hoyt85
Six Pointer
I'm not saying that things should stay the same or that things should change. All I'm saying is it seems you've got the one group that is more or a "traditionalist" if you will. Call them old school, elitist, holier than thou, call them whatever you want to. They typically are very opinionated and have a strong belief in certain tactics and will not deviate from what they deem fair play. They prefer to play the game the "right" way. What they deem the right way is from years or dabbling in this or that and taking a step back and looking at the big picture and asking themselves what did they really accomplish. So they chalk it up to experience and hang that tactic up in the closet. Knowing that at any given time, they could pull it back out. However, they'd rather play the game in the manner in which they deem fair than to walk away feeling they cheated. It's their own personal mindset and belief. They know their equipment and tools like the back of their hand. The other group knows just enough to be dangerous. There is no line in the sand for this group that won't be crossed, Their tools and equipment are different, yet very effective. There is no proverbial closet where things are stored and no longer used. It's more so a treasure chest where if this doesn't' work we'll try this and if that doesn't work we'll do this. The pace and speed at which the second group will be successful is much quicker than the first group. The learning curve is taken away. It's a kill at all costs and it's for the fame and attention which is the complete opposite from the "traditionalist" group.
People want to bash or bring up TSS for example. TSS isn't killing more turkeys. PEOPLE are killing more turkeys with TSS who aren't educated, who are ignorant and haven't taken the time to understand what this game is all about. It's about like saying guns kill people. No, people with guns kill people. You hear it all the time, " 60 is the new 40". I can't argue nor deny the capability, but just because you can do something, doesn't mean you should. Companies have done a fabulous job of promoting unrealistic expectations and blatantly promoting the taking of an animal at distances that should never be heard of or thought of much less stamped on a dadgum box so they can get sales up. For the ones that initially started loading and shooting TSS, it was simply in exchange for a smaller, lighter platform that still produced adequate patterns at distances previously only achieved by larger calibers. It was not to extend the ethical range, it was not so those could start consistently shooting at ranges of 60 or 70 yards. That's where that logic and those opinions are flawed. However, the uneducated have and are pushing the envelope. The guy in the year 2022 that goes to the store and buys 2 boxes of TSS that promotes 60 yard kills and shoots at turkeys at that range and even further, is no different than the guy back in 1990 who picked up a box of #4's and shot at turkeys at 50 yards with an improved cylinder barrel. The only difference I see is the guy in 1990 may have actually "missed" that turkey at 50 yards. The guy in 2022 that shoots a load of 3 1/2" 9's at 70 yards....did he actually "miss"?
IMO, much of this is being uneducated and not understanding what is and what is not ethical. Not what someone else or another group or groups has deemed acceptable or unacceptable. It's a growing process and everyone has to go through stages, or at least should. Unfortunately, many are not maturing and are staying in the same stage. Why you ask? Because they're highly successful. It's easy. It's simple. Unfortunately this newer generation is all about what is the easiest, the simplest and achieves them the highest rate of success the quickest. And when I speak of being educated I'll give you a personal account.... This past season I was down in a southern state and got checked by the game warden, all was fine. I asked if he had checked any others and he said a few. Said he checked one guy that crippled one at 65 yards shooting lead number 4's. My friend told the game warden he had no business to ever shoot at a turkey that far, much less with lead number 4's. He looked at me and I quote, "If he had been shooting that TSS he would have obliterated that bird at 65 yards". Even that agent, someone who is supposed to try and uphold the laws and I would think should use events such as that as a teaching tool doesn't get it, which is sad.
Part of the reason the first group, the "traditionalist", if you will, look down on the second group is because the first group have taken their lumps, been through the growing pains. They know and remember all to well what it was like to not have turkeys, to not have a season, to have a county divided by a highway where you could hunt on this side, but not the other. To go seasons possibly in between kills. Or what it was like to be proud of the one or two birds that you were able to harvest in a single season. To be excited to see a turkey track on your property and how elated you actually were to see a bird for the first time on that property. They see the second group taking short cuts, cheating if you will. They're taking advantage of having ample opportunities....opportunities that the older crowd wasn't afforded that lead the the long hard road many of us traveled that the second group has never had to go down. The second group has no clue about what those days and times were like. All they know is they've always had turkeys, always killed turkeys and think that fruit tree will never run out. However, many remember what it was like when the fruit trees they keep taking from were mere saplings in the ground, and still remember what it was like before that sapling were even planted.
I'm not some elitist or think my way is the only way. I prefer to have my butt on the ground and back against a tree. Just like others prefer to sit in a blind and use a strutter or decoys. Each tactic is effective in it's own way. I'm not going to tell you what's deemed right or wrong, although I have my thoughts on what I deem acceptable and what I don't accept, for me personally.. One of my biggest concerns of restricting certain methods is the negative impact it could have on kids and older people. And I'll use myself as an example. The first bird I killed I was 8 years old over a hen decoy. The second bird I killed I was 12 and I called him up myself over a hen decoy. The third turkey I killed I was 14 and I called him up with no decoy. The very last two turkeys my dad ever killed he was in a blind next to me over decoys some 25 years since I killed my first turkey. His mobility had deteriorated to the point that was the only feasible way he could still enjoy turkey hunting. So, that's what we did. I understand the argument and I see the coin from both sides. I see the effectiveness some of these tactics are having and how it triggers certain responses from and animal that normally wouldn't be there under "fair" play. In my personal opinion I don't think a healthy grown man who can walk, talk and chew bubble gum should use certain tactics...now, that's just my personal opinion. So that side of my coin I can get on board with outlawing decoys, strutters, reaping....whatever. The other side of my coin remembers the little kid and how excited I was and getting that notch in my belt. And I also remember what it was like to be there and get my old man his last turkey with tactics that I don't personally use or necessarily agree with. However, I don't shame or look down on that time or any other hunt that has included a blind or decoys or whatever. Children, first times and old timers, I have a soft spot for them. I remember last year I bumped into an older fella who had just killed a bird. He had some health issues and was kind of broken down but still had the drive and desire. I just thought to myself, one day that's going to be me. An old broke down shell of a man of what I used to be where my best days are in my rearview......oh to be to so lucky. To know you have less days ahead, maybe then we'd cherish the moments a little longer and really appreciate the experience for what it is. Maybe we could enjoy the sunset a little longer and not wish the night away for the sunrise so to speak. I'm guilty of wishing the night away far too many times.
I'm not going to deny that effectiveness some tactics have. I know guys that personally ride around just hoping to catch one in a field with the sole intention of "reaping" him or "fanning" him. And they could care less whose property it is. They're not in it for the right reasons and sadly and are stealing another mans fruit. I doubt they ever will "get it". Certain things in life you have to want to achieve and then excel and continue to grow and develop and a lot of them are still stuck in middle school, honestly. Unfortunately they aren't mature enough to see both sides of the coin and can't actually see the forest, so an honest, open minded debate or discussion is rather difficult, especially on the internet. Their argument will be it's legal and will defend and deem what they do as such and their right. Yet won't be able to see the big picture and the negative impact their having and at the rate in which their doing so. Many will see the situation yet fail to see the problem.
People want to bash or bring up TSS for example. TSS isn't killing more turkeys. PEOPLE are killing more turkeys with TSS who aren't educated, who are ignorant and haven't taken the time to understand what this game is all about. It's about like saying guns kill people. No, people with guns kill people. You hear it all the time, " 60 is the new 40". I can't argue nor deny the capability, but just because you can do something, doesn't mean you should. Companies have done a fabulous job of promoting unrealistic expectations and blatantly promoting the taking of an animal at distances that should never be heard of or thought of much less stamped on a dadgum box so they can get sales up. For the ones that initially started loading and shooting TSS, it was simply in exchange for a smaller, lighter platform that still produced adequate patterns at distances previously only achieved by larger calibers. It was not to extend the ethical range, it was not so those could start consistently shooting at ranges of 60 or 70 yards. That's where that logic and those opinions are flawed. However, the uneducated have and are pushing the envelope. The guy in the year 2022 that goes to the store and buys 2 boxes of TSS that promotes 60 yard kills and shoots at turkeys at that range and even further, is no different than the guy back in 1990 who picked up a box of #4's and shot at turkeys at 50 yards with an improved cylinder barrel. The only difference I see is the guy in 1990 may have actually "missed" that turkey at 50 yards. The guy in 2022 that shoots a load of 3 1/2" 9's at 70 yards....did he actually "miss"?
IMO, much of this is being uneducated and not understanding what is and what is not ethical. Not what someone else or another group or groups has deemed acceptable or unacceptable. It's a growing process and everyone has to go through stages, or at least should. Unfortunately, many are not maturing and are staying in the same stage. Why you ask? Because they're highly successful. It's easy. It's simple. Unfortunately this newer generation is all about what is the easiest, the simplest and achieves them the highest rate of success the quickest. And when I speak of being educated I'll give you a personal account.... This past season I was down in a southern state and got checked by the game warden, all was fine. I asked if he had checked any others and he said a few. Said he checked one guy that crippled one at 65 yards shooting lead number 4's. My friend told the game warden he had no business to ever shoot at a turkey that far, much less with lead number 4's. He looked at me and I quote, "If he had been shooting that TSS he would have obliterated that bird at 65 yards". Even that agent, someone who is supposed to try and uphold the laws and I would think should use events such as that as a teaching tool doesn't get it, which is sad.
Part of the reason the first group, the "traditionalist", if you will, look down on the second group is because the first group have taken their lumps, been through the growing pains. They know and remember all to well what it was like to not have turkeys, to not have a season, to have a county divided by a highway where you could hunt on this side, but not the other. To go seasons possibly in between kills. Or what it was like to be proud of the one or two birds that you were able to harvest in a single season. To be excited to see a turkey track on your property and how elated you actually were to see a bird for the first time on that property. They see the second group taking short cuts, cheating if you will. They're taking advantage of having ample opportunities....opportunities that the older crowd wasn't afforded that lead the the long hard road many of us traveled that the second group has never had to go down. The second group has no clue about what those days and times were like. All they know is they've always had turkeys, always killed turkeys and think that fruit tree will never run out. However, many remember what it was like when the fruit trees they keep taking from were mere saplings in the ground, and still remember what it was like before that sapling were even planted.
I'm not some elitist or think my way is the only way. I prefer to have my butt on the ground and back against a tree. Just like others prefer to sit in a blind and use a strutter or decoys. Each tactic is effective in it's own way. I'm not going to tell you what's deemed right or wrong, although I have my thoughts on what I deem acceptable and what I don't accept, for me personally.. One of my biggest concerns of restricting certain methods is the negative impact it could have on kids and older people. And I'll use myself as an example. The first bird I killed I was 8 years old over a hen decoy. The second bird I killed I was 12 and I called him up myself over a hen decoy. The third turkey I killed I was 14 and I called him up with no decoy. The very last two turkeys my dad ever killed he was in a blind next to me over decoys some 25 years since I killed my first turkey. His mobility had deteriorated to the point that was the only feasible way he could still enjoy turkey hunting. So, that's what we did. I understand the argument and I see the coin from both sides. I see the effectiveness some of these tactics are having and how it triggers certain responses from and animal that normally wouldn't be there under "fair" play. In my personal opinion I don't think a healthy grown man who can walk, talk and chew bubble gum should use certain tactics...now, that's just my personal opinion. So that side of my coin I can get on board with outlawing decoys, strutters, reaping....whatever. The other side of my coin remembers the little kid and how excited I was and getting that notch in my belt. And I also remember what it was like to be there and get my old man his last turkey with tactics that I don't personally use or necessarily agree with. However, I don't shame or look down on that time or any other hunt that has included a blind or decoys or whatever. Children, first times and old timers, I have a soft spot for them. I remember last year I bumped into an older fella who had just killed a bird. He had some health issues and was kind of broken down but still had the drive and desire. I just thought to myself, one day that's going to be me. An old broke down shell of a man of what I used to be where my best days are in my rearview......oh to be to so lucky. To know you have less days ahead, maybe then we'd cherish the moments a little longer and really appreciate the experience for what it is. Maybe we could enjoy the sunset a little longer and not wish the night away for the sunrise so to speak. I'm guilty of wishing the night away far too many times.
I'm not going to deny that effectiveness some tactics have. I know guys that personally ride around just hoping to catch one in a field with the sole intention of "reaping" him or "fanning" him. And they could care less whose property it is. They're not in it for the right reasons and sadly and are stealing another mans fruit. I doubt they ever will "get it". Certain things in life you have to want to achieve and then excel and continue to grow and develop and a lot of them are still stuck in middle school, honestly. Unfortunately they aren't mature enough to see both sides of the coin and can't actually see the forest, so an honest, open minded debate or discussion is rather difficult, especially on the internet. Their argument will be it's legal and will defend and deem what they do as such and their right. Yet won't be able to see the big picture and the negative impact their having and at the rate in which their doing so. Many will see the situation yet fail to see the problem.