Canada Goose NE hunt zone

Gus

Four Pointer
Is there anyone here connected enough explain the reasoning behind continuing the ridiculous restrictions on shooting geese in NE NC? I know it was supposed to protect and rebuild the migratory AP Mattamuskeet goose flock. After 20 some years of heavy restrictions, how that's working out? Lemme go out on a limb and guess not so great.
Meanwhile I see Pasquotank County is investing $25 grand to oil goose eggs in a goose eradication program. Several years ago the Feds killed 800 geese in Dare Co. because they were eating out the impoundments. Just a couple examples- there are plenty of others.
So we're doing our level best to eradicate thousands of Canada Geese, that hunters would love to hunt/shoot but cannot because the hunters could possibly, in theory, shoot one of the remaining nine mythical " AP Mattamuskeet Canada Geese" that show up only when the sound freezes.
C'mon Man, that's just piss poor management.
 

Duckmauler dhc

Eight Pointer
I wonder the same freaking thing. But that is nc for ya. I swear this stupid state comes up with the dumbest ideas known to man regarding anything outdoor related. During my short time in that part of the state this year I saw more Canada’s than anything else and they’re always there. I remember a few years ago hunting the chowan and having geese all over me, thousands of residents and wondering why in the world we still have this restriction and then try to eradicate them. We’ve all but eradicated any Canada’s in nc. In the piedmont I used to long for september to hunt geese. Haven’t killed a goose in September I’m 10 years now. If we have a good outdoor resource here the state will do whatever they can to screw it up.
 

woodmoose

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aven’t killed a goose in September I’m 10 years now.

they are still there,,,just moved to urban ponds and golf courses,,,,they learn to avoid hunting fairly well

there are plenty of migrators in the NE corners,,,have killed one or two in my few hunts up that way during Jan season,,,,that is what they are protecting
 

woodmoose

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So we're doing our level best to eradicate thousands of Canada Geese, that hunters would love to hunt/shoot

got all of Sept to "hunt/shoot" them resident geese that are the focus of the egg oiling, etc
 

JONOV

Twelve Pointer
they are still there,,,just moved to urban ponds and golf courses,,,,they learn to avoid hunting fairly well

there are plenty of migrators in the NE corners,,,have killed one or two in my few hunts up that way during Jan season,,,,that is what they are protecting
^^Yep, I'm not sure but it may be considered a separate subspecies?
 

Mr.Gadget

Old Mossy Horns
And to think....
Hard to find a place that will let you shoot them yet everyplace will tell you they have too many and want them dead.....

For some reason in Halifax county we just dont have numbers on them to hunt.
Maybe a few flocks a year in range.
 

Gus

Four Pointer
they are still there,,,just moved to urban ponds and golf courses,,,,they learn to avoid hunting fairly well

there are plenty of migrators in the NE corners,,,have killed one or two in my few hunts up that way during Jan season,,,,that is what they are protecting
What are you basing your "plenty of migrators in the NE corner" theory on? I've hunted this corner hard for forty years and for the last twenty I've seen very few Canadas I thought might even possibly be migrators- unless it gets cold enough to freeze the sound (once a decade).
Unless the goose is banded no real way to know whether it's migratory or not.
Why should we only be able to shoot them in Sept? Does anybody really think this 'special flock' migrates in here in Oct. anymore, if they ever did?
And if this special flock actually exists anymore, and deserves so much protection, why has NY been allowed to kill 3 a day, virtually all season long, for decades? Why has Maryland been allowed 2 a day virtually all season long ( down recently from 4 a day) for decades? Evidently they aint special till they cross the NC line.
 

woodmoose

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What are you basing your "plenty of migrators in the NE corner" theory on?

personal anecdotal observations and discussions with friends,,,that is all

for the rest of your post - guess you should petition the NCWRC and USFWS for a season extension since you know more than they do,,,,
 
Other states have implemented changes similar to that of MD but not quite as restrictive - NY and PA went from 3 bird to 2 bird limits and a 30 day season. I imagine this, along with MD's changes will continue for the next couple years from what I've read. Hopefully has a positive impact on the overall AP population given the breeding issues from 2018.
 

Roanoke

Six Pointer
A goose is a lazy bird. They do not like to migrate unless that have to in order to find food. I heard about the Currituck Airport gasing a good amount of birds. Currituck means Land of the Wild Goose!
Sustainable hunting is the correct solution and It benefits everyone.
 
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Gus

Four Pointer
personal anecdotal observations and discussions with friends,,,that is all

for the rest of your post - guess you should petition the NCWRC and USFWS for a season extension since you know more than they do,,,,
NCWRC and USFWS say the NC migratory goose population has declined 95% over the last 60 years.
You know something they don't?

I got nothing against protections for the flock- if they work. Restrictions have been in place for a looong time in NC and the flock is still declining. Try something else.
Close Dec and Jan goose completely- those months would be the riskiest for migrators imo. Make Nov a 1 goose per day month with permit, just to be sure you mostly cover any odd early migrators. Sept and Oct are resident months. Win for the migratory geese, win for hunters, win for the goose eradication folks.
 

Roanoke

Six Pointer
We did get a good amount of migratory geese the second of week of January in 2017. That was the year we had 10 days when it did not get above freezing during the day. I have notes in my log book about big migrations of geese that arrived throughout North Eastern NC. Up and down 64 you would see big flocks. They went back North a few days later after it warmed up.

I do not understand why the Feds do not close down the Atlantic Brant season in NC. They are dumber than Swans and we have about killed all of them.
 
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Gus

Four Pointer
For the record it has been a LONG time since MD had a 4 bird season.
Yeah you're right-1986 they dropped to a 3/2 limit depending on where in the state.
In 1990 (30 yrs ago) NC had an 11 day season with a bag limit of 1. NY had a 90 day season with 3 and Md had 60 days at 2.
They've adjusted season length, start dates, and limits in the 30yrs since but the general model of seasons at least twice as long and limits twice as big for those states hadnt changed until Md bag dropped to 1 this year.
A helluva lot more of the NC flock have been killed up there than in NC.
 

dobber

Twelve Pointer
The birds just aren't flying south like they used to, lack of some really good winters are holding birds North. Now before anyone jumps up and down about how the heck that information is credible, well i travel to Montreal from Windsor along the 401 corridor monthly. 2 weeks ago was my last trip i saw thousands upon thousands of geese, still flying to and fro from the St Lawrence into the harvested fields that are lacking any snow.
 

woodmoose

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NCWRC and USFWS say the NC migratory goose population has declined 95% over the last 60 years.
You know something they don't?
Did I say I did - no,,,,I'm not the one railing for season changes based on my anecdotal evidence

But I can see how you misunderstood as I was not clear in my comms,,,

my "plenty of migrators" was referring to plenty for there to be a 2 week(ish) season with a permit limit,,,if there wasn't, I trust them to canx the season,,,

I got nothing against protections for the flock- if they work. Restrictions have been in place for a looong time in NC and the flock is still declining. Try something else.
Close Dec and Jan goose completely- those months would be the riskiest for migrators imo. Make Nov a 1 goose per day month with permit, just to be sure you mostly cover any odd early migrators. Sept and Oct are resident months. Win for the migratory geese, win for hunters, win for the goose eradication folks.

have you studied this (band collection data, migration data, etc) or you tootin' anecdotal evidence should Trump (yeap, did that) the biologists, etc?
 

Roanoke

Six Pointer
Thirty years ago the big craze was Geese hunting in North Eastern NC. Now is popular in Western NC. I was ten years old when I killed my first duck. I was big water Geese hunting with my Dad and his best friend. I water slapped a Drake Pintail and got in trouble because I flared a flock of geese they were working.

We have places on the South side of Roanoke where we can hunt Geese and sometimes have good amounts. Problem is that people always choose to hunt ducks over geese.
I enjoy hunting Geese. When you get into calling them you learn that they have a lot more vocabulary that a duck. It is hard to read their wing pattern but you can interpret what they are going to do from their calling.
 

shurshot

Six Pointer
It’s a shame most of you guys missed out on them in the 70’s and 80’s when there actually were enough birds around to commercially field hunt them. Mattamuskeet was my go to and we absolutely momicked the birds. Then the birds started short stopping and the rest is history. Consensus back then was the change over from row crops here and the expansion of them there in the DelMarVa peninsula. I’m sure weather played a big part too but I don’t remember it being moderate for any length of years.

I think food availability above all else is the main reason for the decades long short stopping. Look what’s happened to La. The big time waterfowl operations that have sprung up over time in Missouri, Ohio, Arkansas, etc. that not only feed the birds but set aside resting/refuge areas for them too has caused many a bird to set up their winter residence. Take Habitat Flats for example. Tony Vandimore started that business from scratch. What he has done over the years is basically created his own private refuge. He HOLDS tens of thousands of ducks annually. There are many other places that collectively are doing the same thing. Short of an ice age freeze up, these birds have established a new wintering home and don’t need to migrate any further than necessary. Better all around habitat up there than down here ...
 

woodmoose

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along with changing land use, factor in changes in migration patterns due to shifting magnetic fields and you have birfs where they weren't 40 years ago, and fewer where there used to be a lot
 

dobber

Twelve Pointer
along with changing land use, factor in changes in migration patterns due to shifting magnetic fields and you have birfs where they weren't 40 years ago, and fewer where there used to be a lot
This is a huge game changer, it is truly amazing how the geese change their migration patterns. I used to live in a little town that had very few ducks and geese, after a number of years it is one of those places that a true duck/goose aficionado would recognize, certainly one of the most coveted bands to get.
 

Gus

Four Pointer
Did I say I did - no,,,,I'm not the one railing for season changes based on my anecdotal evidence



But I can see how you misunderstood as I was not clear in my comms,,,

my "plenty of migrators" was referring to plenty for there to be a 2 week(ish) season with a permit limit,,,if there wasn't, I trust them to canx the season.




have you studied this (band collection data, migration data, etc) or you tootin' anecdotal evidence should Trump (yeap, did that) the biologists, etc?
Never said I did either. I asked if anyone connected to the program could explain why the restrictions continue.

Fair enough

USFWS did a ton of studies, collar tracking, etc on their 'red wolf' too-
What they know, and what they tell us / put in their management plans are often two different things.
 
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coachcornbread

Four Pointer
It’s a shame most of you guys missed out on them in the 70’s and 80’s when there actually were enough birds around to commercially field hunt them. Mattamuskeet was my go to and we absolutely momicked the birds. Then the birds started short stopping and the rest is history. Consensus back then was the change over from row crops here and the expansion of them there in the DelMarVa peninsula. I’m sure weather played a big part too but I don’t remember it being moderate for any length of years.

I think food availability above all else is the main reason for the decades long short stopping. Look what’s happened to La. The big time waterfowl operations that have sprung up over time in Missouri, Ohio, Arkansas, etc. that not only feed the birds but set aside resting/refuge areas for them too has caused many a bird to set up their winter residence. Take Habitat Flats for example. Tony Vandimore started that business from scratch. What he has done over the years is basically created his own private refuge. He HOLDS tens of thousands of ducks annually. There are many other places that collectively are doing the same thing. Short of an ice age freeze up, these birds have established a new wintering home and don’t need to migrate any further than necessary. Better all around habitat up there than down here ...
100% spot on.
 

Gus

Four Pointer
It’s a shame most of you guys missed out on them in the 70’s and 80’s when there actually were enough birds around to commercially field hunt them. Mattamuskeet was my go to and we absolutely momicked the birds. Then the birds started short stopping and the rest is history. Consensus back then was the change over from row crops here and the expansion of them there in the DelMarVa peninsula. I’m sure weather played a big part too but I don’t remember it being moderate for any length of years.

I think food availability above all else is the main reason for the decades long short stopping. Look what’s happened to La. The big time waterfowl operations that have sprung up over time in Missouri, Ohio, Arkansas, etc. that not only feed the birds but set aside resting/refuge areas for them too has caused many a bird to set up their winter residence. Take Habitat Flats for example. Tony Vandimore started that business from scratch. What he has done over the years is basically created his own private refuge. He HOLDS tens of thousands of ducks annually. There are many other places that collectively are doing the same thing. Short of an ice age freeze up, these birds have established a new wintering home and don’t need to migrate any further than necessary. Better all around habitat up there than down here ...
Last true goose migration I saw was in 1984. Sound was froze so hard folks were driving 4 wheelers on it.
The geese were moving south in huge waves as far as I could see looking east and west. Couldn't even begin to estimate how many. I remember thinking "that's gotta be ever goose in North America".
Awesome sight.
 

woodmoose

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in 1984. Sound was froze so hard folks were driving 4 wheelers on it.
bet the site of those geese was cool

I know a polar vortex hit in January 1985 but it was only few days, not enough to freeze any body of water

I was on a Caribean island (deployed from Fort Bragg) in Jan and Feb 1984 and I am sure my Girlfriend at the time (and now my wife) would have bent my ears in letters on the cold weather if it was that bad but she was inland not on the coast

there is a good read out there about the "Big Freeze" of 1910 - 1911,,,they talked about the sound freezing then, as well as rivers, creeks, etc
 

Gus

Four Pointer
Ha, made me dig out the huntin log.
You're right- it was actually Jan of the 84-85 season. Jan 19th-22nd never got above 20°, was single digits most of that period. NWS station recorded -2 at Manteo on the 21st , lowest ever. Not sure how Pamlico fared but Currituck was solid.
 
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Clark

Six Pointer
Pamlico was frozen from South Creek to Cedar Island that I know of. Found a small patch of open water, killed some ducks! One of my favorite memories!
 
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woodmoose

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You're right- it was actually Jan of the 84-85 season. Jan 19th-22nd

yeap,,,that was that vortex,,,,I was on Okinawa and had just flown back to Oki from NC after visiting with my fiance and her family,,,,,
 
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