Cooper at AKC Field Trials

ECU_Pirate

Eight Pointer
In other countries they are used for everything, dachshund means (badger dog). They became most popular many years ago when they were used to help kill predators on large tracks in Germany for hunting royalty, to improve the hunting grounds and rid them of badgers, fox etc that would tunnel underground. They would send dog underground to kill or flush the game out so it could be shot. German dogs have there own registry, far more strict then our AKC, they require all that would like registry to pass hunting related tests to be registered for breeding. For a teckel these tests may include 20 and 40 hour blood track, water test, gun shyness test, conformation, obedience search, earth dog work, BHP etc. Also other countries are far ahead in the use of dogs for tracking and many require proof of access to tracking dog prior to getting hunting license.

The tests and heavy usage of the dog in so many areas has preserved the hunt in these dogs, they are great trackers because they a small, can't pull you as hard, they are low to ground where the coldest scent is, they use ground scent, not so much air scent so they stay close to the line where the handler and hunter can confirm seeing blood or other details that may help in recovery, such as a leg bone fragment which would mean probably end search or gut material which may mean wait longer.
The high usage of the dogs to hunt in other countries has preserved high prey drive and intelligence. They can switch from one game to another, based on what handler is asking. Also the dog learns through tracking wounded deer that they smell different through hormones excreted through many areas including the interdigital glands in the hoof. The dog realizes over time that he never finds healthy deer, the dog then locks on to wounded deer and gets rewarded with meat from the find, my dog rips meat off himself when recovers deer.
In this state where we cannot legally track a wounded deer without a leash, teckels are great on leash dogs. Also, they are not a walker or a beagle, they are very very close companion to their handler. Over time and with experience, the team becomes stronger together then they could be apart as handler learns his dog. If I could legally release a dog I would buy a larger breed to help bay deer, it would increase recovery rates, like leg hits that would otherwise get away with leash law.

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Thanks for all the info!

This seems like something I might be Interested in. Only have a home/yard that can support small dogs and would love to train a dog since my dad used to train our dogs for duck hunting. I don't hunt much anymore but I would love to do something with a dog outside. Used to love seeing how happy our boykins were when they were doing what they were bred for.

Thay being said I can't afford to drop top dollar on a puppy. What are some breeds you would recommend that do well at this sport?
 

JONOV

Ten Pointer
So im not real familiar wit this stuff. Im guessing these dogs are used to track down wounded or dead animals who ran off? Like a deer who got shot and ran off and needs to be found?
In Germany and much of Europe, there's a much higher emphasis on recovering game. From what I understand, Getting your hunting license requires a years study, marksmanship tests, etc...

Not only do hunters require a license, so do dogs, meaning they have to pass performance tests before they're allowed to hunt. As I understand it (and my understanding is limited) you can either test with the breed club (like the JGHV tests that DD's and DKs do here) but there is another more general purpose one not for breed clubs? I'm not certain but if you look at some German club websites you will see Pointers and other non-German breeds taking and passing the test.

Then, a hunting lease has expectations for how you manage it...you are expected to take 15 boar, 8 roe deer, 5 red deer, etc and if you don't, you can lose the lease.

Their regs are such that before you go hunting, you have to have a dog lined up in case you have trouble recovering an animal. No access to dog, no lease.
 

aya28ga

Old Mossy Horns
Contributor
Thanks for all the info!

This seems like something I might be Interested in. Only have a home/yard that can support small dogs and would love to train a dog since my dad used to train our dogs for duck hunting. I don't hunt much anymore but I would love to do something with a dog outside. Used to love seeing how happy our boykins were when they were doing what they were bred for.

Thay being said I can't afford to drop top dollar on a puppy. What are some breeds you would recommend that do well at this sport?
You don't have to spend top dollar for a dog that will track wounded deer, just be willing to put in the time to train one. You might be surprised, the family mutt that's possibly lying on your couch right now could be a decent tracker. The dog I'm using now is just a mixed breed hound that I've trained. He'll never be a tracker in the category that Cooper is, but he was good enough to get his Level I tracking certification and frankly, he'd be a better tracker if I'd put more effort into it.

Some of you remember Kirk Vaughn who passed away last Fall; his dog Mac was a mixed breed beagle who was a great tracker. And I've read threads on this very Forum of other hunters who have been successful recovering wound deer with their "untrained mutt".

The only tip I have on getting a tracking dog would be: get one of the smaller breeds. I've found out through hard experience that it's no fun getting pulled through briers by a long-legged dog that's hot on a scent! If I were to get another tracking dog it would be something short-legged, like a dachshund, jag terrier or small beagle.
 
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bowhuntingrook

Old Mossy Horns
ECU_Pirate

I really wouldn't know which direction to point as to which small dogs will suit your needs, a Drahthaar would be a cheaper large dog. If your emphasis is on blood tracking you can look for any nose oriented dog with enough prey drive that it will help them focus on wounded deer, and not run healthy deer. Stray dogs can be good for this as they know how to find food and track for food, not necessarily fun. You have to train no matter what dog you have. One of the best, if not the best tracking team in the state was Kirk and his beagle mix Mac.

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Triggernosis

Ten Pointer
Thanks for all the info!

This seems like something I might be Interested in. Only have a home/yard that can support small dogs and would love to train a dog since my dad used to train our dogs for duck hunting. I don't hunt much anymore but I would love to do something with a dog outside. Used to love seeing how happy our boykins were when they were doing what they were bred for.

Thay being said I can't afford to drop top dollar on a puppy. What are some breeds you would recommend that do well at this sport?
Purchase John Jeanenney's book "Tracking Dogs for Finding Wounded Deer" and it will get you started. He discusses all breeds.
Many breeds do well at tracking, some better than others under different conditions. For example, a bloodhound is probably one of the best "cold" trackers, but you wouldn't necessarily want to try to hang onto a bloodhound as he drags you through an eastern N.C. pocosin and cat-briars, whereas a teckel (wire-haired dachsund) would excel at that but may not pick up on sent as cold as a bloodhound would. Labrador retrievers do very well.

Edit: I see others have already responded similarly to me. Any dog will work - some just better than others in certain conditions.
 

bowhuntingrook

Old Mossy Horns
Purchase John Jeanenney's book "Tracking Dogs for Finding Wounded Deer" and it will get you started. He discusses all breeds.
Many breeds do well at tracking, some better than others under different conditions. For example, a bloodhound is probably one of the best "cold" trackers, but you wouldn't necessarily want to try to hang onto a bloodhound as he drags you through an eastern N.C. pocosin and cat-briars, whereas a teckel (wire-haired dachsund) would excel at that but may not pick up on sent as cold as a bloodhound would. Labrador retrievers do very well.
This^^^^ book is a must have for both dog trackers and hunters. Johns experience in tracking with dogs has allowed him to find more deer with a dog then any person could without one. How many times have people just assumed a deer has lived because they couldn't find it, well he's tracked past that point and found them many many times. Basically he has learned so much about deer behavior after the shot since he has used dogs to find them and therefore has tracked them further then sight tracking ever could. He is a humble man and great story teller.

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ECU_Pirate

Eight Pointer
Thanks guys. The Teckel seems like the dog that would fit my needs. We have a decent size home and a small yard. My wife loves dogs that can hang out on the couch/laps with us. Right now we have miniature schnauzer. He is about 19lbs, taller and bigger than average for his breed. We wont be getting another dog till he passes. Which could be 8-10 years, he is super healthy. Im always looking into different breeds for what i might get next. I like the idea of blood tracking. Seems like pretty straight forward training from what ive read.
 

bowhuntingrook

Old Mossy Horns
Dogs are long term commitments as you know. The initial cost of obtaining healthiest dogs possible can work in your favor over the long run, you decrease odds of disease or joint/vision problems. Price wise, I just got email from Jolanta Jeanneney the other day regarding 2 litters being born this year, $3000 each. That's more then I've ever paid and it's more then she charged 2 years ago. She doesn't do it for money, she does it more to deter people who aren't serious and to cover the costs she has accrued picking, importing and raising her dogs. She doesn't pick people in the order on her wait-list, she picks the best hunting/tracking homes and will require face to face meeting to pick up dog in NY, and at that time she still reserves the right to say no and has before. This is top breeder in country.
If you follow some FB tracking pages or at least the UBT FB page you can start to see who uses them and their prices. Shouldn't be as much but I don't know. Couple breeders in Canada too.

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ECU_Pirate

Eight Pointer
Wire haired and teckle are the same dog right?

I'm not looking for a champion pedigree. I wouldnt be that serious about tracking. Would probably never take to a competition. Just practice in the neighborhood Creek/woods and help out a friend track a deer here and there.
 

bowhuntingrook

Old Mossy Horns
Wire haired and teckle are the same dog right?

I'm not looking for a champion pedigree. I wouldnt be that serious about tracking. Would probably never take to a competition. Just practice in the neighborhood Creek/woods and help out a friend track a deer here and there.
If the parents haven't went through the German tests and registry, and a breed warden has not looked over the litter prior to selling the puppies, they will be considered a WHD, not a Teckel. I have one of each, Cooper's sire was purchased in Germany and brought over, he also passed German tests but the female was from same breeder and born in US, did not do German tests or registry, just AKC FC. So Cooper is technically a WHD, but his DNA is no different then the teckels in his pedigree.

14 week dog I got is Teckel, female passed German tests and is German registry, was flown to Germany and bred with another teckel and returned home where she had 4 pups. Breed warden flew from out of country, looked over litter at airport and I got pup a week later. He would have a tattoo in his ear showing this but they don't do that anymore.

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ECU_Pirate

Eight Pointer
If the parents haven't went through the German tests and registry, and a breed warden has not looked over the litter prior to selling the puppies, they will be considered a WHD, not a Teckel. I have one of each, Cooper's sire was purchased in Germany and brought over, he also passed German tests but the female was from same breeder and born in US, did not do German tests or registry, just AKC FC. So Cooper is technically a WHD, but his DNA is no different then the teckels in his pedigree.

14 week dog I got is Teckel, female passed German tests and is German registry, was flown to Germany and bred with another teckel and returned home where she had 4 pups. Breed warden flew from out of country, looked over litter at airport and I got pup a week later. He would have a tattoo in his ear showing this but they don't do that anymore.

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Gotcha.

Then a WHD for me 😁.
 

bowhuntingrook

Old Mossy Horns
Any of the various dachsunds should work well also, I would think - long hair, short hair, wire hair.
Yes, and some wirehaired look like smooth coat and will be in same litter as ones with lots of furnishings, its just how the alleles for furnishings align

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