100% fatal. TSEs literally destroy the brain. A brain with a TSE looks horrific. The body cannot function without a working brain. It’s just not a rapid killer. It takes time. Sometimes animals die from something else before the TSE finishes them off.

All human cases of TSE are 100% fatal. Kuru (the laughing sickness), CJD are TSEs in humans. No human has ever survived. Physiologically, you cannot survive if you get a TSE because it destroys brain tissue and your body does not regenerate neurological cells.
 

Deep River

Eight Pointer
Contributor
It’s 100% fatal. TSEs literally destroy the brain. A brain with a TSE looks horrific. The body cannot function without a working brain. It’s just not a rapid killer. It takes time. Sometimes animals die from something else before the TSE finishes them off.

All human cases of TSE are 100% fatal. Kuru (the laughing sickness), CJD are TSEs in humans. No human has ever survived. Physiologically, you cannot survive if you get a TSE because it destroys brain tissue and your body does not regenerate neurological cells.
Yeah. Unless it doesn’t. Just sayin’. You don’t know and I don’t know. We can say what we think.

History is replete with purported scientific ‘fact’ that is later proven to be wrong.

edit: I will add that you folks who want to talk in terms of certainties may want to go back and review (or look at for the first time) statistics 101.
 
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