Deep thought of the day

badlandbucks

Ten Pointer
Had a long conversation about this over the weekend. Interested to see everyone's thoughts.

The entire premise of most religions in Christianity is that Jesus died for all of our sins. Yet it is also taught that humans have an immortal soul. If such is the case, then we are all going to live eternally in one form or another anyway...right? If then our souls are immortal, Jesus would not have had to die in order for us to gain everlasting life (John 3:16). The scriptures indicate that without Jesus' sacrifice, we would not have "everlasting life"...so how does one explain the "everlastingness" of an immortal soul?
 

shadebaby

Six Pointer
Jesus died on the cross for us to have eternal life with God if we choose that path otherwise it will be eternity in hell. We are all sinners and not deserving of Gods mercy but through Jesus dying on the cross for us we can have that if we accept him as our savior.
 

nontypical

Six Pointer
^^^ This

Anytime I start asking myself questions about this and that relating to God and Jesus I remind myself that God is the creator and I am just a part of the creation. We were made from the dust of the earth and when we die our body is going back to the dust of the earth.

If you really want to understand how pitiful all of us are, read the New Testament. None of us are worthy. Only Jesus makes us worthy. Best advice I can give you on this is to have a childlike faith. Don't be to smart for your own good. God Bless!
 

Winnie 70

Eight Pointer
Correct shadebaby, and if we are in hell for eternity, burning for eternity, we must be feeling the heat so we must be alive. Now the question is, which will you choose....choice is yours and last time I touched the stove eye, I don't want to feel that for eternity. It is so simple, and people die in a car wreck every day and have not accepted him, may God have mercy on them.
 

badlandbucks

Ten Pointer
But none of that answers the question. John 3:16 says that Jesus' sacrifice is what allows us to achieve "everlasting life." It doesn't specify which type of everlasting life, just says "everlasting life." This would mean there is no everlasting life...of either destination...without Jesus' sacrifice. If humans already had everlasting life before Jesus died, the scripture doesn't make sense. Just thinking out loud here.
 

nontypical

Six Pointer
I was taught not to rely on your own understanding. Trust in Gods word.
What you might want to do is check out Chuck Swindoll or Charles Stanley. Ask them that question, they have a pretty good understanding of the word. Much better than me. Let us know what they say.
 

shadebaby

Six Pointer
Joh 3:36 Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God's wrath remains on him."



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badlandbucks

Ten Pointer
Joh 3:36 Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God's wrath remains on him."



Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk
EXACTLY! So if one rejects Jesus...their punishment is death...not eternal life in torment. See that makes sense to me.
 

gameland

Ten Pointer
I wouldn’t call spending eternity in hell everlasting life because it’s not. It’s everlasting misery. Everlasting torture. Everlasting life is what I’m gonna to have and anybody who believes that Jesus died and was resurrected for our sins will have. Hell will be eternal separation from God and to me that’s not life. I wish you and everyone the best and pray everyone will accept that free gift.
 

badlandbucks

Ten Pointer
I wouldn’t call spending eternity in hell everlasting life because it’s not. It’s everlasting misery. Everlasting torture. Everlasting life is what I’m gonna to have and anybody who believes that Jesus died and was resurrected for our sins will have. Hell will be eternal separation from God and to me that’s not life. I wish you and everyone the best and pray everyone will accept that free gift.
Wouldn't one have to have some form of "life" to experience said torture though? Not being argumentative, just saying I haven't seen that view supported by the bible. Not to mention God does not condone torture; doing so would equate God's personality with Satan's.
 

gameland

Ten Pointer
Wouldn't one have to have some form of "life" to experience said torture though? Not being argumentative, just saying I haven't seen that view supported by the bible. Not to mention God does not condone torture; doing so would equate God's personality with Satan's.
While here on earth God gives us free choice to choose whether we accept his Son as our Savior or not. In Matthew 13:42 the Bible speaks of non believers being thrown into a fiery pit where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. To me that’s torture, but it’s torture that is brought onto oneself by choosing not to believe. God doesn’t want any of us to choose that but some will.
 

Eric Revo

Old Mossy Horns
Contributor
We as believers accept Jesus to become a part of us and we become a part of Him, He is life.
Separation from God is spiritual death even though one's spirit continues to exist.
We all choose to either accept either life or death with no other options out there.
 

rescue934

Twelve Pointer
(I believe) It would be irrational to believe there is a Heaven and not a Hell. What we "feel" is irrelevant to what God has written in scripture. What we want or desire has no relevance, it is only what the Bible teaches us in regards to heaven and hell. Revelations 4:9-11 is very specific.If your soul is immortal than it is immortal in heaven or in hell. I can not find a distinction in the Bible. ( I have been studying this issue lately, and going back thru notes taken over the years)
There is also the element that we are taught to believe, we've never seen GOD but we know and believe he is real. But I do see GOD daily in everything as I see the devils work as well.
 

rescue934

Twelve Pointer
You have to also look into the reason for the new testament. this is way to long to type, but when Jesus came to earth and died for our sins. The rules of redemption changed, the Old Testaments traditions and sacrifices were gone, there now was only one thing that needed to be done, to ACCEPT JESUS as the son of GOD. The everlasting life has always been there since man was created Jesus changed the pathway.
 

nontypical

Six Pointer
rescue 934, I think a lot about how the children of Israel before and after Christ will be judged. Jesus said no man gets to the father except through him. It’s my understanding that some if not most of today’s Jews don’t believe that Jesus is the savior. I could be way off on that. I wonder how will Gods chosen people be judged that aren’t saved. What’s your thoughts?
 

rescue934

Twelve Pointer
Romans 11 speaks to the grafting of the Gentiles and Jews, using an olive tree for demonstration. Jesus spoke a lot about the union. But as I continue to learn the Jews are chosen and set above, yet choose not to believe. the BIble also speaks of their eyes being opened as scales falling off.
 

nontypical

Six Pointer
Just based on how much God loved Abraham and King David, I figure the Jews standards might be different than the gentiles.

Anyways, something else I was told years ago but I didn’t really comprehend it my first time reading through the Bible was that after Jesus was resurrected, every child born after that was actually born with the Holy Spirit impregnated inside them. Only when you accept Christ as your personal savior does the Holy Spirit come alive so to speak. Any of you guys want to chime in on that.

Great topic by the way!
 

nontypical

Six Pointer
A couple of teachings from Jesus that really stuck with me, meaning he said each one multiple times:

1) What good does it do a man to gain the entire world but lose his soul

2) A man that would intentionally abuse or mislead a child would be better off to tie one end of a chain around his neck and tie the other end around a large rock. Then go out in the middle of the sea and throw the rock overboard.
 

Eric Revo

Old Mossy Horns
Contributor
rescue 934, I think a lot about how the children of Israel before and after Christ will be judged. Jesus said no man gets to the father except through him. It’s my understanding that some if not most of today’s Jews don’t believe that Jesus is the savior. I could be way off on that. I wonder how will Gods chosen people be judged that aren’t saved. What’s your thoughts?
1 John 4:14 And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world.
Jesus was sent to be the final sacrifice for the sins of the "world", which includes the Jewish nation and excludes absolutely no one. During the times that this verse was penned the "world" included Gentiles as well as the nation of Israel who had been told that they were God's chosen people and who also believed that they would be sent a physical being to be King to take them out of slavery and to place them above the rest of the known world.
 

41magfan

Twelve Pointer
Contributor
EXACTLY! So if one rejects Jesus...their punishment is death...not eternal life in torment. See that makes sense to me.
But that ain't what the Bible says and it has nothing to do with what "makes sense" to you or anyone else.

What religion, cult or world view do you subscribe to, badlandbucks? Just curious.
 

Eric Revo

Old Mossy Horns
Contributor
Acts 2:38

“Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.”
 

Helium

Ten Pointer
Actually the Bible does define what “eternal or everlasting life is”....

John 17:3“This is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.”
 

Helium

Ten Pointer
Just based on how much God loved Abraham and King David, I figure the Jews standards might be different than the gentiles.

Anyways, something else I was told years ago but I didn’t really comprehend it my first time reading through the Bible was that after Jesus was resurrected, every child born after that was actually born with the Holy Spirit impregnated inside them. Only when you accept Christ as your personal savior does the Holy Spirit come alive so to speak. Any of you guys want to chime in on that.

Great topic by the way!
Considering the Holy Spirit is a person of the Trinity and not a force... it doesn’t lie dormant in someone. He is alive and well.

Never heard or could imagine someone Biblically supporting the idea of children being born with the Spirit.
 

nontypical

Six Pointer
The way he explained it was that once you became saved, The Holy Spirit would come alive. I didn’t mean it was dormant, just not activated until you were saved. I know this, based on my readings, the Holy Spirit/ comforter/ helper is mentioned many times in the New Testament.
 

nontypical

Six Pointer
This has really got me thinking more about the power of the Holy Spirit. I have been researching this all morning. It seems most information I have found agree that it would be rare instances like John the Baptist, for the Holy Spirit to be with a child.
 

Mike Noles aka conman

Administrator
Staff member
Contributor
The KJV is one of few translations of John 3:16 that translates "everlasting" vs "eternal". Eternal has no beginning or end. Everlasting has a beginning and an end. Just another thought to consider in translation.
 

Helium

Ten Pointer
This has really got me thinking more about the power of the Holy Spirit. I have been researching this all morning. It seems most information I have found agree that it would be rare instances like John the Baptist, for the Holy Spirit to be with a child.
Correct... being born again, a new creation, a new self, dead to self alive in the Spirit etc are a result of the very Spirit of God = the Holy Spirit taking up residence in a believer... not just becoming active.

Something not active yet in place... is dormant. Regardless of how it’s termed
 

JONOV

Ten Pointer
Had a long conversation about this over the weekend. Interested to see everyone's thoughts.

The entire premise of most religions in Christianity is that Jesus died for all of our sins. Yet it is also taught that humans have an immortal soul. If such is the case, then we are all going to live eternally in one form or another anyway...right? If then our souls are immortal, Jesus would not have had to die in order for us to gain everlasting life (John 3:16). The scriptures indicate that without Jesus' sacrifice, we would not have "everlasting life"...so how does one explain the "everlastingness" of an immortal soul?
Isn't that pretty well settled at Baptism as well as the creed/prayer statement of beliefs? Its about the redemption, not everlasting life...

Everlasting life taken alone isn't the gift your initial premise seems to assume. Oddly enough, I remember a high school or Middle School class about Greek Mythology, and there was a character that said "The God's punished me with immortality." Eternity in Hell isn't exactly a gift, is it?

IE Apostles Creed, which is accepted by MANY different Western Christian traditions from Catholics to Anglicans to Presbyterians to Reformed Churches to Lutherans:

..."
conceived by the Holy Spirit,
born of the Virgin Mary,
suffered under Pontius Pilate,
was crucified, died, and was buried;
he descended to the dead.
On the third day he rose again;
he ascended into heaven,

he is seated at the right hand of the Father,
and he will come again to judge the living and the dead..."

Or the "traditional version" of the same creed:
"
conceived by the Holy Spirit,
born of the Virgin Mary,
suffered under Pontius Pilate,
was crucified, died and was buried;
he descended into hell;
on the third day he rose again from the dead;
he ascended into heaven,

and is seated at the right hand of God the Father almighty;
from there he will come to judge the living and the dead. "

Southern Baptist Convention:

"…He honored the divine law by His personal obedience, and in His substitutionary death on the cross, He made provision for the redemption of men from sin. "

For a more "Local" branch of Christianity, the Free WIll Baptists:
"He is the One once crucified for man’s sin, the now risen and glorified Savior and Lord who mediates between God and man and who gives us access to the Father through His intercession. "
 
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