Divided

hoyt85

Six Pointer
I'm not saying that things should stay the same or that things should change. All I'm saying is it seems you've got the one group that is more or a "traditionalist" if you will. Call them old school, elitist, holier than thou, call them whatever you want to. They typically are very opinionated and have a strong belief in certain tactics and will not deviate from what they deem fair play. They prefer to play the game the "right" way. What they deem the right way is from years or dabbling in this or that and taking a step back and looking at the big picture and asking themselves what did they really accomplish. So they chalk it up to experience and hang that tactic up in the closet. Knowing that at any given time, they could pull it back out. However, they'd rather play the game in the manner in which they deem fair than to walk away feeling they cheated. It's their own personal mindset and belief. They know their equipment and tools like the back of their hand. The other group knows just enough to be dangerous. There is no line in the sand for this group that won't be crossed, Their tools and equipment are different, yet very effective. There is no proverbial closet where things are stored and no longer used. It's more so a treasure chest where if this doesn't' work we'll try this and if that doesn't work we'll do this. The pace and speed at which the second group will be successful is much quicker than the first group. The learning curve is taken away. It's a kill at all costs and it's for the fame and attention which is the complete opposite from the "traditionalist" group.

People want to bash or bring up TSS for example. TSS isn't killing more turkeys. PEOPLE are killing more turkeys with TSS who aren't educated, who are ignorant and haven't taken the time to understand what this game is all about. It's about like saying guns kill people. No, people with guns kill people. You hear it all the time, " 60 is the new 40". I can't argue nor deny the capability, but just because you can do something, doesn't mean you should. Companies have done a fabulous job of promoting unrealistic expectations and blatantly promoting the taking of an animal at distances that should never be heard of or thought of much less stamped on a dadgum box so they can get sales up. For the ones that initially started loading and shooting TSS, it was simply in exchange for a smaller, lighter platform that still produced adequate patterns at distances previously only achieved by larger calibers. It was not to extend the ethical range, it was not so those could start consistently shooting at ranges of 60 or 70 yards. That's where that logic and those opinions are flawed. However, the uneducated have and are pushing the envelope. The guy in the year 2022 that goes to the store and buys 2 boxes of TSS that promotes 60 yard kills and shoots at turkeys at that range and even further, is no different than the guy back in 1990 who picked up a box of #4's and shot at turkeys at 50 yards with an improved cylinder barrel. The only difference I see is the guy in 1990 may have actually "missed" that turkey at 50 yards. The guy in 2022 that shoots a load of 3 1/2" 9's at 70 yards....did he actually "miss"?

IMO, much of this is being uneducated and not understanding what is and what is not ethical. Not what someone else or another group or groups has deemed acceptable or unacceptable. It's a growing process and everyone has to go through stages, or at least should. Unfortunately, many are not maturing and are staying in the same stage. Why you ask? Because they're highly successful. It's easy. It's simple. Unfortunately this newer generation is all about what is the easiest, the simplest and achieves them the highest rate of success the quickest. And when I speak of being educated I'll give you a personal account.... This past season I was down in a southern state and got checked by the game warden, all was fine. I asked if he had checked any others and he said a few. Said he checked one guy that crippled one at 65 yards shooting lead number 4's. My friend told the game warden he had no business to ever shoot at a turkey that far, much less with lead number 4's. He looked at me and I quote, "If he had been shooting that TSS he would have obliterated that bird at 65 yards". Even that agent, someone who is supposed to try and uphold the laws and I would think should use events such as that as a teaching tool doesn't get it, which is sad.

Part of the reason the first group, the "traditionalist", if you will, look down on the second group is because the first group have taken their lumps, been through the growing pains. They know and remember all to well what it was like to not have turkeys, to not have a season, to have a county divided by a highway where you could hunt on this side, but not the other. To go seasons possibly in between kills. Or what it was like to be proud of the one or two birds that you were able to harvest in a single season. To be excited to see a turkey track on your property and how elated you actually were to see a bird for the first time on that property. They see the second group taking short cuts, cheating if you will. They're taking advantage of having ample opportunities....opportunities that the older crowd wasn't afforded that lead the the long hard road many of us traveled that the second group has never had to go down. The second group has no clue about what those days and times were like. All they know is they've always had turkeys, always killed turkeys and think that fruit tree will never run out. However, many remember what it was like when the fruit trees they keep taking from were mere saplings in the ground, and still remember what it was like before that sapling were even planted.

I'm not some elitist or think my way is the only way. I prefer to have my butt on the ground and back against a tree. Just like others prefer to sit in a blind and use a strutter or decoys. Each tactic is effective in it's own way. I'm not going to tell you what's deemed right or wrong, although I have my thoughts on what I deem acceptable and what I don't accept, for me personally.. One of my biggest concerns of restricting certain methods is the negative impact it could have on kids and older people. And I'll use myself as an example. The first bird I killed I was 8 years old over a hen decoy. The second bird I killed I was 12 and I called him up myself over a hen decoy. The third turkey I killed I was 14 and I called him up with no decoy. The very last two turkeys my dad ever killed he was in a blind next to me over decoys some 25 years since I killed my first turkey. His mobility had deteriorated to the point that was the only feasible way he could still enjoy turkey hunting. So, that's what we did. I understand the argument and I see the coin from both sides. I see the effectiveness some of these tactics are having and how it triggers certain responses from and animal that normally wouldn't be there under "fair" play. In my personal opinion I don't think a healthy grown man who can walk, talk and chew bubble gum should use certain tactics...now, that's just my personal opinion. So that side of my coin I can get on board with outlawing decoys, strutters, reaping....whatever. The other side of my coin remembers the little kid and how excited I was and getting that notch in my belt. And I also remember what it was like to be there and get my old man his last turkey with tactics that I don't personally use or necessarily agree with. However, I don't shame or look down on that time or any other hunt that has included a blind or decoys or whatever. Children, first times and old timers, I have a soft spot for them. I remember last year I bumped into an older fella who had just killed a bird. He had some health issues and was kind of broken down but still had the drive and desire. I just thought to myself, one day that's going to be me. An old broke down shell of a man of what I used to be where my best days are in my rearview......oh to be to so lucky. To know you have less days ahead, maybe then we'd cherish the moments a little longer and really appreciate the experience for what it is. Maybe we could enjoy the sunset a little longer and not wish the night away for the sunrise so to speak. I'm guilty of wishing the night away far too many times.

I'm not going to deny that effectiveness some tactics have. I know guys that personally ride around just hoping to catch one in a field with the sole intention of "reaping" him or "fanning" him. And they could care less whose property it is. They're not in it for the right reasons and sadly and are stealing another mans fruit. I doubt they ever will "get it". Certain things in life you have to want to achieve and then excel and continue to grow and develop and a lot of them are still stuck in middle school, honestly. Unfortunately they aren't mature enough to see both sides of the coin and can't actually see the forest, so an honest, open minded debate or discussion is rather difficult, especially on the internet. Their argument will be it's legal and will defend and deem what they do as such and their right. Yet won't be able to see the big picture and the negative impact their having and at the rate in which their doing so. Many will see the situation yet fail to see the problem.
 

hoyt85

Six Pointer
We all care and we all want answers, but do we or are we willing to accept change or even talk about change as adults and acknowledge that to some degree, particular practices are doing more damage than we thought possible in the beginning? Even though our opinions may vary and differ can we find common ground and come together for the betterment of the resource? The one thing I do know that as long as the divisiveness remains and we can't find some common ground the wild turkey will continue to be the one that suffers the most. We can blame predators which have been on the landscape for as long as any of us can remember. We can blame it on the hay farmers who have been cutting hay at the same time every single year for decades before turkeys were around, while they were restocked and expanded and up until present day. We can talk about the development and loss of habitat. We can talk about the timber industry and how practices have changed and how what we take off of the landscape isn't being put back and replaced the way we found it. We can talk about the farming practices and how that has changed and seeds have been manipulated and herbicides and pesticides have changed in how they're being used compared to 30 years ago. We can talk about how so and so down the road hasn't cut a tree in 50 years and still plows his fields and doesn't spray and leaves food and how theirs brood cover, nesting cover and shoots every hawk, owl, coyote, skunk, snake, cat, dog he can and has always had turkeys and now he doesn't. We can talk about the NWTF programs and how they look more like a good place to jump a rabbit rather than kill a turkey. We can talk about some of these so called wildlife management areas that are anything but managed and are void of any wildlife. But what we don't know is why certain hens aren't even being bred. Laying a clutch and it not being successful for all sorts of reasons is out or our control. A hen not even being bred or being receptive is a huge problem and raises even more questions for me. When turkeys were first restocked why were they able to expand? Were there more receptive hens then? Were there just more hens that only raised 2-3 poults? If there were more poults being hatched 20 years ago why aren't we seeing the same success rate now?


My fathers passion was quail hunting. He lived for it. I can't tell you how many stories I've heard about how that pine stand used to be a bean field with hedge rows and there was always a covey or two on the backside. How he used to could never leave sight of the house and knew where 12 coveys were. Now, hell I'm lucky to even hear one whistle and I feel it to be a godsend to bump into a covey or to see a mating pair together. He was much like a lot of us are now. He too was like an ostrich for a while with his head in the sand because the problem hadn't reached his backyard. This next parts is a little scary. He started to notice the decline down in SC. He used to go down and hunt on a plantation around Manning, SC. The folks down there kept detailed records of how many coveys were found, pointed, how many birds killed out of a covey, temp, humidity, all sorts of things. Never shot a covey down below 8-9 birds. Didn't hunt singles, only shot the covey rise and killed every damn crow, hawk, owl, snake, fox, coon, possum, cat, dog. Whatever could, or potentially have any harm to a quail from the time It was an egg to adulthood was killed. The timber was managed for quail. Pine plantation stand rotation. Burning, Different stages of cutover, different stages of pines and guess what.... their birds started to slowly disappear. So what was the root cause? if the landscape hadn't changed, if the predators were in "check", if they weren't being over harvested, if every variable remained the same that could be controlled and deemed good and or positive for the continued management of the wild quail....why in the hell were they declining? People back in the late 70's early 80's had the same discussions about quail we're having now about turkeys. They blamed fescue, timber, farming, predators, hunting a covey down to low for the covey to rebound. Yet, the decline continued. So back to the scary part that sounds all too familiar as I type this. The decline started down south and slowly started to creep it's way northward. Our place was in Anson county, southern piedmont area, and by the mid 80's when I came around bird numbers were falling and dismal. By the time I was old enough to actually carry a gun finding a wild covey was a daunting task. However, bird numbers were still good down east back in the late 80's and early 90's and my dad would make the trip down every year. Until finally, they too started to have their birds disappear. The quail decline started down south, moved north and eventually east. Much like what we're specifically talking about in NC right now with the wild turkey. The once strongholds are dwindling and it started in the southern states, NC particularly has seen the once stronghold in the west dwindle and trickle down into the piedmont, while the eastern part of the state is now booming. Everyone has their theory and is an arm chair biologist and I suppose my dad was no different and perhaps I am as well. He always said he felt like it was some type of disease. To the point he felt the hens weren't being bred, weren't receptive, weren't fertile, eggs were softer, etc etc.....was it herbicides, pesticides? He had no concrete evidence of this other than one simple fact remained...birds were disappearing from the landscape. Regardless of what he did on his own piece of property, it seemed to do no good. TI was like watching a train wreck in slow motion. You could see the train, you could hear it, you knew it was coming yet there was no way of stopping it. I hope and pray that in this day and age we now have the tools, the funds and research available to pinpoint the cause and reasoning behind what we're seeing now. I've seen some really good quail habitat in my travels, yet it's void of a bobwhite whistle.

I hope and pray that the wild turkey isn't my dad's quail.
 

hoyt85

Six Pointer
I just feel much like quail, this is a very complex issue and turkeys are seemingly disappearing from certain landscapes and areas at a rapid rate and no one knows why or has any answers. Yet they are still expanding in others. Which is very perplexing to me and honestly I don't fully understand. IF certain landscapes that were void of turkeys haven't changed, then restocked and flourished and expanded, why are those undisturbed landscapes not holding turkeys anymore? Is it simply over harvest? Maybe so, I guess it could be if what we're taking isn't being replaced at the rate in whish we're taking. Yet, that doesn't explain the infertility and / or lack of receptiveness.

This is a very complicated issue. As long as the sun is shining at my house, I really don't care that it's storming at yours. That is the general mindset of many, myself included to a degree at times. That's human nature unfortunately. However, eventually that storms going to show up. Someone else's problem is never a problem for you until you have the same problem someone else does....then we want talk about it and find that common ground. Could it be too late by then?

I think about those guys up north a good bit and how certain regulations have changed in one particular state. And how my point of view and personal opinion is that it's detrimental what that certain state has done. They think the sun is always going to shine. Then, you factor in the jake harvest and how there is no restraint on killing immature gobblers for many of them. All many seem to care about up that way is a red head. Is it legal, yes it is. However, if you whack the jakes, you will not have any two year old's. The more two year old's you have, the more three year old's you'll have. It's simple math. The more birds you can get to maturity the better the likelihood of more hens that will be bred, assuming they are receptive. However, one thing is for certain.....if there are no mature birds left to do the breeding, no breeding will occur. I've killed a jake or two. intentional and unintentional. :donk:donk:donk:donk happens. Maybe if I hadn't of been so blood thirsty at certain times or had a little more patience and restraint those situations would have ended differently. Was it legal, yes....but what did I accomplish?

None of this is meant to point a finger or place any sort of blame. There is no need in the pot calling the kettle black. These are simply some of my views, experiences and thoughts. We are all in this together, we will all be apart of any problem or any solution. It's just going to determine to what degree we'll contribute to either the problem or the solution.
 

Brad_Colvin

Eight Pointer
Man my hat is off to you for taking the time to type this. I don't know you from Adam but you were able to coherently put all of my thoughts on these subjects in just a couple of posts. Again thanks for sharing your thoughts.
 

oldest school

Old Mossy Horns
I first heard the quail analogy this winter at the NWTF convention.
Since then it is the outcome that looks very probable and seems to have already occurred in many states. Nobody did anything "wrong" the birds just couldnt take the environment of today.Like you I pray that isnt the long term scenario.
The methods discussion is the most divisive. We have crutches now that are legal that tilt the field in favor of us and leave the dumb turkey defenseless. That conflict will go on whether it is needed to ease the harvest or not.
NC's boom in the east will prevent the state from making any hard decisions/changes for a spell.
We all just need to get us a field in Duplin. :)
 

Aaron H

Old Mossy Horns
Contributor
Quail were common in my childhood and often seen. I saw my last covey of quail in 1983- Chatham County. Then, nothing until about 2010 when I saw a single bird, alone calling but getting no answer. During this time turkeys were making a gradual expansion in the same area and I can now hunt turkeys on land that had not a track 20 years ago. Rabbits declined drastically about the same time as the quail disappeared but in recent years seem to be making a comeback. As was touched on in the post, many factors have been blamed for the diminishing turkey populations in many areas. I believe it is happening for many reasons. Some years ago I taught the hunter education course here in NC. It was a fact then that the only type of hunting in our state that was on the increase was turkey hunting. As older hunters retired from deer, ducks and small game fewer young people were taking their place. Turkey hunting was gaining in popularity. I believe that trend continues today. Turkeys are not like deer.... a spike buck will carry on the breeding if every mature buck is killed in an area. If we shoot all mature gobblers off of an area before breeding is completed the hatch will be soundly affected. That's my belief based largely on observations of domesticated Bronze Turkeys that I used to raise. The hens would refuse jakes for breeding. If you have good turkey habitat to hunt with birds present, taking minimal mature gobblers and leaving most of them on the land each spring is a good management practice.
 

ellwoodjake

Twelve Pointer
I can't help but to think the decline in quail came hand in hand with the demise of the fur market, protection of raptors, AND the re-introduction of turkeys. I also worder if the release of pen-raised quail with their genetics for inferior wily ways, may have even made things worse
 

hoyt85

Six Pointer
All I have to fall back on as far as quail are concerned are just stories from my dad and his buddies on a tailgate over a few cold beers reminiscing over how things were "back in the day". Watching a kennel full of dogs grow old and die without having any birds to point and an old man watch something he loved vanish in front of his eyes for the most part. And a very few and far in between wild covey's I was a part of. I think the last wild covey I saw our dog's point was around 1997 down east, and we both doubled. Can't say he didn't try. Lord have mercy I wish I had dollar for every mile walked with a hand seeder slung over my shoulder slinging lespedeza on roadbeds or hours spent on a tractor plowing, discing and planting specifically for quail. He could have cared less about a dadgum deer. Or turning every available corner into some type of warm season grasses. All of this for the love and straight out of his own pocket. I can't say he wasn't hard on them back in the day, and even he questioned if he wasn't too hard on them. I think that's why he tried to hard to give back and put back, but even I think he believed he was a day late and a dollar short. It seems there's always those who piddle around and dabble in this or dabble in that. Then there's those that really excel and go full bore. He was full bore. Much like many who chase turkeys today. Some only hunt a few times or never leave the confines of the state line. While others are a little more obsessed.

This is my dart board, and these are my darts. So, take it for what it's worth. We can't deny the impact the changing timber practices have and will continue to have if something doesn't change. I'll take one place and use it as an example. Even though it's across the state line in Henry county Virginia, it might as well be Rockingham county. I've been going up there to hunt for the last 7 years. And without using a broad brush and painting an inaccurate picture, I'll focus on the 600 acres. Although it's a much smaller scale than say two or three counties, the landscape around the area has changed drastically and very quickly. It was a mix of cow pastures with scattered pines intermixed among the vast tracts of oak and poplar hills and hollers. Some of the prettier woods I've ever seen or hunted. From what I've been told, back in the early 2000's it was something to behold the amount of gobbling and turkeys in general that were around on the farm. Even though it was 2015 before I ever stepped foot on it or saw it. I thought it was still dang good considering we heard 8 or 9 birds that morning. Fast forward to this year. There was not one single gobbling turkey on the entire farm that was heard the entire season. The cows are still there. The rivers still there. The fields are still there. The only thing that has changed is the timber. The hardwoods have been cut or are being cut. The cutovers are barren. Now, was every oak on the farm cut. No, there are still a few in the steepest hollers. But the other portions have been replanted in pines.

Now to one of my points. Timber harvest is no new thing, but the way it's being conducted has changed and evolved. If you back up 15. 20 or 25 years ago a fresh cutover could still support a lot of life before the pines and briars became too thick and took over. There was bugging and foraging. Now, these companies are spraying and literally killing everything over the fresh cut before they replant with pine trees. Again, we are not putting back what we are taking. And what we are taking, we are taking the maximum we can get. A stream side management buffer no longer exists. Go to some of these tracks, we've all seen it. Find a stream in the middle of a pine stand and it might as well be a goat path as to how many hardwoods are still left standing along the banks. The only thing that doesn't get cut is what the cutter can't reach. And some of these cutovers are left in a disaster, on both public and private once the loggers pull out and move on. What once used to provide some type of food for the first year, two or three is now a barren wasteland with nothing but the remaining stumps left to rot. There is nothing a turkey needs or wants in the clear cuts now. Sure, a turkey could go out there to strut if he wanted to, I suppose. But there's no other feasible reason for him to be out there. Using a chemical to control unwanted growth is much more economically feasible than using fire and takes far less resources and manpower to conduct and control. The thing about fire is we all know the dangers or fire. You can see it and feel it. But what about these chemicals? Now maybe I'm just throwing darts that won't stick. But I just wonder if or any correlation could be made between these chemicals and the impact it could be having on the breeding and nesting as far as the impacts it's having internally. Perhaps leading to infertility, unfertile eggs, or softer eggs. I have no data to back this up. Like most of my rambling it's just mere speculation. However, I can see the changes firsthand over the years. So, I must wonder and question.
 

hoyt85

Six Pointer
Which leads me to farming and how much that has changed, or in some cases, the lack thereof. We used to plow, disc, disc again, then plant. You'd come back and top dress with nitrogen or some other herbicide that maybe only killed broadleaf or maybe only killed grass. In between these trips to the field and over time there were still bugs and various grasses still available or coming up periodically. It wasn't barren and there were "stages" if you will from the time the ground was initially plowed to when the seed germinated and started to grow before it was too tall to really offer any benefit other than cover. In essence, fields were a little more "trashy" I guess you could say. The combines left a lot of stubble in the field and a lot of spilt grain. Every aspect of farming has become more efficient as we have evolved. We spend less time in the field. Now, mostly everything is no tilled and round up ready. And round up essentially kills everything. The farmer is chomping at the bit to get his seed in the ground as soon as the ground temperature allows. And i can't blame him for that. Seeds have been manipulated and altered to grow and produce faster with higher yields. Once these fields are sprayed, they are essentially almost no different than that barren cutover. We were poor farmers if you want to call us farmers at all. We just did it for wildlife and for the enjoyment. So, we were late with a lot of our planting. It just seems things seem to get earlier and earlier every year. A corn field used to not be sprayed until the first week or two of April it seems. Now it's sprayed the second or third week of march. So, by the time turkey season comes around, there's no need for a turkey to be spending any time out there. And remember, this view is based off the piedmont area. Further south things are different, and the season structure is also different, just like the further north you go, but my point I believe is still valid across all types of landscapes. Now, I'm not naive to the point that I can't see the holes in my bucket. I've been to different areas of this country, and I've seen birds in these freshly planted barren fields. I'm sure there are plenty that will read this, if they've taken the time, and say I'm crazy and I don't know what I'm talking about. And maybe I don't. maybe there is no correlation at all. But I just wonder if there is. It makes sense to me to a degree.

Aside from the "private" sector of things. A vast amount of our national forest and I dare say "wildlife management areas" or "game lands" are a complete joke. Not all of them, but a lot of them are. Whether it be old timber that needs thinning, select cutting or completely cut all together and replanted. However, they will not be replanted with what has been taken away. Because the almighty dollar and the pine tree drives everything and we as sportsman and the wildlife are the ones that take the brunt of it and suffer. And if you don't believe me, go look at some of our game lands then tell me how crazy I am. Not only are we not putting back or replacing what we take with how we found it. We are taking acres and acres of habitat away from not only turkeys but all sorts of game that needs every available acre to thrive and survive. With development the way that it is, and certain practices being conducted the way that they are. You would think, or at least I would think that our biggest supporters and protectors of these lands would be our National Forest, State Forest, WMA and game lands etc, etc. However, the way I see it, they're not. They either stand back and do nothing or stand back with their hand out like the children of the old farmer who passed away and can't' wait for the check to clear once the farm has been sold.

I hunted a state forest earlier in the year and was confined to that one area. This place could have been really nice, and a few areas were decent, but the vast majority was complete and utter trash. They had the manpower, had the machine power, they had the trucks, the dozers, the skid steers, the back hoes, the fire trucks, etc, etc. Anything they needed that I deemed necessary to properly maintain this state forest they had at their disposal. And I can tell you, after 6 days of covering one end to the other. I saw very, very little evidence that they were doing anything for the betterment of the landscape other than picking up the trash on the side of the road and being sure the toilet paper was stocked. It was in my opinion a complete and total waste of manpower, money, and equipment.....and someone is paying their salaries, and someone footed the bill for all that equipment.
 

hoyt85

Six Pointer
I'm not basing this off what it looks like out my back window or over a two or three county area. I'm basing this over multiple states and areas just from what I've seen personally over the last several years. Maybe I'm wrong, maybe I'm completely wrong and my thought process is flawed, and my bucket won't hold any water. However, there are several people I know scattered throughout the southeast that share some of my same concerns. And I'm in no way bashing farmers, loggers, state, or federal employees. All those jobs are being driven by corporate and money. They are in essence merely puppets and I understand to a certain degree their hands are tied and can't do some of the things many would like to or how they would like to. Logging provided a way of life for many of my family and friends as well as farming. Even though it pained some of those friends to know that every single day they were taking away knowing good and well they weren't going to be replaced, it afforded them a job and sustained their livelihood. Ironic that most were sportsman and outdoorsmen.

Look at the Pee Dee wildlife refuge. Back up 15 or 20 years ago there were turkeys there and it used to be a good place. I'm not sure when they opened for turkey hunting. However, year after year the comments and hunts get worse and worse. Riding through there it looks good. Heck, I've hunted it, been all through it. Hunted on private next to it. But it's a shell of what it once was. And I'm sure someone will say it's the hogs, and it may very well be. I'm not denying the negative impact they have on the landscape, ecosystem, and other animals. I just don't think you can point to that sole reason and pin the tail on that donkey, or in this case the pig.

I waited until after the season to post this. I realize it may not get as much traction as during the season and that's ok. I feel like the people that truly care for more than 30 days will check in and possibly chime in. I realize I'm long winded, I just try to be thorough and explain. If I'm short, I feel as though I may come across in a way I don't intend. Again, I have no credential, no plaques on the wall or any titles. Just a guy that loves to turkey hunt. And these are some of my thoughts, concerns, and things I ponder on. I just wonder to what degree and impact some of the changes have had not only ecologically but biologically as well. Not just what we can see, but what we can't see.
 
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