Buying land???

Helium

Old Mossy Horns
Looking for advice and experiences on buying land. I’m just a simple guy… BUT trying to think larger and plan for future (I’m already behind).

suppose I wanted to buy 15 to 30 acres for hunting (hunt cabin) and possible future home. My thoughts are to buy, cut timber on 1/2 or more of it, use the $ to recoup the down payment and invest into land layoutof fields, storage building revamped into a cabin etc.

No idea on how any of that works besides what I’ve read on the net
 

ddavenport

Six Pointer
Contributor
One problem that you might run into if you finance the purchase. The bank will most likely require you to pay down some or all of the proceeds of a timber sale on the note.
 

nchawkeye

Old Mossy Horns
One of the obstacles you are going to run into is if you want to buy in Cabarrus, Union or Stanley Counties is going to be the high prices...It is very hard to justify what land goes for in that area for hunting or farming...You will find cheaper land in southern Davidson or Randolph or in Moore and Montgomery Counties...
 

ellwoodjake

Twelve Pointer
With the price of timber right now, don't expect to recoup too much. Especially for 50 acres or less. Most loggers wouldn't even move equipment for it.
 

DFisher

Eight Pointer
If you cut timber, and want the trash cleaned up afterwards, you will break even at best. You might get a little cash if you let them leave the mess, but is that what you really want?
 

josh

Old Mossy Horns
Contributor
Lot of variables and it will depend on the type of timber on the tract, age class, location etc etc

Your line of thinking isn’t wrong though, even if local stumpage prices are low or The timber isn’t ready to cut right now you can manage for when it will be time to cut if you can be patient and recoup some of the intial purchase cost.

Your best bet will be to consult with a forester to find out the best options for the tract.
 

lasttombstone

Kinder, Gentler LTS
I read an article, "All You Survey", in the latest NRA magazine, American Hunter. It was about a couple buying a piece of land and the questions they asked themselves before even looking for a place. A very interesting read. My case was a little different. I wanted to stay in NC, I wanted at least 100 ac. that I could afford. That was my only criteria. Granted, this was 25 years ago and it took me 5 years of looking but I found, for us, the ideal place. Patience and having money saved was the key. Good luck.
 

2nd Calling

Six Pointer
Did what you are proposing, yes there was a bit of a mess...but I cleaned up my trails with a forestry mulcher. Then either a chainsaw and some sweat or a good prescribed fire made short work of the rest. It's definitely a process, just depends on whether you want to pay for it or use some muscle.
 

hot_rod_eddie

Six Pointer
One thing to think about is forest exemption on taxes. My exemption cut my assessed tax valve by 75%. If you cut too much wood you won't qualify. May could get another exemption though.
 

Lakeview Bear

Ten Pointer
Contributor
One thing to think about is forest exemption on taxes. My exemption cut my assessed tax valve by 75%. If you cut too much wood you won't qualify. May could get another exemption though.
If you are talking about Present Use, its not an exemption, its a deferment of taxes. As soon as you exit the program three years worth of that 75% your aren't paying every year will be billed. Its a good program if you plan on staying in it.
 

BengalTiger

Six Pointer
The size parcel you are looking to buy is what most of my buyers are also looking. With a lot of people now able to work remotely, the 10-30 acre parcels are in high demand as people are buying and moving from the concrete jungle to the country. So that size parcel is a higher price per acre than say a 75-100 acre parcel. I would get as much land as you could afford as you may could get a larger parcel for the overall same price as a smaller parcel. Like it has been mentioned already, if you finance it you would have to go through Ag Farm Credit or something like them and their terms are typically not as good as a regular bank on a typical home loan.
 

Sonic

Spike
Great thread, I am in a somewhat similar position. My question, and I hope I am not hijacking the thread, is whether there are buyer's agents for this type of purchase? I do not know what I do not know about raw land, aside from "yep, that'd be a good place to hunt and hang-out" I have thought the same thing about whether there is any return on investment (financially) from timbering, what are the costs for cutting access to property if there is no current road system, etc. Is this a buy and learn type deal, or is there a better answer?
 

appmtnhntr

Twelve Pointer
Looking for advice and experiences on buying land. I’m just a simple guy… BUT trying to think larger and plan for future (I’m already behind).

suppose I wanted to buy 15 to 30 acres for hunting (hunt cabin) and possible future home. My thoughts are to buy, cut timber on 1/2 or more of it, use the $ to recoup the down payment and invest into land layoutof fields, storage building revamped into a cabin etc.

No idea on how any of that works besides what I’ve read on the net
Talk to lots of people in the biz. Timber dudes and realtors.
Find money that’s cheaper than market and properties that aren’t on market.

There’s a lot of money and a lot of opportunities out there right now, but you still have to be astute.
Value is different than cost.
 

appmtnhntr

Twelve Pointer
Talk to lots of people in the biz. Timber dudes and realtors.
Find money that’s cheaper than market and properties that aren’t on market.

There’s a lot of money and a lot of opportunities out there right now, but you still have to be astute.
Value is different than cost.
There are many “off-market” transactions that happen every day between likeminded people. My neighbor will eventually sell me his spread for a fraction of “market” but im only allowed to add two more homesites.

Fine by me. I need a place for when our parents get old. Also want a badass off grid
Cabin on top of the hill that doubles as a shoot house
 

para4514

Eight Pointer
Contributor
If you are talking about Present Use, its not an exemption, its a deferment of taxes. As soon as you exit the program three years worth of that 75% your aren't paying every year will be billed. Its a good program if you plan on staying in it.
And an interest penalty. Also, if the tract is not already in PUV, you do not own another tract in PUV or your primary residence is not on the property, there will be a 4 year ownership tenure that has to be met before it can be enrolled.

There is starting to be a bit more demand for fuel chips in the southern piedmont and a couple more crews are running chippers. This can really help make a harvest more appealing, but acreage, timber quality and location are going to dictate the feasibility of what you are proposing. Road work that is "needed" as part of a timber harvest can be paid out of timber receipts, reducing taxation on timber revenue. Several cost share programs are available to help offset costs of management.

The times I have seen this approach work is when the buyer has cash to purchase (or major down payment), no contingents and short closing to sweeten the deal. My wife and I happened on a 130 acre tract about 2 years ago that the timber would have just about paid for the tract. It was a bit more than we could bite off at the time and neither of us wanted to live in the middle of a cutover or pine plantation. This parcel is now broken up in 7 to 27 acre tracts priced at about $8,000 per acre.

We ended up with 40 acres, enrolled in PUV, just got our tree farm certification and a thinning crew with a chipper will be moving in next week. The plan is to apply this fall for funding to install fire line, prescribed burn, apply some herbicide and plant native soft mast shrubs. It won't pay for itself, but will give us a place to manage as we want.
 

beard&bow

Twelve Pointer
Contributor
Looking for advice and experiences on buying land. I’m just a simple guy… BUT trying to think larger and plan for future (I’m already behind).

suppose I wanted to buy 15 to 30 acres for hunting (hunt cabin) and possible future home. My thoughts are to buy, cut timber on 1/2 or more of it, use the $ to recoup the down payment and invest into land layoutof fields, storage building revamped into a cabin etc.

No idea on how any of that works besides what I’ve read on the net

If you buy land that is fenced in (or buy land and fence it in) with the intent to put animals on it, you can apply for deferment for agricultural use.

Each county is different. There are acreage minimums for fenced land, as there are timber stands.
 
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Deerhuntr

Ten Pointer
In Southeastern NC land is outrageously priced now especially if it’s got some decent acreage not in the floodplain.
 

30/06

Twelve Pointer
Great thread. I just bought some land in Person. Will be putting a house on it eventually and will need to research this more. Plan now, subject to change, is clear cut some of the hill tops to turn into fields and select cut the slopes and bottoms leaving oaks. Hopefully I can do this as a break even. Need to research the forestry management program but that doesn’t apply until 4 years of ownership or until we live there. Most of the tract is mature hardwood and softwood.

Welcome thoughts on this? Don’t want a tangled mess after it’s cut. Hopefully timber prices will come up.
 

para4514

Eight Pointer
Contributor
Great thread. I just bought some land in Person. Will be putting a house on it eventually and will need to research this more. Plan now, subject to change, is clear cut some of the hill tops to turn into fields and select cut the slopes and bottoms leaving oaks. Hopefully I can do this as a break even. Need to research the forestry management program but that doesn’t apply until 4 years of ownership or until we live there. Most of the tract is mature hardwood and softwood.

Welcome thoughts on this? Don’t want a tangled mess after it’s cut. Hopefully timber prices will come up.
Don't overlook the Wildlife Conservation Lands Program. It might be a good fit for folks who don't want to manage to the production level generally prescribed in a Forest Management Plan. ncwildlife.org/WCLP
 

Vannoyboy

Eight Pointer
Right now in my area logging crews are scarce and sawmills can't get enough laborers to process the timber they own themselves. You will need to have a pre arranged buyer and perspective logging crew lined up in advance if you are going to need timber money to help out in the near future. Timber prices are high (right now) but expected to come down by the end of the year.
 

bag12day

Six Pointer
Contributor
One thing to think about is forest exemption on taxes. My exemption cut my assessed tax valve by 75%. If you cut too much wood you won't qualify. May could get another exemption though.
That’s not entirely correct... contact your county forester. My property was enrolled in an ag and forest program and I went straight forestry even though I told him I had no desire to timber much unless it improved wildlife. He said not cutting anything is a forestry plan and a plan can be not to do anything but natural growth. If you cut planted pines and allow it to regenerate without planting anything that’s a plan. I have some parts clears 25 years ago and some cut back in the mid 1800s
 
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